Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Chaserr]

I do agree with @JRP3 that, if the concern was fires, then getting out a temporary fix to mitigate the immediate risk while they figure out the issue and a long term fix was the correct move. Heck, even if it done to prevent older packs from dying until they can get supply chain ramped up, it's somewhat defensible if the alternative is your car is out of commission for 6 months while they scramble to come up with a replacement pack.

What has not been acceptable is the lack of communications on the topic. It's not nice to gaslight your own customers. I can imagine how this was rationalized within the Tesla bunker, but I don't think they fully appreciate the damage they have done to the brand in the process.

If there was an NHTSA approved action taken he would be correct because that's how that sort of problem is always fixed. Since there wasn't any fix applied, the attempted coverup can't be a fix. It might be an attempt at saving more lives without fixing or reporting the problem but people like this Battery would still be in danger if there is an unreported fire problem. If Tesla is intentionally not fixing people like that means there isn't a fix, and the assumed "fix" is just a coverup.

MP3mike clicked to mark this post "read"

 

[Droschke]

Sorry, but I prefer to remain anonymous so I will not be sharing details about my cars that could be used to identify me or my vehicles. (I don't share my Tesla referral code with people I don't personally know either.)

And I don't know my cell voltage as I don't have any Android/iOS devices, or the dongle, to run the necessary software. (And I'm not concerned enough to bother to borrow the stuff.)

Understood. I respect your desire for anonymity. It all makes sense.

On Edit:
Is it part of that desire to use white fonts in the messages you post? What was that all about?

 

[omarsultan]

OK. May be it only works for that specific Home Depot in California. Well, may be the feature will roll out to other stores as well

I have this vision of the news reporting that suddenly Teslas are doing loops of Home Depot parking lots across the country for some strange reason...

 

[Chaserr]

We actually did things like that back when they used geofencing around service centers to trigger an update download!

Those were the days... we wanted updates, they improved things.

 

[JRP3]

I think you would agree that they should have done both.



That's not a fix. It's a band-aid. A workaround.

Of course, though it was a quick fix for the problem. Like plugging a tire on the side of the road is a quick fix but may not be a permanent fix. It is still useful in the moment.

 

[Chaserr]

Sorry, but I prefer to remain anonymous so I will not be sharing details about my cars that could be used to identify me or my vehicles. (I don't share my Tesla referral code with people I don't personally know either.)

And I don't know my cell voltage as I don't have any Android/iOS devices, or the dongle, to run the necessary software. (And I'm not concerned enough to bother to borrow the stuff.)

You don't own a phone in 2020? And you're concerned about privacy and won't disclose ownership of the car this forum exists to discuss, yet you give your name and location without hesitation? Hmmmm.

It's OK to just admit you don't have a Tesla. A lot of fans here don't. Lying isn't OK. You've never once had a problem in the Tesla you claimed to own, upgraded, photographed it, or needed service... that's simply not a possibility for Porsche owners. Our cars need service. \

Ownership isn't a requirement here, but deception makes people question why you're so disagreeable with tesla owners.

 

[JRP3]

I refuse to believe you. I kind of do - I haven't parked in my garage for 6 months - but I don't want to consciously choose to believe Tesla is trying to kill anyone to save some money or avoid doing paperwork.

It might be an attempt at saving more lives without fixing or reporting the problem

So despite pretending otherwise you actually do understand why taking quick action and not waiting for official channels to respond could have been the proper action. You talk about the way things are "always fixed" without recognizing that Tesla's are new and unusual vehicles with the ability to address some issues remotely and immediately with OTA updates.

 

[Chaserr]

So despite pretending otherwise you actually do understand why taking quick action and not waiting for official channels to respond could have been the proper action. You talk about the way things are "always fixed" without recognizing that Tesla's are new and unusual vehicles with the ability to address some issues remotely and immediately with OTA updates.

I understand you think 9 months is "quick" but lets be serious it's been almost a year. There was no "quick action" taken ever. We are discussing your hypothesis for Teslais still committing some of these massive crimes you've made accusations for after a considerable amount of time. There is no fix being discussed here, quick or delayed there has never been any fix disclosed or taken.

If you can prove me wrong post the relevant government documentation, please.

We've been robbed. You're suggesting the thief stole our wallet because it would kill us but we have no proof of that, all we have is proof of the robbing. If slapping the wallet out of my hand saved me why didn't the thief stick around and make a statement on the police report after the fact instead of fleeing the scene? Why does he still have my wallet?

