Supercharger network needs work

[ecarfan]

Once the novelty of road tripping in a Tesla wears off, it's pretty tedious stopping every ~100 miles or so for 15 - 40 minutes. Especially since they place most Superchargers in the worst possible places with nothing to do.

I've been road tripping in my Teslas for almost 4 years and covered tens of thousands of miles: I still don't mind stopping to Supercharge.

If you have to stop every ~100 miles to charge you are driving well over the speed limit. Or you have a rare Model S 40.

I find your statement "they place most Superchargers in the worst possible places" to be a gross exaggeration and a distortion of reality. I have used Superchargers all over California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, and Utah, and my experience is diametrically opposed to your description.

Fortunately there are now alternatives in the long range EV market -- oh wait, there is only one other, the Chevy Bolt -- and other companies offer usable high-speed DC charging networks -- oh wait, no other company does -- so at least you have choices.

 

[Naonak]

I've been road tripping in my Teslas for almost 4 years and covered tens of thousands of miles: I still don't mind stopping to Supercharge.

If you have to stop every ~100 miles to charge you are driving well over the speed limit. Or you have a rare Model S 40.

I find your statement "they place most Superchargers in the worst possible places" to be a gross exaggeration and a distortion of reality. I have used Superchargers all over California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, and Utah, and my experience is diametrically opposed to your description.

Fortunately there are now alternatives in the long range EV market -- oh wait, there is only one other, the Chevy Bolt -- and other companies offer usable high-speed DC charging networks -- oh wait, no other company does -- so at least you have choices.

I see you're from California, so you don't really have an understanding what most of the country is like for the Supercharger network. The states you listed, with the exception of Utah, are all west coast states, which is completely unlike the rest of the country (with the exception of the East Coast), so your experience with the network is not representative of the vast majority of the geographic nation.

I have traveled from North Carolina to Colorado and many of the states in between on the Supercharger network. With the exception of North Carolina, I can tell you that almost all of the Superchargers are at inconvenient locations and spaced in just such a way as to make stopping at every charger necessary in a P90DL, which means you have to stop every 100 to 120 miles or so, because you can't skip one, as the distance is too great.

I'm glad your experience in Tesla heavy areas is great, but it is not representative of 90% of the rest of the US geography. It's a crappy experience. I'll give you a good example, as this represents the vast majority of the stops between the coasts:

St. Charles SC: Smashburger. Grocery Store. Stripmall with questionable shops. Closes early.
Columbia SC: Holiday Inn. If you want to walk, a gas station. Jimmy Johns.
Independence SC: Bass Pro Shop. No food.
Topeka SC: Arbys, Home Depot ... yep, good times there.
Salina SC: Holiday Inn, walk down the street about 1/4 a mile to a gas station with a Popeyes chicken. You can stop in at IHOP if you want.
Hays SC: Applebees. If you want to walk... Wendys and a gas station. Yay.
Goodland SC: Holiday Inn. If you're feeling frisky, Steak n' Shake.
Limon SC: Arbys. Change it up and hit McDonalds or the gas station for a delicious microwave burrito.
Denver Airport SC: Hotel. ... Hotel... and another Hotel. There's 1 restaurant close by, I can't remember what it is.

No, I'm not leaving out any other things to do around those SCs. There is either more of the same or nothing else to do. Those SCs are between 100 and 140 miles apart. There's only so much god damned eating I can do every 1.5 to 2 hours and I don't want to stay in a hotel at a frigging Supercharger. I can not skip a SC, since I won't have enough juice to make it to the 2nd one... but if I do stop, I'm not necessarily near 0 on my SOC, so the charge rate can be crap... that is, if the SC isn't having problems to begin with.

That's the life of most of the nation for Supercharging across country. I understand it's worlds better in the states you listed, but those states are nothing like the rest of the country. I speak from 50,000+ miles of Tesla roadtrip experience throughout the midwest, west, and towards the East Coast.

 

[TaoJones]

Just drove ~6,500 miles in less than 2 weeks through 7 states and 2 provinces. California to British Columbia/Alberta (via OR and WA) and back constituted the first leg, then 2,000 miles in less than 72 hours from California --> Idaho (via NV, AZ, and UT) for the eclipse and back.

