ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I think you are vastly underestimating the cost of building and maintaining the network. Frankly even at these newly increased prices I think the whole operation is still significantly in the red.
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Supercharger price hikes: what's your opinion?
- Thread starter Shock-On-T
- Start date
Seven7
Member
I would rather pay extra and have more super chargers.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Poorly chosen survey answers (missing a number obvious choices, one example being "I charge at superchargers and think it's reasonable"). Also, survey aimed at the wrong audience - most Model S owners have free supercharging today.
Garbage-in => garbage out. Bad survey => meaningless results.
Garbage-in => garbage out. Bad survey => meaningless results.
Naekuh
Member
The tone in this post just doesn't match the avatar.
lol.... i cant think of many people who would subject their doberman like that, and have it be chill enough to take a picture and then some.
and yes she's a 75 lb pure breed doberman pincher. Yet she's as goofy as they get and then some.
My friends think she's a black and tan coon hound and not a doberman in how goofy she tends to get.
i would assume most model S owners because of this would totally be in for the rate hike so they would see less lines at the supercharger when we need them, instead of doing to tesla line at them.
(i know its thinking selfishy, and im sorry, i'll try to not supercharge my car as much as penance... well honestly because i don't want to wait in that line, which can take up to an hour or more, and end up me wasting 2 hours + to charge my car for a free 7-8 dollars it cost to do it at home or better yet free at my office... my time is honestly worth more then 3-4 dollars an hour.)
Honestly, if you live in so cali, and you hit up the burbank / culver city super charger, the lines can get excessive, and peoples patience / temper as well.
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My 2 cents.
- Terrible survey. The majority of surveys are similar but this is worse than average.
- Rate hikes are large. I like the idea that it maybe an experiment to see how much pricing effects congestion. Tesla loves to experiment with pricing.
- The supercharger network is a still probably a money loser. The idea that $2k is the true cost for FUSC is untrue. How could Tesla have done a perfect job estimating the cost? They had no idea how many they would build - let alone how much they would cost.
- Electricity rates for commercial customers is not the same as residential. Demand charges have to overwhelm actual use charges and Tesla has to peak pretty high. Even the NC superchargers were pretty full at 2 pm on Black Friday.
- Remember that wholesale rates for electricity hover in the 4 cents a kwh range. There is a very large cost for distribution. The SC network's primary cost is distribution rather than electricity rates.
- The are 2 groups that this has any reasonable meaning for - people who roadtrip regularly (a tiny but vocal number) and people with no home charging (a small number). Everyone else probably doesn't care much (I don't as I have FUSC and charge at home). I am more interested in the overall EV picture and Tesla's interesting strategies.
- SC's going solar has a large capital investment and is probably not reasonable in many of their leased locations.
- Terrible survey. The majority of surveys are similar but this is worse than average.
- Rate hikes are large. I like the idea that it maybe an experiment to see how much pricing effects congestion. Tesla loves to experiment with pricing.
- The supercharger network is a still probably a money loser. The idea that $2k is the true cost for FUSC is untrue. How could Tesla have done a perfect job estimating the cost? They had no idea how many they would build - let alone how much they would cost.
- Electricity rates for commercial customers is not the same as residential. Demand charges have to overwhelm actual use charges and Tesla has to peak pretty high. Even the NC superchargers were pretty full at 2 pm on Black Friday.
- Remember that wholesale rates for electricity hover in the 4 cents a kwh range. There is a very large cost for distribution. The SC network's primary cost is distribution rather than electricity rates.
- The are 2 groups that this has any reasonable meaning for - people who roadtrip regularly (a tiny but vocal number) and people with no home charging (a small number). Everyone else probably doesn't care much (I don't as I have FUSC and charge at home). I am more interested in the overall EV picture and Tesla's interesting strategies.
- SC's going solar has a large capital investment and is probably not reasonable in many of their leased locations.
The survey is useless, so i won't vote.
I have free SuC but only use them on long trips, otherwise i charge at home.
But i'm against the SuC price hike.
I think charging at SuC should cost about the same as charging at home.
I think SuC congestion should be fighted with idle fees or, in extreme cases, limiting charging times, not higher cost in general.
Many people (especially in Europe, where gas prices are much higher than in the US) buy a Tesla and endure the EV natural restrains, to save on the running costs.
If Tesla keeps upping up SuC prices they will lose a lot of customers.
I have free SuC but only use them on long trips, otherwise i charge at home.
But i'm against the SuC price hike.
I think charging at SuC should cost about the same as charging at home.
I think SuC congestion should be fighted with idle fees or, in extreme cases, limiting charging times, not higher cost in general.
Many people (especially in Europe, where gas prices are much higher than in the US) buy a Tesla and endure the EV natural restrains, to save on the running costs.
If Tesla keeps upping up SuC prices they will lose a lot of customers.
In Switzerland the SuC price/kWh went from .30 to .34 CHF, a 13.33% jump.
