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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
let me help the folks who refuse to connect the dots.
Ing is concerned because due to the shortcomings with our battery, he seems to say that the car is more likely to catch fire in a wreck than it would have been if the battery was healthy. Therefore it warrants concern. Cars spontaneously bursting into flames in your garage: extremely concerning and scary. Cars bursting into flames after a wreck, when in theory they might not have done so: extremely concerning and scary (for example, battery is on fire and the doors won't open). The dots required to come to this conclusion are: lithium plating is probably occurring in all of the capped batteries, and frankly probably ALL classic cars' batteries capped or not (as many refuse updates). ING seems to imply that excessive lithium plating makes a battery a whole lot less stable, in terms of a sudden release of stored energy being possible with a rupture or high temperature condition. Thus, he appears to be concerned about fires during accidents as well as parked.
Believe it or not, your odds of getting into an accident are high, relative to all of the other chance-occurrences that are happening in your day to day life, unless you don't commute every day. You "feel" like the odds aren't bad because you essentially escape unscathed every day, but they are in fact pretty bad (future archeologists will look at us and wonder WTF was wrong with us). Don't get me wrong, I drive everywhere, almost everyone does, but at the end of the day, an already dangerous activity is made less safe by unhealthy batteries.
Ing is concerned because due to the shortcomings with our battery, he seems to say that the car is more likely to catch fire in a wreck than it would have been if the battery was healthy. Therefore it warrants concern. Cars spontaneously bursting into flames in your garage: extremely concerning and scary. Cars bursting into flames after a wreck, when in theory they might not have done so: extremely concerning and scary (for example, battery is on fire and the doors won't open). The dots required to come to this conclusion are: lithium plating is probably occurring in all of the capped batteries, and frankly probably ALL classic cars' batteries capped or not (as many refuse updates). ING seems to imply that excessive lithium plating makes a battery a whole lot less stable, in terms of a sudden release of stored energy being possible with a rupture or high temperature condition. Thus, he appears to be concerned about fires during accidents as well as parked.
Believe it or not, your odds of getting into an accident are high, relative to all of the other chance-occurrences that are happening in your day to day life, unless you don't commute every day. You "feel" like the odds aren't bad because you essentially escape unscathed every day, but they are in fact pretty bad (future archeologists will look at us and wonder WTF was wrong with us). Don't get me wrong, I drive everywhere, almost everyone does, but at the end of the day, an already dangerous activity is made less safe by unhealthy batteries.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Actually I think he's saying that the NCA cell chemistry is inherently less stable than others, which was already a known fact.
the batteries which caught on fire were stationary.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The comment to which I was replying referenced nail penetration, i.e. physical damage, as in a crash.
Dendrites = nail which is physical.
Edit: I don't know if there are 'nails' that technically aren't Dendrites. But these are internal to the cells.
There was iirc a recent comment that these fires could not happen while a car is being driven. It is true that greatest stress internal to cells is at high SOC, but internal battery heat can be generated by multiple effects.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I made a comment that a vehicle being driven would not have the same voltage potential. (Unless it were straight off the charger and only driven a few miles.) I wasn't talking about internal heat.
This is what concerns me:
That tells me parked, driven, or flying in the air, you might have over 7000 unstable cathodes under your seat.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
A battery with massive loss of cycleable lithium would have a significant loss of capacity. The premise here is that Tesla is artificially lowering the capacity by capping voltage.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
By blaming aircon, external temperature, normal use, driving technique, etc etc....
And installing new games, marginally useful features and endless bug fixes. Anything to muddy the water.
So better to refer to lost (inacessible /changed capacity) which is not up for debate.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
No, the nail test is a standardized test which uses a steel needle to puncure the cell in order to provoke an onset.
In a new cell there is always excess lithium, so the loss of capacity is not directly proportional to the loss of cycyleable lithium.
How much excess lithium a manufacturer uses in a new cell is a question of the wished safety class, but also from the chosen electrode balancing.
It takes a hell of an accident to actually damage the battery pack to the point where physical damage can result in problems (short, fire, etc).
I've gotten cars that have been in rollovers, high speed collisions, and all sorts of accidents... and the vast majority had little to no damage done to the battery case, let alone to the cells.
For example... this car literally was driven off a mountain, rolled multiple times:
(The battery from this car was pulled, tested, and used in another vehicle with zero issues.)
In any case, physical damage in an accident has absolutely nothing to do with this thread (loss of range due to Tesla's updates).
I've gotten cars that have been in rollovers, high speed collisions, and all sorts of accidents... and the vast majority had little to no damage done to the battery case, let alone to the cells.
For example... this car literally was driven off a mountain, rolled multiple times:
(The battery from this car was pulled, tested, and used in another vehicle with zero issues.)
In any case, physical damage in an accident has absolutely nothing to do with this thread (loss of range due to Tesla's updates).
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