So, you are saying not that you have no degradation but your battery has more capacity after 5 years?
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
So, you are saying not that you have no degradation but your battery has more capacity after 5 years?
let me help you out bud, @MelvinLee
Still disagree? I didn't think so.
So, as I said much earlier in this thread. let's put this myth to bed. those who bought a car and have to update to maintain a warranty, this condition is effective Feb 1, 2019. anyone who bought a model S 85 variant new before then, you will not have this limitation. anyone who bought a used 85 prior to 2019, check your warranty, you have one of two.
PSA: print it out and save it. Tesla is required to keep access to this warranty by law, but they don't have to make it downloadable for you on the internet. Again, put this myth to rest now please.
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Proof is in the pudding. As I said, I charged to 100% giving an indicated range of 253 miles and then did an actual continuous drive of 250 miles at 60-65 mph, arriving with a few miles to spare. So yes, I believe the 253 mile range indicated at a 100% charge prior to the forced update was accurate. If the range indication was inaccurate, I would have run out of battery power before reaching the point B charger, which as I noted was 250 miles from the point A charger.
Did you attempt to drive 265 continuous miles at 65 mph after charging to an indicated range of 265 miles and if so, what was the result?
This has got to one the best posts of this crazy long thread. Thanks!!Hi, I find the numbers interesting.
Being Elctronics Engineer for many decades and from reading Li-Ion papers for years, my brain rules out, that a degradation of 1,56% over six years of use is possible. I think the BMS has failed to correctly identify/estimate/measure the degradation. Only the new Jeff Dahn & Dalhouisie Team NMC cells degrade that little A Wide Range of Testing Results on an Excellent Lithium-Ion Cell Chemistry to be used as Benchmarks for New Battery Technologies
Own experience with Li-Ion (NMC though) is:
A: Even with the most perfect treatment of Li-Ion, internal resistance grows over time, so with same remaning capacity, range should be shorter, just because of bigger heat loss.
B: At work we have Lenovo Laptops, that have been powered on everyday, but at only 55% StateofCharge. The BMS thinks they did not degrade at all over the last 3 years, but the battery life from 55% and down is terrible and the battery goes warm, so has high internal resistance
C: I had to dismantle my 8 year old Nokia Windows Phone last week and lift the cell voltage from 2,45V to 3,22V before battery protection allowed it to charge, because it had been powered off for some months and my son wanted it for Alarm Clock. Battery has same capacity as last spring (it only charge to 55% only as well
All above changes reduces 'range' So I propose that the 253 miles of range was dead wrong (as Tesloop and Tesla Bjørn has experienced with cars dying with miles still on the gauge).
I cannot know whether your capacity should be 223 miles or higher, that depends on whether your batteri has been top-capped.
If you were hit by both 'more correct estimate' and capping, then Tesla's timing is bad. If they first told us that the fantastic low degradation we (*) have experienced was partly due to a bad BMS algorithm and that a new version of SW now report the correct range, so we no longer risk stranding a cold vinter night on a dark highway, then we may have accepted that as necessary. (And Tesla will not need to replace batteries, which they had to for both Tesloop and Bjørn)
A later message to those capped, that the capping is a temporary safety measure, untill Tesla figures out how to handle the assumed safety issue, would as well be less bad for Tesla trustworthieness, than this thread.
(*) Dec 2015 S 70D, BMS Reported range when new: 364 km, now 351 km a dgeradation of around 3,5%. Never the less I tell ABetterRoutePlanner that my battery has degraded 7% and my car uses 205 Wh/km at 110 km/h, which makes me hit the SUC with 17%, when ABRP calculted 18%)
That was quite the rant. Some of what you stated could be the result of a bunker mentality developed over years of battles with the media. They trust no one. There is validity to what you state regarding the financial benefits of blacklisting vehicles, but I think the reasons for their actions are more a combination of many factors, not just money.
I was not questioning you observations. I was just bringing up a different variation as it applies to my car. I still can not explain my case though.
No, I do not attempt to drive 265 continuous miles without any charge during that stretch. Have never been a good gambler
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You fail to realize this warranty pertains to all Tesla’s just as stated in the battery portion. So yes even your Tesla is applied to this warranty now
The signed purchase sale agreement that you have with Tesla is all that matters with regards to warranty terms.
They have changed over the years....
They have changed over the years....
Tesla doesn’t give a *sugar* about your prior warranty. Just like you no longer have to have a service every year. Or do you believe you do since that’s what your original warranty stated?
They wouldn’t be including older cars in the terms if that was the case. Like I already said than you must have to service your car yearly? Cause the new warranty no longer requires you too
Can’t have the best of both worlds since your old warranty required a yearly service and this one no longer does. So do you think you still have to get it serviced yearly?
This was effective Feb 1st
The effective date applies to the date of the purchased cars, not when that was printed
What does effective date means to you?
Also, new warranty policies are not retroactive, you know?
Well I choose to not pay a yearly service that this warranty states is not necessary and you can follow yours which states you must have a yearly service
They aren't. You're reading it wrong. Older cars that have their original battery still installed are not covered by the terms in the document you posted. Read through that battery section of the warranty and you'll also discover there is nothing specific about software updates as pertains to battery warranties, first of all. Next, the voided warranty terms later in that document can't and don't supercede previous warranty terms of previously bought cars with their original batteries. It's just the way it is. That's how commerce works. Further, this battery warranty doesn't even cover previously bought batteries; it only covers new ones bought after Feb 1 2019 OR batteries replaced under warranty after Feb 1 2019. Replacement under a previous warranty is the only way a battery in an old 85 from 2013 would fall under this new 2019 warranty. Just come off it and bow out. I appreciate it if you're trying to help, but you're beyond that now and are just trying to salvage some kind of bunk argument to save face and not be wrong.
They did not require it when I bought my car. Of course you will have to litigate if anyone you do business with fails to honor a contract. That’s how it works in the US.
Ferrycraigs
Member
I’m pretty sure the old Warranty was pretty specific that servicing, or the lack of it, did NOT affect the Warranty
No, I do not attempt to drive 265 continuous miles without any charge during that stretch. Have never been a good gambler
I don’t do it unless absolutely necessary. I was driving to the west coast from Louisville Kentucky and looking at PlugShare et al., I couldn’t find any intermediate place to stop and add a charge.
OTOH, after the forced update I drove from FL to Boston. Stopped at Lumberton N.C. to charge to get to the next leg of the trip (Rocky Mount, NC). Added 50% additional charge (charged to indicated range of 180 miles for a 120 mile drive) and the indicated range hit 0 about 1 mile before reaching the supercharger. Then, when in Boston the car wouldn’t go into Drive, showing numerous error messages including that the HV battery voltage was too low, even though the range indicator said I had over 150 miles range left. Tesla towed the car, but of course it worked then. They were able to see all the error messages by checking the logs, but they could not reproduce the problem. All I know is that I had no problems until the firmware update was forced onto my car.
Tesla services my car yearly. My car includes an 8 year warranty plus 8 years of service. But my car was a special case. Not free to discuss why.
I have a friend that’s experiencing the exact same thing where the car won’t go in drive... I also had mine show a few errors right after the forced update... low voltage, etc and than it performed a system check and was fine. What do you have P90DL?
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