You missing the main point here Mr. bmah. When you bargained for a car that takes you certain time to make a specific trip, and later they switched the game that you need more hours to do the samr trip, you have been cheated and did not get what you bargained for. That is why it is " USELESS" for what I bought it for.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
I was told my battery is good.... and the battery charging software of my car was been updated which further protects the battery and improves battery longevity
. Trying to decide what to do next.When I initially complained -- they acknowledged something was wrong in writing and replaced 3 of my pumps. I don't think replacing the pumps helped any -- so not sure exactly why they did that... Unless there is some other reason.
Now it seems like I'm getting the generic response.
Last edited:
Your warranty, and its specific terms and exclusions, was part of "what you bargained for".
On the other hand a promise for "a car that will always and forever only take a certain time to make a specific trip" was not any part of "what you bargained for".
But it does look like that at after 250k miles you are likely to still have > 70% of original range!
Last edited:
You missed my point. I get that your car is useless for what you bought it for, because Supercharging takes a lot longer than it used to. I'm sorry...I agree that'd suck. My only point was that you cannot apply that standard to any other owner. Supercharging takes longer on my car too, but I still find it quite usable for road trips. That's all I have to say.
Thanks.
Bruce.
My car has only 29k miles on it. You still twisting facts. We are talking here in this thread about SUDDEN AND DELIBERATE downgrading, not warranty or degradation
Thanks
The photo was of a poster on the wall of a Tesla showroom taken this week.
Wonder if the posters start suddenly disappearing after someone at Tesla reads this?
You were talking about "what you bargained for." Your warranty is part of "what you bargained for." Unclear what facts you think are twisted.
Well id agree with him, its starting to be useless specially with capped battery, draining faster and doubling charge time. Sooner or later that statement will be true for most older Model S owners.
But someone will always find a use for undrivable crippled cars like hanging it on a wall as art. Or parting them out. They might not be useful as cars but they will have a use, even if it's just being used to occupy space in a junk yard. And even after the cars are crushed and gone, the memory of gimped cars will always be used as a warning of what Tesla does to Tesla's after a few years, and that's important too. That memory will save some people from our fate, and maybe stop Tesla from doing it to more people.
Last edited:
cpa
Active Member
BHZ,
I'd like to understand your personal values, morals, education, and any other relevant facts that have formed your views on this matter.
From the bazillion pages on this thread, your points of view generally run contrary to the majority (that is great--a lively discussion helps!) but you keep hanging onto the 70% threshold, a very narrow interpretation of Tesla's warranty, approval of Tesla manipulating the batteries that we paid for as part of the purchase price, and one or two others that escape me at the moment. You seem to me to see the world only in black or white. You do not recognize gray or colors of the rainbow. In my threescore plus years rarely are things this complex so easily pigeonholed.
I think everyone not on Tesla's bandwagon has been thoughtful, considerate, deliberative, and detailed in expressing their reasons for their dissatisfaction, disappointment, and general disgust at Tesla's callous and authoritarian principles and business model. (Yes, there has been some hyperbole, but by and large it has been dismissed as just that.)
My personal entreaty to you would be to give us a little glimpse behind your curtain. Explain in depth--be detailed, deliberative, and thoughtful--why our opinions and beliefs are cockeyed. What are we not seeing clearly through our biases and self-interests? Why is it OK for Tesla to usurp our batteries' performance or SC speeds without our consent or without a valid reason for doing so? Why is it OK for the Service Centers to feed us a load of manure about the batteries? Why is it OK for the Service Centers not to show us the diagnostic reports on our batteries? Why is it OK for Tesla to be evasive, clandestine, and silent? This is just a sampling.
I do not know any of the other contributors on this thread personally. But I would guess that quite a few us would like to gain an opposing viewpoint that is on topic and explains the second side to the story.
MikeBur
ManualPilot
Has anyone *measured data* on the following things, preferably for p85d on latest FW. Some appear to be in this thread, through the signal to noise ratio is not conducive to finding a consistent dataset:
Battery capacity reduction is a misnomer and outside of catastrophic cell failure not the issue imo. I’m seeking data to understand / reverse engineer the modifications done to the firmware to purposely nerf the characteristics of our vehicles and less caring about the why. If I needed to care about the why, I’d just be told by Tesla, right?. If the car is not performing to specifications we can have a data-driven conversation about how to address. DM me if you don’t want data public re rooted info.
Cc: @Ingineer, @verygreen, @wk057
Thanks.
- Peak power output from battery
- Top speed
- 0-60 time (1 foot rollout, or not, stated)
- max regen rate
- Per module charging over time on SpC. Bonus points for CHaDeMo.
Battery capacity reduction is a misnomer and outside of catastrophic cell failure not the issue imo. I’m seeking data to understand / reverse engineer the modifications done to the firmware to purposely nerf the characteristics of our vehicles and less caring about the why. If I needed to care about the why, I’d just be told by Tesla, right?
. If the car is not performing to specifications we can have a data-driven conversation about how to address. DM me if you don’t want data public re rooted info.Cc: @Ingineer, @verygreen, @wk057
Thanks.
A little update on the performance after ~250 mi driving today on the new pack:
Did two cycles of 10% to 90% supercharging today, the outside temperature is about 45F, arrived with the battery warmed. Both sessions started at 60kW and very shortly went to the max of 115kW to 117kW and stayed there until about 38% SoC. then tapered to 85kW till hits 60%, then gradually went down as the SoC went up, by the time I finish at 90%, the charging rate is at 55kW. Both took about 50 minutes to charge from 10% to 90%. Definitely feels a lot faster comparing my old ancient original pack which I had never seen anything exceed 90kW. Supposedly the max charging rate should be around 120kW since both times the Superchargers are almost full, will need to try next time when nobody is using.
