Sudden Unexpected Acceleration today

[JulienW]

But why wouldn't the collision avoidance keep the car from hitting a wall? I thought that was one of the NHTSA tests??

You give it a try on YOURS and let me know how it works.

Also you are thinking about pedestrian avoidance and that is in Europe that they test this or Collision Avoidance ASSIST that is for forward driving and just helps lessen the impact. Read your manual.

 

[wk057]

That "paper" about sudden acceleration being related to encoder failure is complete garbage and has no basis in reality.

I've debunked it elsewhere around here, but probably buried.

Immediately you can reject the entire thing when it says that the encoder and accelerator pedal share a 5V source. Tesla's design doesn't do this, even in the earliest inverters. In fact, Tesla outputs all six lines for the accelerator pedal directly with no sharing (Power 1, Power 2, Return 1, Return 2, Sense 1, Sense 2). Almost anyone can debunk this paper in 5 minutes by crawling under their car, pulling one connector, and testing a few things with a continuity meter.

Let's say that in some imaginary world, somehow this failure mode exists (it doesn't), and it can drag an accelerator pedal sense line, or both, to 5V. Welllllll... there are hardware and software interlocks on the accelerator pedal sense that then immediately reject (as if the pedal were not pressed, ie 0%) the input from the pedal. The pedal has TWO sensors, both with different outputs, that have to match. 5V and 5V doesn't line up with the expected output. Tesla goes even further than is even necessary here (since the software is perfectly capable on its own to detect this discrepancy). The hardware side of the pedal sensor has a clamp where if either input exceeds their expected voltage by a reasonable range, it'll disable the sensing of it, throw a code, and it doesn't even make it to the software side (sw sees 0% press).

So even if you believe the encoder failure nonsense, you can also debunk this by simulating such a failure: just unplug your accelerator pedal, and short pins 6 to 4 and 1 to 3 on the car side... which would put the 5V reference outputs from the motor into the sense lines for each of the sensors in the pedal. If you want to make it a shared 5V reference, short 1,3,4, and 6 all together. Regardless, I'll bet ya the car doesn't suddenly accelerate...

Any takers on my bet yet?

 

[SOULPEDL]

This topic still going? So old...

 

[EVnut]

Would be happy with a geo fence that cut Creep off but need it to park/charge.

I would welcome an option to use creep only in reverse. I'd also like to have the go pedal re-mapped for "ultra-chill" mode in reverse. I *never* need high acceleration in reverse, so let's de-ramp it and make it more calm, please!

 

[BigMod3Fan]

Just wanted to update everyone on this issue. I contacted Tesla hoping their virtual team would look at the logs. They instead asked me to arrange a service call (two weeks later). The day before the service person was supposed to show up, they cancelled it and said it's an issue for the virtual team. Heard nothing since even after repeated inquiries. If I ever do hear anything, I will update you all.

 

[wk057]

Here is an interesting incident with a Model X, you will notice the brake lights are off except at the very end.

 

[AltLogic]

If you want to understand the human brain, incompetent newscasting and verbal communications a little better, watch the following video and listen to the conversation.

Here is what you will notice:

During the 911 call the caller is asked “Are you able to hit your brakes at all?”
The caller responded “I.. We’ve tried everything.”

In this stressful situation the brain wouldn’t allow itself to lie. The driver wanted to say yes but the brain came up with an alternate solution to answer the question and satisfy the dispatcher.

The dispatcher tells the driver to lift up on the stock(stalk) accelerator while also pushing down on the brake. This allowed the SUV to slow down after over 45 minutes of driving with a “stuck” accelerator.

Sounds to me like the dispatcher had to interrupt the brain process that believed the right foot was on the brake pedal and it had to push that pedal as hard as possible. The words that worked allowed the left foot to push the brake pedal and the right foot to let up on the accelerator even though the brain thought it was on the brake pedal.

Also notice that there are no brake lights on the video until the very end.

Moral of the story:
If you ever are driving a car and it accelerates suddenly when you didn’t want it to, put both feet on the brake pedal and push.

The video can be found by searching:
car speeds out of control at 110 MPH

 

[mongo]

I saw that clip (the video, not Spongebob) on a compilation video. The aggregator said the driver had a health issue/ emergency.

 

[EVnut]

Wow. Yeah. No mention at all in the news story on the 110mph run about how it was totally user error. Gosh. Pressing the brake worked. Who knew?

 

[Dan203]

So the other day I was driving along in my automatic BMW 340i thinking about how I missed having a stick. Just a casual thought in my head. But for some reason because I was thinking about this when I came to a corner I tried to push the "clutch" and instead pushed the brake with my left foot, causing a very sudden and unexpected stop which made me look and feel like a complete idiot.