Aside from the total eclipse being the obvious highlight, along with the very kind folks associated with the Kamloops car show, it was fun being the first car as far north as possible on the continent (Island Lake, AB) *via superchargers only* by way of the brand new SC at Edmonton.

Worst trip in almost 3 years (and ~200 SC sites visited) insofar as supercharger pedestal/site quality was concerned.

Here's what I did and sadly have to resort to doing - I encourage you to do the same prior to any long trip, unless and until they implement the feature request described later in this post: Simply email or call Tesla for a health check for the SCs along your route. They'll tell you what sites are completely impacted or partially impacted (e.g., avoid tower 3 (3A, 3B) or use 1B or 4A).

The feature request (already logged by someone else) is to display an orange or yellow mark in what now is the series of red/grey marks that indicate the number of stalls in use. Unfortunately, this simple solution does not address the variance 'tweenst numbering formats (1A 1B 2A 2B versus 1A 2A 1B 2B), but it's a start. Of course, if a site is down completely, it's supposed to be a grey SC icon rather than red but that's not always the case either, unfortunately (see Erie, PA in May).

I don't have time to disconnect and reconnect umpteen times due to bad pedestals. That time comes right out of my sleep budget when I'm trying as it is to maintain the gold standard of 50mph gross time (1000 miles = 20 hours) across multiple days. Further, if we know a site is compromised in advance, often we can route around it (e.g, the Ohio to NY corridor) using other SCs without having to futz around with poorly-maintained Chademo* or questionable L2s. No warning is a Bad Thing.

The representatives with whom you'll speak (Tesla Ownership Support Line, Option 2, Option 1) are understanding and completely supportive of this feature request getting implemented as it will save everyone time and frustration.

The usual caveats apply - have your route displayed in Nav before you call, so you can just read off the SCs in question (e.g., Rancho, Primm, St. George, Nephi, Tremonton, Idaho Falls) and have a pen or tablet or other device (e.g., your finger and a smartphone) handy to take down what they tell you. Also realize that the information you receive is merely a snapshot in time and that the reps have zero control over what they tell you. Don't shoot the messenger, in other words. That said, I did get bad information from one rep, so use common sense - if they tell you the SC in Calgary has 2 pedestals, then realize that they've probably directed you to a closed SvC instead of the actual SC up the road. 99% of the time, the information is good and the reps as excellent as always.

The 3-5 minutes you spend prior to a 1500-mile trip will be well worth it. If you encounter bad pedestals along the way, report them. Yes, the SC team should know before you do, but that's not a guarantee, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease when the poor tech has to plan his route while braving 115F temperatures to go fix that bad pedestal at Primm either before or after an early dinner at St. George, Utah in the middle of his 14-hour day.

Once the aforementioned feature request is implemented, the onus will be upon us drivers to pay attention to the information displayed in Nav. Until that time, however, this is on Tesla and it's an easy call to make, no pun intended, 24/7.

* One example of a well-maintained network of full-strength, fully-functional Chademo would be that maintained by AeroVironment along the Oregon coast. While no longer quite as necessary due to the SCs now along that route, those Chademo can be used on an unlimited basis for $19.95/month - that's as close to free as it's ever going to get. Kudos to AeroVironment for showing how it can be done, and kudos to the host businesses for deploying appropriate signage and for fearlessly towing ICErs who evidently can't read.

 

[Sparky]

Just drove ~6,500 miles in less than 2 weeks through 7 states and 2 provinces. California to British Columbia/Alberta (via OR and WA) and back constituted the first leg, then 2,000 miles in less than 72 hours from California --> Idaho (via NV, AZ, and UT) for the eclipse and back.

Aside from the total eclipse being the obvious highlight, along with the very kind folks associated with the Kamloops car show, it was fun being the first car as far north as possible on the continent (Island Lake, AB) *via superchargers only* by way of the brand new SC at Edmonton.

Worst trip in almost 3 years (and ~200 SC sites visited) insofar as supercharger pedestal/site quality was concerned.

