Supercharger blocking? Elon promises a solution

[Trips]

He already gave us part of the solution with "idle fees". I thought this was discovered back in August when the SC credits were discovered.

"Learn more about Supercharging service or idle fees here"

 

[cpa]

I think idle fees will be the initial way Tesla will try to dissuade those who park at SC sites. First time, they get a warning. Second time, a modest fee will be assessed against their credit card that is on file, just for argument's sake, $25. Third time, there will be a base fee of $25, plus $2 per minute or fraction thereof. The clock will reset to zero each calendar quarter.

I do not think that Tesla should monitor the amount of time our cars are plugged in and charging because there are too many variables that work against a speedy charge: cold weather, cold battery, reduced charging rates, shared stalls and the necessity for a range charge.

Of course, nothing would prevent someone from charging for 45 minutes and then unplugging but leaving the car unattended. I have no clue as to how to monitor that situation.

 

[Bangor Bob]

The mean FSD version:

"Your car has finished charging. There are 3 cars waiting to charge. Please move it."
"Your car finished charging 10 minutes ago. There are 5 cars waiting to charge. Please move it."
"Your car has driven itself to the city impound lot."

 

[Lloyd]

what credit card, they don't have my credit card info.
you guys need to return to the real world.

They will!!

 

[apacheguy]

Even if they don't have your credit card on file they can easily blacklist your VIN until you pay the infraction.

 

[miimura]

They will have to change the terms of service for Supercharger access such that you must have a valid credit card on file. Idle fees (parking after charging is complete) should accumulate at $1/minute after a 15 minute grace period. Accumulated fees should be charged through to the credit card as soon as they reach $100 balance or monthly, whichever comes first. If the payment fails to go through, Supercharger access is disabled until paid and a new valid credit card is put on file.

 

[kort677]

They will!!

please elaborate

 

[kort677]

The "real world" is that is a simple OTA software update away. Changes are obviously coming next month with the end of unlimited supercharging.

the end of unlimited charging does not affect me or any owners of current cars.

 

[hockeythug]

the end of unlimited charging does not affect me or any owners of current cars.

Ok. It doesn't seem you quite get it. Maybe someone else that has the patience can explain it to you.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I don't believe we will actually see idling fee's for existing owners. For new owners that have to pay for supercharging then sure I'd expect to see idling fees since it's fairly easy to implement from that point (a charging/billing system is already in place).

For existing owners I think we'll see more warnings. Humans have a tendency to do bad habits when they think no one is watching. As soon as they've been made aware of the fact that they're being watched they quickly correct their behavior. Sure you have some small percent of people that don't, but we don't need to completely eliminate the problem. We just need the problem reduced.

My own behavior is usually fairly situational. Usually how long I stay to charge is dependent on a number of factors. I might pull in and set the charge limit to 90%, but then change my mind and change it to 100%. On the way down to Portland (my typical destination) I'm usually charging way late at night so no one is there. In this case I'm just concerned about what works best for me. I typically try to charge to 100% at least once a month, but I hardly have the patience for it at a supercharger (it takes friggen forever). But, if I charge to 100% in Centralia then I can go to Portland and back without worry.

On the way back I really only need to charge to 80% or a little more. It's more crowded and busy so I'll try to stay as little as possible. I'll still eat and all that. As long as Denny's (ughh!!) doesn't take too long then I'm fine. If they take longer I'll adjust the charge limit to optimize my time. We're only talking like 5-15 minutes. An idle fee wouldn't work for me since I'm never sitting without charging.

That's one of the reasons I like software limited battery. A 60 owner couldn't pull the trick I do.

A 60 owner wouldn't even be able to escape Ikea before the charge was done.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I do question the effectiveness of idling fee's at solving the problem.

Sure we know free often leads to abuse so you make it not free. But, at the same time by monetizing it you've legitimized the behavior. So I don't think it's going to act to solve immediate problem, but it's meant as a long term solution which focuses on funding more superchargers.

We're not exactly a penny pinching group of people. For myself the superchargers have cost me way more money than they've saved. I end up finding things that I never knew existed. Like I didn't know Pendleton had really awesome Starwars limited run blankets. That ended up costing me close to $250. I should have stayed in the car. Then I made it worse at the next supercharge when I went into a bestbuy, and realized that LG was doing a black Friday event on OLED TV's. OOPS!!, Should have stayed in my car.

