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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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No they didn't. We know for a fact that this is not true because we were not mailed a recall notice or informed in any way, which is the only legal response.
You're hung up on "legality". I'm simply stating that sending out an immediate fix was the best response, not mailing out legal but completely useless notices.

In order for action to be taken - and batterygate is an action - the NHTSA has to OK it and owners have to be informed. Failure to do so is illegal

Again you're more concerned with proper procedure and legality than actually protecting people. It seems you'd be happier if Tesla went the slower, "legal" route, and while NHTSA deliberated as to what to do people's cars were catching fire. We'll simply have to disagree on that one.
What you're saying is "Tesla is hiding a problem and hasn't reported it. I hope maybe nobody will be killed but we can only hope and pray that my guess bout their crimes are correct but that I'm wrong about the rest."
And what you're saying is "Tesla should have done nothing other than notify NHTSA, who would then take their sweet time deciding what if anything should be done, while vehicles caught fire and endangered people".

If Tesla did what you say they did, they are intentionally NOT taking action to address a high risk fatal flaw and are willing to break the law and continually put people in danger to save a few dollars.
Of course the opposite happened in reality, Tesla took action to protect people instead of starting a lot of paperwork which would have in fact delayed real action.

We know they didn't do anything to stop fires because, by law, they have to tell the NHTSA and us if they did and it's been so long one of us would have been informed by now.

Legal action is not the only action. I've pointed out how taking action to mitigate the problem is faster and better than the "legal" route. You can ignore that if you like.
 
'that is "the most criminal thing" they could do.'

You suffer from a lack of imagination -- you would make a very poor super-villain (or Bond movie script writer). If I were Tesla, I could easily find a lot "more criminal things to do".

If you were Tesla you should have left this thread for good. Yet, you keep coming back to the "echo chamber"?

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
 
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I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. Tesla found an issue and took immediate action to prevent the problem from causing a fire. With the immediate problem solved they then continued investigating and working on other solutions. The only other thing they could have done was immediately recalled all affected vehicles, but with no replacement packs available people would have been without their cars, or be given ICE rentals from Tesla, for months. Obviously it would have been a disaster for the company, from which it may never have recovered, which would have meant no replacement packs for anyone in the future.
Sounds to me they fixed their problem, with giving us a problem by capping our batteries. But yeah im so glad they sneaked that "fix" into a firmware update. Such a great company!
 
I'm simply stating that sending out an immediate fix was the best response, not mailing out legal but completely useless notices.

I think you would agree that they should have done both.

If the concern was safety and the quick fix was capping and limiting that was actually the right thing.

That's not a fix. It's a band-aid. A workaround.
 
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I'm simply stating that sending out an immediate fix was the best response
I'm hung up on your suggestion that you believe that they definitely committed crimes that are in your own words a disaster for the company. There is no fix! You hope there is a fix but that's all it is: hope. In order for there to be a fix it means there is a disastrous coverup still ongoing, and it's more disastrous than you realize because you're suggesting fires will still happen. Not all cars are updated, and after batterygate a lot of cars will never be updated again. Failure to report means Tesla is intentionally putting lives in danger, turning the lower crimes you suggest into murder if just one of the un-updated cars has a fatality.

Think through the accusations you're making. Tesla didn't fix anything. They may have saved money, but the problem is still there, and unaddressed in who knows how many cars. If it's the fatal defect you think it is, those "useless notices" will literally save lives. There is a new owner that just picked up a 2000 mile 2013 Model S that has been advised to not update. Why on earth would he? The only confirmed effects of updating are negative, to the point of potentially crippling.
And what you're saying is "Tesla should have done nothing other than notify NHTSA, who would then take their sweet time deciding what if anything should be done, while vehicles caught fire and endangered people".
Negative ghost rider, I'm saying Tesla shouldn't be acting as a criminal enterprise, should notify the authorities, who would make the decision free from any potential profitability concerns and only taking into account public safety. These laws exist to save lives and are not as useless as you say. Tesla is a corporation operating on greed for the sake of saving money, the NHTSA is a public organization operating for the public good to save lives. Greed won out, and that's bad when you yourself are suggesting people are likely to be murdered by Tesla right now. Intentionally placing people in harm's way is a real, serious, crime you're accusing Tesla of committing. I've seen a lot of apologies for corporate greed before, but believing Tesla would purposefully choose to kill people in lieu of "paperwork" is ridiculous. That's just not something you should suggest as an apology, it's the most harmful action Tesla could have taken.

I refuse to believe you. I kind of do - I haven't parked in my garage for 6 months - but I don't want to consciously choose to believe Tesla is trying to kill anyone to save some money or avoid doing paperwork.
 
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Again you're more concerned with proper procedure and legality than actually protecting people. It seems you'd be happier if Tesla went the slower, "legal" route, and while NHTSA deliberated as to what to do people's cars were catching fire. We'll simply have to disagree on that one.

How do we know Tesla didn't notify NHTSA that they were investigating a possible issue? It isn't like NHTSA notifies everyone about everything they are made aware of...
 
How do we know Tesla didn't notify NHTSA that they were investigating a possible issue? It isn't like NHTSA notifies everyone about everything they are made aware of...
Are you serious? You ask this question quite often and receive definitive answers every time. You even mark the answers "read" as you do on every post you read!

