Supercharger - Frederick, MD

[Nilnoc]

My experience this summer has been different. I think, since I have my X100D set to display state of charge, not miles of range. When it's been very hot, my trip display shows I burn upwards of 500 Wh/mi for the first 5 to 7 miles, and about 400 Wh/mi for up to the first 20 miles of travel. Then the trip Wh/mi shown settles down to what the overall trip average will be. And that's been between 295 and 330 Wh/mi, depending on conditions.

I've taken a 6-day, 1000 mile trip to Canada, and another 6- day, 1000 mile trip around Virginia and into NC. Temperatures for the CA trip averaged 80°. For the VA trip, around 95°. Energy useage reported by the Model X averaged 295 Wh/mi and 330 Wh/mi respectively. Big difference that I attribute mostly to temperature.

On the Virginia trip, we stayed two nights at the Hyatt in Charlottesville. It has two Tesla destination chargers. Sweet. I did something I never do, which was charge to 100 pct., before leaving for N Carolina. I switched to display range miles, and it showed me 292.

In any case, I've always been able to rely on the car to go well over 200 miles on 80 pct of charge, and about 270 miles on the Canada trip.

One other thing that may have relevance: for freeway driving I have the car set to chill mode with regen braking on low.

YMMV. For sure.

 

[T3slaOwner]

My experience this summer has been different. I think, since I have my X100D set to display state of charge, not miles of range. When it's been very hot, my trip display shows I burn upwards of 500 Wh/mi for the first 5 to 7 miles, and about 400 Wh/mi for up to the first 20 miles of travel. Then the trip Wh/mi shown settles down to what the overall trip average will be. And that's been between 295 and 330 Wh/mi, depending on conditions.

Sure, but those numbers are all very good and better than the EPA rating which is what, about 345 Wh/mi or so? At least it is for mine, Model X P100DL. I'd be happy if I got the commensurate range which would be at least 240 miles on 80% of the charge.

I've taken a 6-day, 1000 mile trip to Canada, and another 6- day, 1000 mile trip around Virginia and into NC. Temperatures for the CA trip averaged 80°. For the VA trip, around 95°. Energy useage reported by the Model X averaged 295 Wh/mi and 330 Wh/mi respectively. Big difference that I attribute mostly to temperature.

Don't need to worry with temperature or long trips. One trip or fill will tell you all you need. Do it on a moderate day with no AC/heat. Mileage still does not reflect all the numbers I'm seeing.

On the Virginia trip, we stayed two nights at the Hyatt in Charlottesville. It has two Tesla destination chargers. Sweet. I did something I never do, which was charge to 100 pct., before leaving for N Carolina. I switched to display range miles, and it showed me 292.

In any case, I've always been able to rely on the car to go well over 200 miles on 80 pct of charge, and about 270 miles on the Canada trip.

If your range on 100% is only 292 miles, 80% won't give you 270 miles unless you get some serious mileage improvement. Those numbers require 296 Wh/mi. Ok, that's what you got. Not sure what your point is though.

One other thing that may have relevance: for freeway driving I have the car set to chill mode with regen braking on low.

Why low? That limits the regen and would give worse mileage, no?

YMMV. For sure.

For sure

 

[Nilnoc]

My point is that summer temperatures effect my range. Maybe not your range.

As re setting low regen on freeways, conserving momentum is more valuable than recooperating some charge with regen braking. At least that's how it works for me.

 

[T3slaOwner]

My point is that summer temperatures effect my range. Maybe not your range.

As re setting low regen on freeways, conserving momentum is more valuable than recooperating some charge with regen braking. At least that's how it works for me.

I can't say I follow the reasoning. On the highway there won't be any loss of momentum unless it is needed. If the car needs to slow down setting to low regen only means it will apply the brake if the regen isn't enough.

Do you not use the cruise control?

 

[GlenF]

Thread creep. Maybe start a new topic so this one isn't hijacked? It's not like there aren't a few hundred others talking about range; there's only one about the Frederick superchargers.

