Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Chaserr]

Just don't buy any new LR tesla. If this thread teaches you nothing else, it should make it clear that LR upgrades are wasted money if you consider them purchased goods because they'll just take it back. But if you consider the longer range upgrades a temporary capacity rental with a hidden expiration date you're going in with your eyes open.

Used cars are more likely to kill you parking in your garage at night, if insinuations that these decreases are attempts to conceal safety flaws have merit. The flaws seem to be age related but Tesla is imposing them on newer CPO cars proactively as well.

 

[Brass Guy]

I've read this whole thread (difficult to keep up!), mostly avoided posting since it grows too quickly. But a thought occurred to me recently.

A few (thousand) posts ago there was a lot of argument about how many cars this affected, how many people are on TMC, only people with the problem post, bla bla bla... but I wonder: How many owners might not even know they have a reduction in range? There seems to be a substantial number of owners who leave their range display on Energy (rather than Distance) who will see they successfully charged to 90%. I think the phone app shows the value you've selected as well. Would the reduction still be obvious to those owners, or are they likely oblivious?

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

I've read this whole thread (difficult to keep up!), mostly avoided posting since it grows too quickly. But a thought occurred to me recently.

A few (thousand) posts ago there was a lot of argument about how many cars this affected, how many people are on TMC, only people with the problem post, bla bla bla... but I wonder: How many owners might not even know they have a reduction in range? There seems to be a substantial number of owners who leave their range display on Energy (rather than Distance) who will see they successfully charged to 90%. I think the phone app shows the value you've selected as well. Would the reduction still be obvious to those owners, or are they likely oblivious?

They are likely oblivious, unless they do long distance trips and they record or take note of the percentage they had when they got to their destination(s) or charging points and compare them with the current ones.

I use percentage and until now i was not GREATLY affected with reduction range (about 6 or 7 km at 90% charge), but the charging rate at SuCs.... literally sucks!
It take as lot more time to charge.

 

[Droschke]

I've read this whole thread (difficult to keep up!), mostly avoided posting since it grows too quickly. But a thought occurred to me recently.

A few (thousand) posts ago there was a lot of argument about how many cars this affected, how many people are on TMC, only people with the problem post, bla bla bla... but I wonder: How many owners might not even know they have a reduction in range? There seems to be a substantial number of owners who leave their range display on Energy (rather than Distance) who will see they successfully charged to 90%. I think the phone app shows the value you've selected as well. Would the reduction still be obvious to those owners, or are they likely oblivious?

I would say if those owners (the ones who use % instead of RM) don't drive that much they probably won't know if they are capped.

 

[BigNick]

GM literally let people die to save a few cents on ignition switches. They are pretty low on the company ethics scale IMHO.

Don’t believe everything the news reports about this.

 

[azred]

They have a fix for this now. I have an appointment this monday 9/16 to get it fix. They are using some UV machine so let's hope it works for the long haul and just a quick fix. Call your service center.

I know about the “fix.” Fingers crossed it holds up long term because just as big range drops discussed in this thread have resale consequences, so will having the most eye catching feature of our cars looking like a failing 1960 color tv. I expect a lot of thumbs down to my earlier post but I think it is absurd for anyone to say they will never buy a Tesla unless the 85 range issue is resolved to the satisfaction of current owners. I mentioned Chevrolet and Ralph Nader, I could have mentioned VW and their “emissions gate” as examples of the absurdity of only buying from ethical manufacturers. There are none. They are businesses with profit as their overriding concern.

Do I think Tesla should do something about the range issue and the yellow stripe screen issue? Of course I do. I am very unhappy every time I drive my S and have to look at the yellow stripe. But I also understand the company is trying to figure out how to solve these issues and others without bankruptcy. Should I get another new screen and should people in this thread all get new batteries? I don’t know but I also know I have faced similar issues with other cars and never did get satisfaction. A good example was my beautiful 1997 Porsche 911/993.

One of the most appreciating used cars today is the 911/993 Porsche built from 1995-98. Virtually every one of the 1996-1998 cars sold in USA will throw repeated check engine lights for the so-called SAI issue. (1995 doesn’t show the fault since it was OBD1 and that version of OBD doesn’t detect it.) You can easily find literally hundreds of posts in various forums about the issue and the only “help” Porsche ever offered was an extremely expensive top end rebuild, even though the problem was clearly a design defect in all cars built to meet US emissions standards. Should I now boycott Porsche for future car purchases? I guess the poster who I responded to would probably quickly say yes. I don’t think it is that simple.

 

[Droschke]

I know about the “fix.” Fingers crossed it holds up long term because just as big range drops discussed in this thread have resale consequences, so will having the most eye catching feature of our cars looking like a failing 1960 color tv. I expect a lot of thumbs down to my earlier post but I think it is absurd for anyone to say they will never buy a Tesla unless the 85 range issue is resolved to the satisfaction of current owners. I mentioned Chevrolet and Ralph Nader, I could have mentioned VW and their “emissions gate” as examples of the absurdity of only buying from ethical manufacturers. There are none. They are businesses with profit as their overriding concern.