 

[omarsultan]

I understand you think 9 months is "quick" but lets be serious it's been almost a year.

TBH, we don't have the basis to judge the time frame. There is a lot that needs to happen and many of the steps may have an indeterminate timeframe:

1. Awareness a problem exists (assume this is the parked car fires)
2. Figure out what happened - what was the failure mode
3. Develop, test and implement quick fix (SW update 16.x) -- this is the "fail safe"
4. Refine understanding of the root cause and failure modes
5. Develop, validate and deploy diagnostic testing for results for #4 (the infamous HV diagnostics just rolled out)
6. Develop and validate solution, first in-house then canary test with with small group of owners
7. Use the data from #5 to see if they can ease up on the restriction implemented in #3 - move from a shotgun to a rifle -- this eases up pressure on the subsequent steps
8. Develop replacement policy--because there are constraints with supply of replacement packs and resources at the service center (and maybe desire to avoid having a spike of warranty costs tank quarterly results), they need to figure out how to triage cars: at what point do we consider a pack flipped from ill to terminally ill, who gets priority, etc
9. Create and ramp supply chain (if needed)
10. Train service center on process and procedures
11. Wide deployment

It seems like we are around step 6.

 

[JRP3]

There is no fix being discussed here, quick or delayed there has never been any fix disclosed or taken.

Seems to me the permanent fix is replacing the battery packs which is happening. Maybe not at a speed of our liking but it is happening.

 

[MP3Mike]

You don't own a phone in 2020? And you're concerned about privacy and won't disclose ownership of the car this forum exists to discuss, yet you give your name and location without hesitation? Hmmmm.

I never said I didn't own a phone; I do but it is a Microsoft Windows phone. (Which, yeah, is no longer supported so I might have to replace it at some point, but at this point it does what I need which is calls, texts, and pictures.)

Well my real name isn't Mike and Oregon is pretty big, so I don't think I have compromised my privacy with that information.

It's OK to just admit you don't have a Tesla. A lot of fans here don't. Lying isn't OK. You've never once had a problem in the Tesla you claimed to own, upgraded, photographed it, or needed service... that's simply not a possibility for Porsche owners. Our cars need service. \

I, also, never said I haven't had a problem that required service from Tesla. I just don't think there is any point in sharing those details on TMC; it isn't like someone here is going to come over and fix things. I've had my issues with Tesla service and managed to resolve them without involving third parties.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

I never said I didn't own a phone; I do but it is a Microsoft Windows phone. (Which, yeah, is no longer supported so I might have to replace it at some point, but at this point it does what I need which is calls, texts, and pictures.)

Well my real name isn't Mike and Oregon is pretty big, so I don't think I have compromised my privacy with that information.



I, also, never said I haven't had a problem that required service from Tesla. I just don't think there is any point in sharing those details on TMC; it isn't like someone here is going to come over and fix things. I've had my issues with Tesla service and managed to resolve them without involving third parties.

 

[Chaserr]

We aren't even at step 1 yet! By law step 1 us report as soon as a potential issue is discovered it suspected. After this long, step 1 is still not fulfilled.

The time frame as enumerated in US law is to report within 5 days of discovery. Discovery was the day 2019.16 rolled out, or earlier. Tesla said in that "abundance of caution" press release the day if 2019.16s release that our "charge and thermal" revising (batterygate and chargegate) were their response to an ongoing internal investigation if fires. So, assuming they wrote the update that morning step 1 had to be disclosed 5 days later.

I don't know if I believe we will have the problem identified on its 1 year anniversary. I hope I'm incorrect but I don't think the investigation or suits will force action that quickly and Tesla's deceptions have gone on so long I doubt they will suddenly be honest without force.

Is the permanent fix a hardware replacement? Are we sure? How can we know we will ever be notified if we're forced to hope a criminal is doing the right thing without oversight?