I think we just have to accept the problem is going to get much worse before it gets better. With it being bad there will be alternatives that open up. I think that's why Tesla is going to focus mostly on monetizing it while doing a very measured response when it comes to warnings. The first time they sent letters too widely, and that pissed a bunch of people off. So I think we'll see a lot more of a targeted in the moment response with the app.

I think it's worth adding that the problem might not be as bad as I fear. All the AP 2.0 cars have hardware technology to move themselves out of the way. Once a supercharger site has been upgraded with the snake charger even some basic summing would go a long ways. Where it's a lot more valet like, and hopefully they can ink some deals with parking places.

 

[malcolm]

It's important that Blockers are "encouraged" to understand what their actions do to inconvenience other drivers; having to give up on that charging session; having to drive to the next Supercharger.

I think there should be a series of temporary background wallpapers which download to the centre console.

Something like these:

 

[kort677]

Ok. It doesn't seem you quite get it. Maybe someone else that has the patience can explain it to you.

i don't think that you get it, for owners of existing cars NOTHING will be different regarding the usage of the SpC network.

 

[mrElbe]

For owners of existing cars nothing will change in regard to charging BUT that does not mean that policies will be implemented when you are not charging and occupying a charging stall.

 

[disagree]

The solution needs to be consistent with the idea that superchargers are for long distance travel. Doubling down on the inconvenience of charging (as opposed to gassing up) by forcing users to babysit their car while it charges on a road trip is, frankly, a dumb idea.

We're supposed to be able to take our kids to go eat or somehow make use of the time it takes to charge. It is on Tesla to find a way to get our cars parked elsewhere if the stall is needed.

Now the local supercharger abusers, that's a different matter.

 

[malcolm]

I don't think we're talking an occasional overstay for a meal. It's going to be the people who regularly park at a given location - as you say - the local supercharger abusers.

You can have free access if your car qualifies, but if you restrict the access of others then your free access at that particular location will be suspended for, say, a month.

I don't mean that you can still plug in, but you will have to pay, I mean that you can plug in, but nothing will happen. No electricity for your VIN at that single location for a fixed period.

So you'll just have to drive to the next Supercharger - just like others have to do when the stalls are blocked by a parked car.

 

[malcolm]

It is on Tesla to find a way to get our cars parked elsewhere if the stall is needed.

And denying your car electricity in your regular parking spot would be an excellent way to get your car parked elsewhere.

 

[Troy]

Let me add a big red arrow so it is easier to see. This is a screenshot from the Tesla website. It was available for a few days as a hidden section in all myTesla accounts. Then Tesla removed it. The screenshot was first posted on Reddit on Aug 30th, 2016 here. Idle fees should be expected to be added to all accounts even if you have free supercharging.

This is against people who leave their car plugged in after supercharging is completed. For example, in the video below at 1:34 the guy says some of the Teslas at the supercharger have been there all day long. That video was watched 600K times. The current situation is not good for Tesla. I don't think any additional action is needed besides idle fees. This looks like a perfect solution. More details should be expected before the end of this month.

 

[TexasEV]

I don't believe we will actually see idling fee's for existing owners. For new owners that have to pay for supercharging then sure I'd expect to see idling fees since it's fairly easy to implement from that point (a charging/billing system is already in place).

Of course the idling fee, or parking fee, should also apply to existing owners. It's the existing owners who leave their car at a supercharger long beyond the completion of charging who have created the problem. We were promised unlimited supercharging, not unlimited parking of a fully charged car at a supercharger stall.

The idea isn't to punish those who are 10 minutes late returning from dinner, it's to stop the abuse of people dropping their car off at a supercharger to drive off in another car and return hours later, or those who supercharge while shopping at the mall and return to it when they're done hours later rather than moving the charged car before they continue shopping.

 

[disagree]

And denying your car electricity in your regular parking spot would be an excellent way to get your car parked elsewhere.

Yikes! But it's my garage!

Anyway, all I meant by Tesla taking care of it was that if their solution ends up requiring near-immediate decoupling from the charger, then it seems Snake-chargers + EAP (and AP1?) could get charged cars moved out of charging stalls. No human necessary.

But until that's possible I'm sure that the solution will involve a reasonable buffer consistent with the purpose of superchargers, such that supercharging on trips doesn't become the equivalent of standing at the pump for 30 minutes.