Do I think Tesla should do something about the range issue and the yellow stripe screen issue? Of course I do. I am very unhappy every time I drive my S and have to look at the yellow stripe. But I also understand the company is trying to figure out how to solve these issues and others without bankruptcy. Should I get another new screen and should people in this thread all get new batteries? I don’t know but I also know I have faced similar issues with other cars and never did get satisfaction. A good example was my beautiful 1997 Porsche 911/993.

One of the most appreciating used cars today is the 911/993 Porsche built from 1995-98. Virtually every one of the 1996-1998 cars sold in USA will throw repeated check engine lights for the so-called SAI issue. (1995 doesn’t show the fault since it was OBD1 and that version of OBD doesn’t detect it.) You can easily find literally hundreds of posts in various forums about the issue and the only “help” Porsche ever offered was an extremely expensive top end rebuild, even though the problem was clearly a design defect in all cars built to meet US emissions standards. Should I now boycott Porsche for future car purchases? I guess the poster who I responded to would probably quickly say yes. I don’t think it is that simple.

Bad behavior should not be rewarded. If customers get screwed by a vendor they are totally justified to look elsewhere to shop. I thought that's universally understood.

 

[Droschke]

But I also understand the company is trying to figure out how to solve these issues and others without bankruptcy.

As it applies to the topic of this thread, what makes you sure that Tesla is trying to figure out how to solve this issue? The impacted owners certainly have no evidence, where does yours come from?

 

[azred]

As it applied to the topic of this thread, what makes you sure that Tesla is trying to figure out how to solve this issue? The impacted owners certainly have no evidence, where does yours come from?

You don’t think Tesla monitors this forum? In another life I was involved with legislative staff work. As one influential legislator once told me, if a few people show up a legislator’s door, he or she is concerned but not enough to do anything. But if a couple hundred show up, it is a crisis. I wouldn’t assume Tesla views the range issue or the yellow stripe issue as crises, but I think you vastly underestimate the power of scores of noisy customers. A 248 page thread here that is sure to continue to grow is at least on Tesla’s radar.

Jon McNeill probably would have posted in this thread if he was still at Tesla, as he did on other issues. I don’t know much about his successor but would think he or she has at least noticed and isn’t thrilled. (That’s a long way from handing out thousands of new batteries, of course.)

I only noticed this thread when scanning new posts this morning. Normally I wouldn’t have posted but the last and most visible post was from the Bolt owner and I didn’t like what he said.

I wish all of you owners who are fighting this issue the best of luck.

 

[electronblue]

Thank you for clarifying @Ferrycraigs. I completely disagree with your assertion that @wk057 somehow corrected the lack of a legal threat. Quite the opposite, I think his clarification clearly states his concern for Tesla’s legal action at the very least:

So while I can technically keep poking the bear on this by posting more information, revelations, and such... the bear has quite a few more teeth than I do (read: money and lawyers) if it decides to make my life miserable... and I have good reason to believe this particular bear will tolerate no further poking from me on this.

So, yes, I continue to believe it is at least plausible (we don't know) that @wk057 chose to silence himself because of threat or concern of legal action from Tesla.

In this scenario it seem possible he wanted to state he views is he within his legal rights to continue talking — but chooses not to because of fear of Tesla not tolerating more poking on this. I.e. the threat of a legal action would be silencing him.

 

[dhanson865]

The results of this thread/issue wouldn't stop me from buying a Tesla. But it might push me to buying used instead of new.

I can live with the shorter range / slower supercharging speeds so long as the price is lower as well.

Unlike other posters I'd lose no sleep parking it in my garage at night.

@Droschke to be clear I think anyone that bought new deserves better than me as a potential used car buyer. I totally support anyone that is upset about this as a new car buyer (including those that bought inventory, demo, or used cars directly from Tesla at a near new car price).

If you disagree on the putting it in my garage overnight comment then we'll just have to disagree.

 

[Chaserr]

You don’t think Tesla monitors this forum? In another life I was involved with legislative staff work. As one influential legislator once told me, if a few people show up a legislator’s door, he or she is concerned but not enough to do anything. But if a couple hundred show up, it is a crisis. I wouldn’t assume Tesla views the range issue or the yellow stripe issue as crises, but I think you vastly underestimate the power of scores of noisy customers. A 248 page thread here that is sure to continue to grow is at least on Tesla’s radar.

Jon McNeill probably would have posted in this thread if he was still at Tesla, as he did on other issues. I don’t know much about his successor but would think he or she has at least noticed and isn’t thrilled. (That’s a long way from handing out thousands of new batteries, of course.)

I only noticed this thread when scanning new posts this morning. Normally I wouldn’t have posted but the last and most visible post was from the Bolt owner and I didn’t like what he said.