Each European country (including those using €) now have their own local prices [.27.. .34€] but it seems to average around .30€/kWh, which is the same as in CH.
Hopefully there will be a rapid buildout of capacity this year in exchange for the increase.
Each European country (including those using €) now have their own local prices [.27.. .34€] but it seems to average around .30€/kWh, which is the same as in CH.
Hopefully there will be a rapid buildout of capacity this year in exchange for the increase.
MDMGSO47
Member
In my best Mr. Rodgers' voice: "Can you say class action lawsuit, boys and girls?" Tesla can't exactly unilaterally cancel its agreement to provide free supercharging to the folks who bought cars with free supercharging.
That's not very nice. Someone is just trying to run a survey as they thought best.
I don't fit into your poll, I charge at home, rarely supercharge and when I do it's free, and I think it was dumb to increase costs higher than gasoline. The options assume there are no Tesla owners from 2017 or earlier.
Tesla is still trying to release a cheap car for people that will be affected most by this change: people that may not have a garage to charge in, and considered cheap supercharging a way to get into EVs without trickle charging with extension cords et cetera. The price model is strange, the timing is stupid.
Tesla is still trying to release a cheap car for people that will be affected most by this change: people that may not have a garage to charge in, and considered cheap supercharging a way to get into EVs without trickle charging with extension cords et cetera. The price model is strange, the timing is stupid.
Well for the 3 Performance, they offered to exchange free supercharging for $5,000. I would probably take that deal.
Having free supercharging for life of my car I'm not affected, but we need to think about the long term sustainability. The network is costly to build and it takes money to keep it up plus cost for electricity. We can't look how much electricity is and say superchargers are too expensive. It's like a bottle of water you buy at a gas station. It's more expensive than your local grocery store. You are not paying for the water, which is actually fractions of a penny. You are paying for the convenience to have a cool bottle right where you want it. Same with 120 kW DC charging right where you need it. It's a premium service and convenience. It's not just electricity.
Looking at it from that point of view, the rates are not out of line IMHO.
Looking at it from that point of view, the rates are not out of line IMHO.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
I agree!
And while tesla is at it they should start charging people a few cents for every mile driven on autopilot!
I mean after all people only paid for autopilot, they didn’t pay to USE autopilot
ElectricEel
Member
I'm one of those people. It's not a few bucks though. I spend 500 a month on gas. I ONLY fill at Costco. I save an average of 100-200 a MONTH on gas alone.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Really? You spend $500 a month and would spend $600 to $700 a month -- that's 20% to 40% more -- buying gas elsewhere? No Costco where I live but I didn't realize that the cost savings was that large.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Tesla's original intent was for supercharging to support long distance driving (the original marketing was "Free Long Distance Charging on the Supercharger Network"). Evidently Tesla didn't anticipate owners without access to overnight charging or a small number of commercial operators driving high mileage every day.
For owners taking occasional road trips and doing most charging at home, the supercharging price increases won't have a huge impact, as long as prices stay close to or below the cost of refueling ICEs on road trips.
The impact will be much larger for those owners using superchargers for all or most of their charging - and this could impact Tesla's sales to those owners, until Tesla can provide a lower cost ($35K Model 3) which brings the total cost of ownership closer to that of an ICE. Though as more EVs are sold, it's also likely there will be more options available for overnight charging.
For commercial operators taking advantage of free or very low cost supercharging, they will have to adjust their business models to account for the higher costs - it was never reasonable to expect Tesla would absorb those costs (especially when commercial vehicles quickly run up hundreds of thousands of miles on superchargers).
Long term, it's critical that the supercharger network generate enough revenue to cover the cost of creating new supercharging stations and maintaining the existing stations. Clearly with free or low cost supercharging, that wasn't happening.
For owners taking occasional road trips and doing most charging at home, the supercharging price increases won't have a huge impact, as long as prices stay close to or below the cost of refueling ICEs on road trips.
The impact will be much larger for those owners using superchargers for all or most of their charging - and this could impact Tesla's sales to those owners, until Tesla can provide a lower cost ($35K Model 3) which brings the total cost of ownership closer to that of an ICE. Though as more EVs are sold, it's also likely there will be more options available for overnight charging.
For commercial operators taking advantage of free or very low cost supercharging, they will have to adjust their business models to account for the higher costs - it was never reasonable to expect Tesla would absorb those costs (especially when commercial vehicles quickly run up hundreds of thousands of miles on superchargers).
Long term, it's critical that the supercharger network generate enough revenue to cover the cost of creating new supercharging stations and maintaining the existing stations. Clearly with free or low cost supercharging, that wasn't happening.
dark cloud
Active Member
In these parts Costco averages about 3-6 cents per litre cheaper than nearby gas stations. At 1.30 per litre that is a maximum of 5% savings. Is it really that much better where you are at? or do you need to redo your calculation?
If in fact Costco gas in your area is 29% cheaper I think the lineups would be hours long, and they definitely need to raise the price.
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