The acceleration feels quicker than before when passing on the highway, and the average kW/mi went back down to my old pack's level. In addition, the vampire drain is way lower than before, now only about 5mi per day.
Overall the replacement pack feels like a normally functioning new pack, has no signs of the function being limited.
A little recap of the old pack's behavior after the updated to 2019.16 and before the warning shows up: My car seems to be the one of only a few original 2012 pack that got capped and according to the remote diag, in addition to the 10% range loss, I lost another 10% due to imbalance, the service rep. did show me how to rebalance the battery and the range went back up a little after a couple cycles of charging. But after updating to 40.2.3, I can clearly see the range went back down to the previous level, not sure if that's also because of balancing, could also be the reason triggers the replacement.
Did two cycles of 10% to 90% supercharging today, the outside temperature is about 45F, arrived with the battery warmed. Both sessions started at 60kW and very shortly went to the max of 115kW to 117kW and stayed there until about 38% SoC. then tapered to 85kW till hits 60%, then gradually went down as the SoC went up, by the time I finish at 90%, the charging rate is at 55kW. Both took about 50 minutes to charge from 10% to 90%. Definitely feels a lot faster comparing my old ancient original pack which I had never seen anything exceed 90kW. Supposedly the max charging rate should be around 120kW since both times the Superchargers are almost full, will need to try next time when nobody is using.
The acceleration feels quicker than before when passing on the highway, and the average kW/mi went back down to my old pack's level. In addition, the vampire drain is way lower than before, now only about 5mi per day.
Overall the replacement pack feels like a normally functioning new pack, has no signs of the function being limited.
A little recap of the old pack's behavior after the updated to 2019.16 and before the warning shows up: My car seems to be the one of only a few original 2012 pack that got capped and according to the remote diag, in addition to the 10% range loss, I lost another 10% due to imbalance, the service rep. did show me how to rebalance the battery and the range went back up a little after a couple cycles of charging. But after updating to 40.2.3, I can clearly see the range went back down to the previous level, not sure if that's also because of balancing, could also be the reason triggers the replacement.
Attachments
BHZ,
I'd like to understand your personal values, morals, education, and any other relevant facts that have formed your views on this matter.
From the bazillion pages on this thread, your points of view generally run contrary to the majority (that is great--a lively discussion helps!) but you keep hanging onto the 70% threshold, a very narrow interpretation of Tesla's warranty, approval of Tesla manipulating the batteries that we paid for as part of the purchase price, and one or two others that escape me at the moment. You seem to me to see the world only in black or white. You do not recognize gray or colors of the rainbow. In my threescore plus years rarely are things this complex so easily pigeonholed.
I think everyone not on Tesla's bandwagon has been thoughtful, considerate, deliberative, and detailed in expressing their reasons for their dissatisfaction, disappointment, and general disgust at Tesla's callous and authoritarian principles and business model. (Yes, there has been some hyperbole, but by and large it has been dismissed as just that.)
My personal entreaty to you would be to give us a little glimpse behind your curtain. Explain in depth--be detailed, deliberative, and thoughtful--why our opinions and beliefs are cockeyed. What are we not seeing clearly through our biases and self-interests? Why is it OK for Tesla to usurp our batteries' performance or SC speeds without our consent or without a valid reason for doing so? Why is it OK for the Service Centers to feed us a load of manure about the batteries? Why is it OK for the Service Centers not to show us the diagnostic reports on our batteries? Why is it OK for Tesla to be evasive, clandestine, and silent? This is just a sampling.
I do not know any of the other contributors on this thread personally. But I would guess that quite a few us would like to gain an opposing viewpoint that is on topic and explains the second side to the story.
That is really generous of you to take the time and effort to write all of that. Well written.
Have you ever thought he is just might be doing a (his) job
In case some of you want to know, the battery swap cost about $22k based on the quote SC sent me, of course, it's covered under warranty.
Took SC 3 days to get the pack, and couple hours for the swap. pretty fast turn around.
Hope to see more and more of us get the same fix.
Took SC 3 days to get the pack, and couple hours for the swap. pretty fast turn around.
Hope to see more and more of us get the same fix.
Given that your car is 2012 I am surprised that Tesla did not try to give you a sweet deal on upgrading. Wouldn't you be out of warranty soon on the power train and everything else?
Did they give indicate what the warranty is on your new battery?
Questions P85D ‘15 owner:
-Software gate affect “paid off” or “original owner” vehicles than 2nd hand or leased vehicles?
-Reduced max charge cars. Is there any teslaspy data on cells voltages etc, to indicate how close another pack is to failure?
my stats:
DC charge total 14971kWh
AC charge total 19141kWh
Charge total 51726kWh
Dicharge cycle 659x
Charge cycle 699X
Nominal full pack. 74kWh (never changes)
ODO 101K miles
-Software gate affect “paid off” or “original owner” vehicles than 2nd hand or leased vehicles?
-Reduced max charge cars. Is there any teslaspy data on cells voltages etc, to indicate how close another pack is to failure?
my stats:
DC charge total 14971kWh
AC charge total 19141kWh
Charge total 51726kWh
Dicharge cycle 659x
Charge cycle 699X
Nominal full pack. 74kWh (never changes)
ODO 101K miles
Similar threads