Here's the last time your memory was refreshed: Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

"That should be obvious - the NHTSA doesn't permit theft or warranty violations and discloses drastic modifications made before action is taken with federally mandated public disclosure. It's all part of their own legal requirements. And, of course, I read the documentation from the NHTSA demanding Tesla turn over that data to aid in their investigation into chargegate & batterygate, and I know for fact the NHTSA will never permit downgrades like Tesla has pulled. If they had been included, we would have received physical paper letters informing us of the actions taken on or cars. (informed consent is what they call it in my industry, and the NHTSA has similar requirements). It's a very big deal. Lack of informed consent will probably result in additional punitive actions against Tesla but that's a separate set of fines from the not reporting you had asked about.

Since you've forgotten, Mercedes was just fined for unreported problems. Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software - you marked that post as read so I know you already know all of this.


The fines stem from a year-long NHTSA investigation into every Mercedes recall between 2016 and 2018 after the agency, among several federal violations it identified, found the company late in mailing owner letters and omitting critical information in its filings. The automaker must pay $13 million up front, with another $7 million in hanging fines if NHTSA determines that Mercedes is delaying or failing to improve its recall processes. The company will be audited by NHTSA for the next two years.

By law, every automaker must submit quarterly reports to NHTSA that show the progress of ongoing recalls along with all known claims of property damage, death, injury, warranty claims, owner complaints, and internal studies for their past and present models.
It was my hope that Tesla would rush to try and get tiny fines like Mercedes, but it seems they haven't.

When the NHTSA is notified, they will be required send physical mail to all of us owners informing us of the non-consentual modifications made to our cars, as well as informing us of when those damages will be rectified. If it follows standard NHTSA procedure it will tell us to contact Tesla to arrange repairs with them. It should be almost identical to the recall letters most of us affected in this thread have received for our Teslas in the past; if you want to know what those look like for a Tesla recall it's probably easy to find in an early Takata thread.

Don't you worry, we will scan and post the results for you to read the gritty details of the NHTSA letters in this thread as soon as we get them. You won't be left in suspense."

__________________________________________________________________________________

We still don't have NHTSA letters to share with you with an official timeline for scheduled repairs that we will get once the NHTSA determines the proper course of action. You still don't need to worry, many of us owners will definitely share that information with you the moment we have it!

MP3mike marked this post "read" (for the third time he's needed this same info reposted)
 
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I do agree with @JRP3 that, if the concern was fires, then getting out a temporary fix to mitigate the immediate risk while they figure out the issue and a long term fix was the correct move. Heck, even if it done to prevent older packs from dying until they can get supply chain ramped up, it's somewhat defensible if the alternative is your car is out of commission for 6 months while they scramble to come up with a replacement pack.

What has not been acceptable is the lack of communications on the topic. It's not nice to gaslight your own customers. I can imagine how this was rationalized within the Tesla bunker, but I don't think they fully appreciate the damage they have done to the brand in the process.
 
@MP3Mike

You have posted hundreds of messages, if not thousands, in this thread. Few informative but the rest mostly antagonistic toward the impacted owners and persistently supportive of Tesla's behavior and response with regard to the topic of this thread. Yet, we still do not know if you own a Tesla car. You definitely never talk about it. To enhance your contribution on topic, share with other owners your:
- Car model
- Year
- Miles
- Lifetime average wh/mi
- Current RM
- Charging habits
- Cell voltage at 100%
- How you are impacted by batterygate and chargegate

We definitely can learn from your ownership experience. Thanks in advance.
 
I do agree with @JRP3 that, if the concern was fires, then getting out a temporary fix to mitigate the immediate risk while they figure out the issue and a long term fix was the correct move. Heck, even if it done to prevent older packs from dying until they can get supply chain ramped up, it's somewhat defensible if the alternative is your car is out of commission for 6 months while they scramble to come up with a replacement pack.

What has not been acceptable is the lack of communications on the topic. It's not nice to gaslight your own customers. I can imagine how this was rationalized within the Tesla bunker, but I don't think they fully appreciate the damage they have done to the brand in the process.

I agree.

BTW, you need to give me a better trick. Going to Home Depot has not been working for me. Are you sure that's the only think you did? :)
 
@MP3Mike

You have posted hundreds of messages, if not thousands, in this thread. Few informative but the rest mostly antagonistic toward the impacted owners and persistently supportive of Tesla's behavior and response with regard to the topic of this thread. Yet, we still do not know if you own a Tesla car. You definitely never talk about it. To enhance your contribution on topic, share with other owners your:
- Car model
- Year
- Miles
- Lifetime average wh/mi
- Current RM
- Charging habits
- Cell voltage at 100%
- How you are impacted by batterygate and chargegate

We definitely can learn from your ownership experience. Thanks in advance.

Sorry, but I prefer to remain anonymous so I will not be sharing details about my cars that could be used to identify me or my vehicles. (I don't share my Tesla referral code with people I don't personally know either.)

And I don't know my cell voltage as I don't have any Android/iOS devices, or the dongle, to run the necessary software. (And I'm not concerned enough to bother to borrow the stuff.)