I wish all of you owners who are fighting this issue the best of luck.

It's been half a year and Tesla is still not notifying us of safety risks or repairing the damaged batteries - all we know for certain right now is that we are permanently devalued and the best experts this forum has have implied there is danger.

What is the process for reporting defects to the NHTSA? If litigation is the only way Tesla responds, is File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA this the correct form to submit? A few hundred requests for an investigation should get their "crisis" attention and it seems like the nuclear option is the only way we will get any answers.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

As I said when I started posting here, I don't currently own a Tesla but I have a vested interest in this thread which is why I continue to follow what is happening and try to glean as much information as I can. I currently own a Bolt; love the car and it fits my needs for now but my plan is to pass that car down to my son and get a Model 3 in the next year to 18 months. Once the kids have left the nest and I only have to worry about my own insurance, I'd like a sportier car and had decided on the Model 3. Until this thread. Ultimately, how Tesla handles this situation will determine my next purchase. I've always been a Tesla fan but if they don't end up doing the right thing here, I absolutely will not be buying a Tesla of any kind. There will be more options by the time I'm ready. As unlikely as it may be and even with the improvements they've made with respect to the Model 3, I won't want to deal with a company that can just summarily decide to hobble my car and there's nothing I can do about it.

So yeah, I think this issue needs more light of day. Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

Mike

Well said. As a Model S owner who paid north of $100,000 in 2013 and dealt with all of the early adopter drama, I am watching Tesla's actions here very closely. I cancelled my Model 3 order around the time #batterygate started and when I personally experienced a warranty denial by my service center over a part they previously replaced under warranty three times. Tesla has decided, at the highest executive level, to make existing owners pay for Musk's corporate mismanagement.

Next year we will have options from Mercedes, Audi, and others. After seeing how Tesla is acting here, and witnessing some of the ways Tesla is denying bonafide warranty claims first hand, I can comfortably say that my next EV will likely not be a Tesla. Why the hell would I give more of my hard earned money to a company that treats customers this way, a company that doesn't honor its commitments? I'll gladly take my business to Mercedes and get a much higher quality car from the switch.

 

[First EV]

I texted the mobile service guy about my slow charging as we are taking a big trip soon. He said to keep track of dates and schedule an appointment. Have an appointment to address slow charging. Shall see what they say. So what was the charge gate update version?

 

[jaitch]

They have a fix for this now. I have an appointment this monday 9/16 to get it fix. They are using some UV machine so let's hope it works for the long haul and just a quick fix. Call your service center.

A member in the UK claims that this UV fix is misleading and they just replace the screen. Would be great if you can confirm the actual reality of this UV fix. I don't know why but I think that this is Teslia adding confusion again. If I can see a video of this super magic UV fix then I will be happy and will believe. Who does not want to be a believer!

 

[DJRas]

I texted the mobile service guy about my slow charging as we are taking a big trip soon. He said to keep track of dates and schedule an appointment. Have an appointment to address slow charging. Shall see what they say. So what was the charge gate update version?

I believe it was 2019.24.x mid-July

 

[Droschke]

You don’t think Tesla monitors this forum?

They probably did it in the past, but I doubts they do that these days anymore.

if a couple hundred show up, it is a crisis.

Not to Tesla so far, for all I know

I think you vastly underestimate the power of scores of noisy customers

The opposite. That's why we are here and keep going.

A 248 page thread here that is sure to continue to grow is at least on Tesla’s radar.

This issue is on their radar not because of 248 pages here now (or another 500 later), but because of the lawsuit.

Jon McNeill probably would have posted in this thread if he was still at Tesla, as he did on other issues. I don’t know much about his successor but would think he or she has at least noticed and isn’t thrilled. (That’s a long way from handing out thousands of new batteries, of course.)

The example of Jon McNeil's role in customer service belongs to the golden days when the customer satisfaction mattered. Things have changed since, FYI.

Nice chat.

 

[Droschke]

If you disagree on the putting it in my garage overnight comment then we'll just have to disagree.

Yes, that was it. Thanks for agreeing to disagree.

 

[qwk]

For what it’s worth, I was going to be software “upgraded” to 219.28 from 8.1 today because of battery contractor replacement. I was kind of excited to be a guinea pig in this debacle. I babied/monitored my pack for its entire life, so I was interested to see if it would have been neutered. It wasn’t meant to be, at least today. Car needs new main pack.

I received EXCELLENT service at the Service Center. It must be isolated to the employee/employees you deal with.

 

[Droschke]

For what it’s worth, I was going to be software “upgraded” to 219.28 from 8.1 today because of battery contractor replacement. I was kind of excited to be a guinea pig in this debacle. I babied/monitored my pack for its entire life, so I was interested to see if it would have been neutered. It wasn’t meant to be, at least today. Car needs new main pack.

I received EXCELLENT service at the Service Center. It must be isolated to the employee/employees you deal with.

My cap showed up after supercharging. Which Tesla model do you have?