 

[MD_M_S]

That is big progress. Now all the cabling from BJ's and the switchboard can be done and terminated. Good deal. They could possibly get a service inspection and set the meter and turn on the juice while we sit and wait for those backordered pedestals.

This sounds great! Is it still on track to complete in September? How long is the backorder for the pedestals? I work in Frederick, off of Buckystown Pike, so this would be awesome to have open soon.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

This sounds great! Is it still on track to complete in September? How long is the backorder for the pedestals? I work in Frederick, off of Buckeystown Pike, so this would be awesome to have open soon.

I would think so, the underground part is now done. we are just waiting on pedestals to come in around mid Sept. they will have to pull the wire and make connections. The site utility should be done before then, which is typically the hold up. Primary power pulling would only be a day's work then another day to terminate. (Same would happen for pedestal wiring and transformer secondaries.) When I worked with AP they were very good and very prompt. They made it happen.

Getting that Tesla crew to come back might be the trick since there working away up in Mass somewhere. I don't know if they would stop just to come back and finish this one or not.

 

[diver110]

I wish they would add some in north Baltimore county. Hunt Valley would be a good choice. There is only one in the entire metropolitan Baltimore area, in what might be called the lower downtown area (Federal Hill). There is also one in York, PA, maybe an hour north. There are a couple of slow chargers at work (something like 30 miles an hour, okay if they are free and I am there all day, typically both things don't occur), and a Royal Farm with a faster charger, maybe 60 miles an hour) in north Baltimore county. A find the limited number of superchargers a bit surprising as Baltimore county has a Tesla dealership, though the dealership does not have a supercharger for the public either. The limited charger availability plus trouble I had with the Tesla 3 seats have caused me to hold off buying one for now.

 

[MD_M_S]

I would think so, the underground part is now done. we are just waiting on pedestals to come in around mid Sept. they will have to pull the wire and make connections. The site utility should be done before then, which is typically the hold up. Primary power pulling would only be a day's work then another day to terminate. (Same would happen for pedestal wiring and transformer secondaries.) When I worked with AP they were very good and very prompt. They made it happen.

Getting that Tesla crew to come back might be the trick since there working away up in Mass somewhere. I don't know if they would stop just to come back and finish this one or not.

I drove by the site yesterday during lunch time. I went to Anchor Bar to have some wings. It does look like everything is all set, except for the charging pedestals.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I drove by the site yesterday during lunch time. I went to Anchor Bar to have some wings. It does look like everything is all set, except for the charging pedestals.

Did you see an electric meter installed? Boonton NJ now has power but no pedestals.

 

[MD_M_S]

I wasn't looking for it, but I did see something other then the Transformer box there. Maybe it was the electric meter. The conduit for each of the pedestals is sticking out of the ground.

 

[smogne41]

I wish they would add some in north Baltimore county. Hunt Valley would be a good choice. There is only one in the entire metropolitan Baltimore area, in what might be called the lower downtown area (Federal Hill). There is also one in York, PA, maybe an hour north. There are a couple of slow chargers at work (something like 30 miles an hour, okay if they are free and I am there all day, typically both things don't occur), and a Royal Farm with a faster charger, maybe 60 miles an hour) in north Baltimore county. A find the limited number of superchargers a bit surprising as Baltimore county has a Tesla dealership, though the dealership does not have a supercharger for the public either. The limited charger availability plus trouble I had with the Tesla 3 seats have caused me to hold off buying one for now.

I agree 100% on Hunt Valley. This would be my most used supercharger if it existed!

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Meter base is set but not on. Everything else is done except the pedestals

.

 

[Big Earl]

View attachment 448899 Meter base is set but not on. Everything else is done except the pedestals

.

That's a pretty large transformer for a 12 stall site. Springfield has a 1,000 kVA transformer for 18 stalls. Looks like they might have future upgrades built into the power supply.