Here's what I did and sadly have to resort to doing - I encourage you to do the same prior to any long trip, unless and until they implement the feature request described later in this post: Simply email or call Tesla for a health check for the SCs along your route. They'll tell you what sites are completely impacted or partially impacted (e.g., avoid tower 3 (3A, 3B) or use 1B or 4A).

The feature request (already logged by someone else) is to display an orange or yellow mark in what now is the series of red/grey marks that indicate the number of stalls in use. Unfortunately, this simple solution does not address the variance 'tweenst numbering formats (1A 1B 2A 2B versus 1A 2A 1B 2B), but it's a start. Of course, if a site is down completely, it's supposed to be a grey SC icon rather than red but that's not always the case either, unfortunately (see Erie, PA in May).

I don't have time to disconnect and reconnect umpteen times due to bad pedestals. That time comes right out of my sleep budget when I'm trying as it is to maintain the gold standard of 50mph gross time (1000 miles = 20 hours) across multiple days. Further, if we know a site is compromised in advance, often we can route around it (e.g, the Ohio to NY corridor) using other SCs without having to futz around with poorly-maintained Chademo* or questionable L2s. No warning is a Bad Thing.

The representatives with whom you'll speak (Tesla Ownership Support Line, Option 2, Option 1) are understanding and completely supportive of this feature request getting implemented as it will save everyone time and frustration.

The usual caveats apply - have your route displayed in Nav before you call, so you can just read off the SCs in question (e.g., Rancho, Primm, St. George, Nephi, Tremonton, Idaho Falls) and have a pen or tablet or other device (e.g., your finger and a smartphone) handy to take down what they tell you. Also realize that the information you receive is merely a snapshot in time and that the reps have zero control over what they tell you. Don't shoot the messenger, in other words. That said, I did get bad information from one rep, so use common sense - if they tell you the SC in Calgary has 2 pedestals, then realize that they've probably directed you to a closed SvC instead of the actual SC up the road. 99% of the time, the information is good and the reps as excellent as always.

The 3-5 minutes you spend prior to a 1500-mile trip will be well worth it. If you encounter bad pedestals along the way, report them. Yes, the SC team should know before you do, but that's not a guarantee, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease when the poor tech has to plan his route while braving 115F temperatures to go fix that bad pedestal at Primm either before or after an early dinner at St. George, Utah in the middle of his 14-hour day.

Once the aforementioned feature request is implemented, the onus will be upon us drivers to pay attention to the information displayed in Nav. Until that time, however, this is on Tesla and it's an easy call to make, no pun intended, 24/7.

* One example of a well-maintained network of full-strength, fully-functional Chademo would be that maintained by AeroVironment along the Oregon coast. While no longer quite as necessary due to the SCs now along that route, those Chademo can be used on an unlimited basis for $19.95/month - that's as close to free as it's ever going to get. Kudos to AeroVironment for showing how it can be done, and kudos to the host businesses for deploying appropriate signage and for fearlessly towing ICErs who evidently can't read.

In my 4+ years of Supercharging, the network does seem much worse. Communication of up/down status wouldn't be necessary if things just worked as well as they did a couple years ago IMO.
Is there a consistent reason why so many of the charging stalls I stopped at: Primm, Barstow especially, started strong at 100+ kW and quickly throttled back to 48 kW?
That's giant pain. I was the only car at Primm and couldn't find a spot that would get me on the road in under 45 minutes.
Is it a temperatrure issue? St George and Nephi were fine but the temps were in the 70's. Primm and Barstow were 90F and up.
I don't see how Tesla can charge $ for the Supercharging when it's this slow. Nothing "Super" about it.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I see you're from California, so you don't really have an understanding what most of the country is like for the Supercharger network. The states you listed, with the exception of Utah, are all west coast states, which is completely unlike the rest of the country (with the exception of the East Coast), so your experience with the network is not representative of the vast majority of the geographic nation.

I have traveled from North Carolina to Colorado and many of the states in between on the Supercharger network. With the exception of North Carolina, I can tell you that almost all of the Superchargers are at inconvenient locations and spaced in just such a way as to make stopping at every charger necessary in a P90DL, which means you have to stop every 100 to 120 miles or so, because you can't skip one, as the distance is too great.