So much of driving is just "automatic" to our brains that even a slight variance in our train of thought can cause little brain farts like this. I can totally see why someone might happen to hit the gas instead of the brake and not realize that's what they're doing.

 

[EVnut]

. I can totally see why someone might happen to hit the gas instead of the brake and not realize that's what they're doing.

We can all imagine that happening. The difference is in trying to shift the blame to the car and the company that made the car.

 

[derkan]

I tell my wife all the time not to put projectiles on her lap, console, rear seat, etc. Many times when I get in our M3 I find something on the driver side floormat. Wrappers, empty water bottles etc. I had a mishap many years ago where my Ford SUV kept accelerating, I slammed the brakes but the car was fighting it, took a few seconds until I realized the accelerator pedal was stuck due to some object (can't recall what it was) and/or stuck under the floormat. I had to unbuckle and reach down with my hand to unstuck the accelerator. Lessons have been learned.

1. Don't put loose stuff anywhere near the driver. Ever. Even if it doesn't interfere with pedals (that time) it's distracting when something falls
2. Really happy in a fight between brake and accelerator pedals on Tesla (and other EVs?) brake always wins. Now just make sure nothing stuck UNDER the brake pedal.

 

[derkan]

To clarify rear seat: Stuff falling off the rear seat can make it to the drivers footwell because there's so much room (which I like) underneath the front seats.

 

[StellarRat]

I tell my wife all the time not to put projectiles on her lap, console, rear seat, etc. Many times when I get in our M3 I find something on the driver side floormat. Wrappers, empty water bottles etc. I had a mishap many years ago where my Ford SUV kept accelerating, I slammed the brakes but the car was fighting it, took a few seconds until I realized the accelerator pedal was stuck due to some object (can't recall what it was) and/or stuck under the floormat. I had to unbuckle and reach down with my hand to unstuck the accelerator. Lessons have been learned.

1. Don't put loose stuff anywhere near the driver. Ever. Even if it doesn't interfere with pedals (that time) it's distracting when something falls
2. Really happy in a fight between brake and accelerator pedals on Tesla (and other EVs?) brake always wins. Now just make sure nothing stuck UNDER the brake pedal.

1# There have been airplane crashes due to loose stuff getting in the controls. I've personally had the carpet make the accelerator pedal stick in one of my cars. Fortunately, it was a manual transmission so pushing in the clutch and brake fixed immediate situation. The good news is that the Tesla rubber mats you can buy seem to be pretty safe in this regard.

 

[Daniel in SD]

1# There have been airplane crashes due to loose stuff getting in the controls. I've personally had the carpet make the accelerator pedal stick in one of my cars. Fortunately, it was a manual transmission so pushing in the clutch and brake fixed immediate situation. The good news is that the Tesla rubber mats you can buy seem to be pretty safe in this regard.

In most modern cars (including Teslas) pressing the brake pedal disables the accelerator input.

 

[StellarRat]

In most modern cars (including Teslas) pressing the brake pedal disables the accelerator input.

Well, I didn't even let it get that far. Pushing the clutch in definitely stops any acceleration.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Well, I didn't even let it get that far. Pushing the clutch in definitely stops any acceleration.

I had the same thing happen on a manual transmission car and my instinct was to press the clutch in too. Then I had to wedge to my foot under the accelerator and pull it up. It's definitely a jarring experience!

 

[StellarRat]

I had the same thing happen on a manual transmission car and my instinct was to press the clutch in too. Then I had to wedge to my foot under the accelerator and pull it up. It's definitely a jarring experience!

That's EXACTLY what I did!

 

[Congo Line]

My experience with accidents has been that the other drivers never admit responsibility when they are at fault. It's only after I show dashcam footage clearly showing they were in the wrong that their insurance company agrees to pay. At least on one occasion, it seemed that the other driver honestly believed she was in the turn lane (she wasn't) and blamed me.

The same behavior of not admitting fault probably plays a large role in these 'unintended acceleration' incidents. To put it bluntly, if there's vehicle damage and $$$ involved, people tend to either lie or delude themselves that they're not at fault.

 

[StellarRat]

My experience with accidents has been that the other drivers never admit responsibility when they are at fault. It's only after I show dashcam footage clearly showing they were in the wrong that their insurance company agrees to pay. At least on one occasion, it seemed that the other driver honestly believed she was in the turn lane (she wasn't) and blamed me.

The same behavior of not admitting fault probably plays a large role in these 'unintended acceleration' incidents. To put it bluntly, if there's vehicle damage and $$$ involved, people tend to either lie or delude themselves that they're not at fault.

Yep.