Also, I only see five Supercharger cabinets in the pics, indicating that they're going to start with 10 stalls. Am I missing another row of cabinet rough-ins?

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

That's a pretty large transformer for a 12 stall site. Springfield has a 1,000 kVA transformer for 18 stalls. Looks like they might have future upgrades built into the power supply.

Also, I only see five Supercharger cabinets in the pics, indicating that they're going to start with 10 stalls. Am I missing another row of cabinet rough-ins?

I think 1000 KVA is norm now. What wat it 750 in past? I did look closely at pedestals foundations. They still only have the one conduit. Which is large Enough to upgrade, but they do have provisions for a second conduit that was not used. I would have thought they would have at least put a stub up 90 for future expansion. This would have made an upgrade simpler.

When they start Vienna I’ll watch that one close. If it’s built the same then all the 150KW units will be upgradable.

This site was always 10 stalls, 5 cabinets.

 

[Big Earl]

I think 1000 KVA is norm now. What wat it 750 in past? I did look closely at pedestals foundations. They still only have the one conduit. Which is large Enough to upgrade, but they do have provisions for a second conduit that was not used. I would have thought they would have at least put a stub up 90 for future expansion. This would have made an upgrade simpler.

When they start Vienna I’ll watch that one close. If it’s built the same then all the 150KW units will be upgradable.

This site was always 10 stalls, 5 cabinets.

Ah. Supercharge.info needs to be updated, then ... it lists 12 stalls. @MarcoRP

Since we know Vienna will be V3, I expect it'll be built completely differently, with 4 stalls (or 3 with room for expansion) sharing one cabinet just like the V3 sites being built across the Trans-Canada Highway and Las Vegas.

 

[T3slaOwner]

I think 1000 KVA is norm now. What wat it 750 in past? I did look closely at pedestals foundations. They still only have the one conduit. Which is large Enough to upgrade, but they do have provisions for a second conduit that was not used. I would have thought they would have at least put a stub up 90 for future expansion. This would have made an upgrade simpler.

When they start Vienna I’ll watch that one close. If it’s built the same then all the 150KW units will be upgradable.

This site was always 10 stalls, 5 cabinets.

I believe the initial plan filed with the county was for 12 stalls.

Perhaps you could explain the charges for electricity. I understand they bill extra for "surges" in the power. A friend who wired much of an industrial facility said they would configure electric motors to turn on in succession rather than all at once because the surge of power drove up rate they paid.

How is the surge figured? Is that based on exceeding some portion of the max capacity of the line provided? Or is that simply compared to your average or minimum usage?

I'm wondering if getting a larger feed would translate to lower rates from the "surge" being lower compared to what the max capacity is. Otherwise the surge would be magnified if there were periods of little or no usage which is not what the issue is about I don't think. Certainly supercharges have periods of zero use late at night.

 

[mrElbe]

Industrial customers are charged for the "surge" via a demand meter. This gets reset for every billing cycle.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I had gotten the 10 count off of the plans posted earlier in the thread. I don’t know where the 12 came from. When applying for the permit Tesla might have deliberately over stated the count to allow for the loss of Parking spots ,should the equipment have to be installed in the parking lot as apposed to the grass where it wound up.
I could be wrong be I think the permits are based on number of parking spots, better to overstate the count that to understate it. This could really mess up inspections if you understate the count. The AHJ want there permit fees and will count items on site. You could be making a trip to the permit office if understated. Trust me it’s not worth it.

Each utility can select which ever size transformer they want based on anticipated demand factors. This is mostly set by there past projects. AP this might be there first SC site so they might go conservative and drop a 1000 KW transformer to play it safe. Dominion May now have several sites and can tell what the long term demand other SC locations have been from is from its meters as noted above. They will get more aggressive on there transformer selection and drop the 750 KW unit and take there chances it won’t blow. The problem here is there weren’t that many Tesla’s on the road back then and now the transformers might be to small with the proliferation of electric cars constantly charging. Dominion might eat a service upgrade should the transformer blow.