I'm glad your experience in Tesla heavy areas is great, but it is not representative of 90% of the rest of the US geography. It's a crappy experience. I'll give you a good example, as this represents the vast majority of the stops between the coasts:

St. Charles SC: Smashburger. Grocery Store. Stripmall with questionable shops. Closes early.
Columbia SC: Holiday Inn. If you want to walk, a gas station. Jimmy Johns.
Independence SC: Bass Pro Shop. No food.
Topeka SC: Arbys, Home Depot ... yep, good times there.
Salina SC: Holiday Inn, walk down the street about 1/4 a mile to a gas station with a Popeyes chicken. You can stop in at IHOP if you want.
Hays SC: Applebees. If you want to walk... Wendys and a gas station. Yay.
Goodland SC: Holiday Inn. If you're feeling frisky, Steak n' Shake.
Limon SC: Arbys. Change it up and hit McDonalds or the gas station for a delicious microwave burrito.
Denver Airport SC: Hotel. ... Hotel... and another Hotel. There's 1 restaurant close by, I can't remember what it is.

No, I'm not leaving out any other things to do around those SCs. There is either more of the same or nothing else to do. Those SCs are between 100 and 140 miles apart. There's only so much god damned eating I can do every 1.5 to 2 hours and I don't want to stay in a hotel at a frigging Supercharger. I can not skip a SC, since I won't have enough juice to make it to the 2nd one... but if I do stop, I'm not necessarily near 0 on my SOC, so the charge rate can be crap... that is, if the SC isn't having problems to begin with.

That's the life of most of the nation for Supercharging across country. I understand it's worlds better in the states you listed, but those states are nothing like the rest of the country. I speak from 50,000+ miles of Tesla roadtrip experience throughout the midwest, west, and towards the East Coast.

Actually placing them near hotels is not so bad in the middle of the night because you have a place to use the restroom. Otherwise you use any bushes and that can get smelly.

What tesla needs is the supercharger v3 where you stay 15 minutes and be on your way for at least another 200 plus miles. And of course none of these throttling problem like the fast charging counter in your thread.

 

[DarkMatter]

Every one of these threads seem to have the same thing:

- a few people who appear to have car problems, which Tesla needs to find better ways to diagnose, ideally automatically
- some stations with reduced service, where Tesla should be adding local battery to so they can mitigate it more often
- some people who point out that the coasts (where most of the cars are) have a better experience than the middle of the country
- other people who say that California is the worst because everything is busy
- and a familiar dozen people chiming in about how awful the network is

The issues are real, but talking over the same ground again and again here isn't doing anything. Let's see if we can figure out a better way to do this.

 

[sorka]

An interesting thought... Although the couple of times I've experienced this I've remedied by moving to a different supercharger stall, not changing anything on the car...

Me too but those are the cases where the expected charge rate never happens in the first place rather than when it does but then quickly drops.

 

[sorka]

Once the novelty of road tripping in a Tesla wears off, it's pretty tedious stopping every ~100 miles or so for 15 - 40 minutes. Especially since they place most Superchargers in the worst possible places with nothing to do.

Why place Superchargers at a hotel? I don't need it at a hotel. I can use L2 charging at a hotel. Put the Supercharger at a theater, mall, shopping center, arcade, or... I don't know, a FRIGGING COFFEE SHOP!

When you compare it to other level 3 networks which are mostly not near the freeways and are often at auto dealers and only have 1 or 2 stalls, are frequently broken, and often not open 24 hours, I think Tesla has done a terrific job picking locations for the most part.

For the first 2 years of ownership over 35K miles, the first 100 miles of a charge provided that I only charged just enough to get to that SC from the previous SC only took 10 mins. The next 70 miles took 20 minutes so more than twice as long for only 70% more range over the first 100 miles. This is why it's important to charge to only what you need on long legs unless you're at a point where you're going to sit down to a 45 to 60 minute meal.

The problem now is that when there are equipment issues, that really fast rate of range addition is what's most leveraged by the health of the system. If you pulled in at say 70%, a compromised SC still likely going to give you the maximum your battery can take for its taper.