Mp3mike marked this post "read"

 

[Droschke]

TBH, we don't have the basis to judge the time frame. There is a lot that needs to happen and many of the steps may have an indeterminate timeframe:

1. Awareness a problem exists (assume this is the parked car fires)
2. Figure out what happened - what was the failure mode
3. Develop, test and implement quick fix (SW update 16.x) -- this is the "fail safe"
4. Refine understanding of the root cause and failure modes
5. Develop, validate and deploy diagnostic testing for results for #4 (the infamous HV diagnostics just rolled out)
6. Develop and validate solution, first in-house then canary test with with small group of owners
7. Use the data from #5 to see if they can ease up on the restriction implemented in #3 - move from a shotgun to a rifle -- this eases up pressure on the subsequent steps
8. Develop replacement policy--because there are constraints with supply of replacement packs and resources at the service center (and maybe desire to avoid having a spike of warranty costs tank quarterly results), they need to figure out how to triage cars: at what point do we consider a pack flipped from ill to terminally ill, who gets priority, etc
9. Create and ramp supply chain (if needed)
10. Train service center on process and procedures
11. Wide deployment

It seems like we are around step 6.

Helpful. But you, as many vendors do in keeping up with the rule#1 of customer support, forgot to insert multiple steps of communicating the progress status with the customers!

 

[omarsultan]

We aren't even at step 1 yet! By law step 1 us report as soon as a potential issue is discovered it suspected. After this long, step 1 is still not fulfilled.

The time frame as enumerated in US law is to report within 5 days of discovery. Discovery was the day 2019.16 rolled out, or earlier. Tesla said in that "abundance of caution" press release the day if 2019.16s release that our "charge and thermal" revising (batterygate and chargegate) were their response to an ongoing internal investigation if fires. So, assuming they wrote the update that morning step 1 had to be disclosed 5 days later.

I don't know if I believe we will have the problem identified on its 1 year anniversary. I hope I'm incorrect but I don't think the investigation or suits will force action that quickly and Tesla's deceptions have gone on so long I doubt they will suddenly be honest without force.

Is the permanent fix a hardware replacement? Are we sure? How can we know we will ever be notified if we're forced to hope a criminal is doing the right thing without oversight?

Mp3mike marked this post "read"

Your base assumption is that there is an underlying safety issue. We don't know that. The result of the investigation of the two parked car fires *could* have been that those were corner cases from a safety perspective but in the process of poking around they discovered that battery capacity was degrading faster than expected (the conditions X and Z). A bunch of dead S85s by the side of the road because of degraded packs is a PR nightmare and a financial headache, but it is not a NHTSA/safety issue.

Is this a valid scenario? It fits the facts, but none of us really know and Tesla ain't talking.

 

[gmo43]

What fix?



That's it. Nothing has been fixed. Capping the customers' cars is not a fix. It's a band-aid.

It was in quotes because some people are saying that was a fix and we should be happy. Which is not a fix and instead pissed me off, sarcasm is lost in text. Haha

 

[omarsultan]

Helpful. But you, as many vendors do in keeping up with the rule#1 of customer support, forgot to insert multiple steps of communicating the progress status with the customers!

You remember this is Tesla we're talking about, right?

 

[gmo43]

You don't own a phone in 2020? And you're concerned about privacy and won't disclose ownership of the car this forum exists to discuss, yet you give your name and location without hesitation? Hmmmm.

It's OK to just admit you don't have a Tesla. A lot of fans here don't. Lying isn't OK. You've never once had a problem in the Tesla you claimed to own, upgraded, photographed it, or needed service... that's simply not a possibility for Porsche owners. Our cars need service. \

Ownership isn't a requirement here, but deception makes people question why you're so disagreeable with tesla owners.

Right! If it's not a concern, why does he keep commenting then?

 

[Droschke]

Right! If it's not a concern, why does he keep commenting then?

Spending tons of time and energy on a car forum siding with a dishonest vendor, disparaging the serious issues the other owners are facing and at the same time claiming to own the "vehicles" but not willing to talk about them is immensely suspicious. I must give an 'A' for the efforts.

 

[Droschke]

Your base assumption is that there is an underlying safety issue. We don't know that. The result of the investigation of the two parked car fires *could* have been that those were corner cases from a safety perspective but in the process of poking around they discovered that battery capacity was degrading faster than expected (the conditions X and Z). A bunch of dead S85s by the side of the road because of degraded packs is a PR nightmare and a financial headache, but it is not a NHTSA/safety issue.

Is this a valid scenario? It fits the facts, but none of us really know and Tesla ain't talking.

Omar - You are not serious by saying they capped the voltage because "they discovered that battery capacity was degrading faster than expected" without any safety factor being involved?