We use the meter readings to determine generator sizes on buildings. We have to conform to the National electric code and size accordingly. That is always conservative. Public utilities do not have to comply, they do what they want.

This is only one step in the process of many things to account for.

Tesla has done something really ingenious as a compromise and limit the maximum current draw. There networking of the destination chargers creates a Maximum ampacity or a power limited circuit in a sense. This eliminates the guess work and gives a max value a site can handle or allow. I would assume the supercharger sites operate the same. The more cars the lower the maximum charge rate can be per car capping the peak demand to the utility. I don’t know if Tesla uses this with the utility to cap peak demand or not. Reducing the fee they have to pay, by reducing there “peak” amperage spike. Lowering there electric bill and control our KW charge rate, and avoid those penalty surcharges. Installation costs are also lower.

I ramble about this thinking could Tesla on the flip side alter the max charging rate based on what the utility installed on there side. Use big Jim’s comparison with a 750 feeding 18 cars vs Fredrick having 1000 for just 10 cars. Simple math may suggest Fredrick may charge at a faster rate than Springfield if they look at utilities infrastructure build out. We should see within a month or so.

 

[Big Earl]

I had gotten the 10 count off of the plans posted earlier in the thread. I don’t know where the 12 came from. When applying for the permit Tesla might have deliberately over stated the count to allow for the loss of Parking spots ,should the equipment have to be installed in the parking lot as apposed to the grass where it wound up.
I could be wrong be I think the permits are based on number of parking spots, better to overstate the count that to understate it. This could really mess up inspections if you understate the count. The AHJ want there permit fees and will count items on site. You could be making a trip to the permit office if understated. Trust me it’s not worth it.

Each utility can select which ever size transformer they want based on anticipated demand factors. This is mostly set by there past projects. AP this might be there first SC site so they might go conservative and drop a 1000 KW transformer to play it safe. Dominion May now have several sites and can tell what the long term demand other SC locations have been from is from its meters as noted above. They will get more aggressive on there transformer selection and drop the 750 KW unit and take there chances it won’t blow. The problem here is there weren’t that many Tesla’s on the road back then and now the transformers might be to small with the proliferation of electric cars constantly charging. Dominion might eat a service upgrade should the transformer blow.

We use the meter readings to determine generator sizes on buildings. We have to conform to the National electric code and size accordingly. That is always conservative. Public utilities do not have to comply, they do what they want.

This is only one step in the process of many things to account for.

Tesla has done something really ingenious as a compromise and limit the maximum current draw. There networking of the destination chargers creates a Maximum ampacity or a power limited circuit in a sense. This eliminates the guess work and gives a max value a site can handle or allow. I would assume the supercharger sites operate the same. The more cars the lower the maximum charge rate can be per car capping the peak demand to the utility. I don’t know if Tesla uses this with the utility to cap peak demand or not. Reducing the fee they have to pay, by reducing there “peak” amperage spike. Lowering there electric bill and control our KW charge rate, and avoid those penalty surcharges. Installation costs are also lower.

I ramble about this thinking could Tesla on the flip side alter the max charging rate based on what the utility installed on there side. Use big Jim’s comparison with a 750 feeding 18 cars vs Fredrick having 1000 for just 10 cars. Simple math may suggest Fredrick may charge at a faster rate than Springfield if they look at utilities infrastructure build out. We should see within a month or so.

Springfield is 1000 kVA for 18 stalls or 55 kW per stall at full load (short of the 72 kW per stall equipment max). Most other Supercharger sites are sized similarly, with the utility transformer falling short of the site’s max theoretical output.

Frederick is 1000 kVA for 10 stalls or 111 kW per stall at full load, which is well in excess of the equipment’s capability to supply 72 kW per vehicle with all stalls in use. In my opinion, the only reason to size it that big is to accommodate a future expansion.