 

[DarkMatter]

You're still ahead if you assume the station will work well. Pull in with low SOC and a working station, get a fast charge. Pull in with a high SOC and a working station, get a slower charge. There's no available upside for starting with a high battery state, there is for starting low.

 

[Naonak]

When you compare it to other level 3 networks which are mostly not near the freeways and are often at auto dealers and only have 1 or 2 stalls, are frequently broken, and often not open 24 hours, I think Tesla has done a terrific job picking locations for the most part.

For the first 2 years of ownership over 35K miles, the first 100 miles of a charge provided that I only charged just enough to get to that SC from the previous SC only took 10 mins. The next 70 miles took 20 minutes so more than twice as long for only 70% more range over the first 100 miles. This is why it's important to charge to only what you need on long legs unless you're at a point where you're going to sit down to a 45 to 60 minute meal.

The problem now is that when there are equipment issues, that really fast rate of range addition is what's most leveraged by the health of the system. If you pulled in at say 70%, a compromised SC still likely going to give you the maximum your battery can take for its taper.

Again, I understand what you are saying, but you don't have any frame of reference for what the country is like, living in California.

"Only enough" to get to the next station is a 20+ minute proposition, no matter what and here is why:

1. You didn't travel far enough, so you are charging slowly due to SoC being high.
2. You traveled far enough for a low SoC, so you need to charge to 70 or 80% to get to the next SC.

Then Superchargers between the coasts are spaced so that an S60, or maybe even an S40 can make it to the next one. That makes life miserable for the larger batteries. Not low enough for a fast charge, not high enough to skip a stop.

The real solution here is more Superchargers so the big battery people can pick where to stop for optimal charging. But that would mean doubling the number of Superchargers between the coasts.

 

[sorka]

Again, I understand what you are saying, but you don't have any frame of reference for what the country is like, living in California.

I'm confused, does the 8K of supercharging miles I've traveled in Arizona, Oregon,and Washington not count a outside of California

 

[Max*]

I don't understand why you're charging to 80% to make a 100 mile trip. I think that's where the disconnect is.

On my 70D, if I need to make a 100 mile trip, that'd be around 50% and that would be with buffer. So maybe a 20 minute stop if the SpC is working?

 

[DarkMatter]

The real solution here is more Superchargers so the big battery people can pick where to stop for optimal charging. But that would mean doubling the number of Superchargers between the coasts.

A solution which has been proposed again and again, even by Tesla.

 

[Naonak]

I'm confused, does the 8K of supercharging miles I've traveled in Arizona, Oregon,and Washington not count a outside of California

No, they don't. Those are coastal states and are nothing like the rest of the country. I can't speak to Arizona, as i haven't driven that far west, but from North Carolina border to Colorado is miserable up and down the entire country. You just don't have any concept of what a pain it is when you live in a Supercharger dense area. I live in Kansas City. The nearest Supercharger to this major city and the one of the richest counties in the US, where most of the Teslas live in this region, is 40 miles away. And it is the only one in the area.

I don't understand why you're charging to 80% to make a 100 mile trip. I think that's where the disconnect is.

On my 70D, if I need to make a 100 mile trip, that'd be around 50% and that would be with buffer. So maybe a 20 minute stop if the SpC is working?

I don't. But instead of trying to explain it, just see my log of the most recent trip to Denver in the before/after throttle comparison thread. That should explain it. That trip is like every other Supercharger stop between Denver and the East Coast.

 

[Max*]

I don't. But instead of trying to explain it, just see my log of the most recent trip to Denver in the before/after throttle comparison thread. That should explain it. That trip is like every other Supercharger stop between Denver and the East Coast.

I'm not going through 100 pages to find one post.

 

[MattMatt]

Just finished my first Tesla Road trip from So Cal to Idaho for the eclipse. I used plugshare to check what other users were saying about chargers, this let me know in advance if there were certain chargers having trouble, or charging fast. Additionally it is super easy to record your own charging experience for others which I typically just typed in my stall number and the approx charge rate.

I also called Tesla for the two stations that I had trouble with, in addition to recording it in Plugshare so others know about it.

Would it be nice if Tesla did this in car, sure, but in the meantime I have a solution. And my 3800 mile road trip was a success thanks to having the Supercharger Network. My Leaf would never have done that, ever.

Matt

 

[tnt1971]

I don't have the issues most here have had with locations and the distance between, but almost all of my travel has been in the NE. My full charge range is over 270 and my 90% is just under 250. For a trip, I usually leave early and get 3 hours before a charge stop with a breakfast. Then I get another 3 hours with a charge stop and a late lunch. When the chargers are working, a meal gets you from 10-90% without issue, and that was the whole point of my OP, because when the chargers are running at half speed you are cooling your heels.

Some of the chargers are in bad spots because they require crossing MAJOR roads to get to restaurants, etc. As a recovering lawyer, I predict someone is going to get hit crossing one of those roads or a large mall parking lot complex and sue Tesla. Not a great case but enough to get a settlement.

 

[hpartsch]

Just finished my first Tesla Road trip from So Cal to Idaho for the eclipse. I used plugshare to check what other users were saying about chargers, this let me know in advance if there were certain chargers having trouble, or charging fast. Additionally it is super easy to record your own charging experience for others which I typically just typed in my stall number and the approx charge rate.

I also called Tesla for the two stations that I had trouble with, in addition to recording it in Plugshare so others know about it.

Would it be nice if Tesla did this in car, sure, but in the meantime I have a solution. And my 3800 mile road trip was a success thanks to having the Supercharger Network. My Leaf would never have done that, ever.

Matt

That's a great suggestion. Maybe someone from Tesla will see it. It is a waste of resources for a phone call to Tesla to report the issues. The last few times I've called, the wait times were pretty long.

 

[David99]

What many here posted (not just in this thread) is exactly my experience. I've had my car for 3.5 years and drove 128k miles, the majority of it on Superchargers. The network worked really well in the beginning. No matter where and what the temperatures were, I always got a great charge rate. Today, the situation is different. The majority of cases I plug in, the charge rate starts high and then drops down quickly way below what it used to be at the same battery level. It has become a major pain and has added extra time on every road trip.

I read a lot of possible explanations here but they are all just theories as the exact same hardware and same cars would charge just fine and fast for years. Heat isn't the problem for sure as I see the reduced rates at any temperatures. It's can't be my car because there are way too many other reporting the same issues. If it was here and there I'd be OK, but as I said, I'm getting the reduced rate about 7 times out of 10 when I plug in at any given Supercharger.

Now what makes this issue even worse to me is that Tesla is in complete denial. I called them many times about it and they only have their standard answers.
'that charge rate is normal' (heck no I have charged much faster at the same battery level)
'when other cars are charging power can be reduced' (I'm the only on here!)
'the high temperature can reduce charge speed' (I charged at full speed on days way above 100 degree in full sun)
'your battery might be hot from long driving' (No, I monitor my battery temperature from the CAN bus and it's the same as always)

It's just annoying when so many people clearly see the issue yet Tesla acts like they have no clue.

 

[Boatguy]

No, they don't. Those are coastal states and are nothing like the rest of the country. I can't speak to Arizona, as i haven't driven that far west, but from North Carolina border to Colorado is miserable up and down the entire country. You just don't have any concept of what a pain it is when you live in a Supercharger dense area. I live in Kansas City. The nearest Supercharger to this major city and the one of the richest counties in the US, where most of the Teslas live in this region, is 40 miles away. And it is the only one in the area.

I don't. But instead of trying to explain it, just see my log of the most recent trip to Denver in the before/after throttle comparison thread. That should explain it. That trip is like every other Supercharger stop between Denver and the East Coast.

Clearly the "coastal" Tesla road trip experience has a different set of problems than the "interior" Tesla road trip experience. They are both valid, both real, and need to be addressed by Tesla.

For myself, the CHAdeMO adapter has been very useful to plug the gaps. But the solution to the SC network's reliability and availability is entirely in the hands of Tesla. Email Tesla with your complaints. I call them immediately whenever I experience a pedestal that is problematic, it helps fill the time while waiting to charge.