Supercharger - Yermo, CA (LIVE 21 Nov 2017, 18 V2 Stalls)

[ucmndd]

Expanding superchargers is like building power plants. People only care about peak times. Is it really worth it for Tesla to spend the money to expand a Supercharger for that 1 day a year when there is a line if the other 364 days a year the stalls are mostly empty?

I agree. A ten minute wait for a stall two or three days a year is barely worth discussing.

People will happily line up for 10+ minutes 365 days a year to save ten cents a gallon at Costco.

 

[Uncle Paul]

1-3:00 is usually the busiest time to charge on freeways during holiday traffic peaks. People often have breakfast, then get on the road about 9:00 am. They will begin to run low on charge about 1-3:00 That is when the lines appear. Later on the day, most chargers stand empty until dinnertime when travelers want to charge while grabbing a bite.

Best to watch your screen as you travel, so you can see which of your choices has the most open slots. Often wise to stop a little early to get some juice, then cruise by the full Superchargers, then stop again when there are more empty slots.

Same thing will happen when everybody tends to leave Vegas to come home to SoCal on a Sunday night. The road packs up solid and it takes 2-3X the time to get home. If you have the luxury, wait till Monday morning when there is no rush and you can more easily cruise home.

I expect to see full Supercharger posts again on the heavy New Years traveling to and from Las Vegas or other celebration gathering spots. Gotta plan your charging strategy for these ultra heavy travel times. We even saw charging lines when so many people wanted to drive to the best Solar eclipse viewing from several states away last year.

Also see this for Superbowl games, Major music festivals or evacuation periods. Clever people will avoid the lines.

 

[DrComputer]

I sure hope so! Otherwise electric cars are not going to be successful as replacement transportation!

But can't the same be said about the hour + long lines at airports during holiday peak times? If we followed that logic, shouldn't we expand the size of every airport just to deal with the few peak travel days?

 

[smilepak]

This is where having 350+ or 400+ miles battery comes in handy. Less frequent stops and help alleviate the congestion.

 

[ecarfan]

Moderator note: please stay on topic, which is the Yermo Supercharger. Thank you.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Regarding charging “elsewhere” other than Yermo - there is nowhere else! Unfortunately there are no other chargers available before Yermo and Barstow as alternatives.

Clearly something is not optimal because Baker had a lot of open slots, while the other smaller stations were full.

Moderator note: please stay on topic, which is the Yermo Supercharger. Thank you.

Yes. Yermo Supercharger now needs more capacity! Last time I was there, I was the only one there. At 7AM on a Wednesday morning I think it was. That does not mean it is good enough. Note there was also no one at the gas station. Should they only have one pump?

I think the general attitude to avoid peak times here is a little silly! I mean, sometimes you have no choice - and I get the sense it could have been MUCH worse than what I experienced.

Hopefully more charging infrastructure will be built up. I understand having to build to the absolute peaks is probably not possible - but note this is not really a problem for gas stations and is a major usability factor for EVs on road trips. Tesla has 250kW Supercharging for a reason!

Also, this problem will be a problem nearly ALL THE TIME on busier routes if capacity is not built in advance. Electric cars are coming in a big way...

 

[crackers8199]

Regarding charging “elsewhere” other than Yermo - there is nowhere else! Unfortunately there are no other chargers available before Yermo and Barstow as alternatives.

Baker and Primm are both alternatives. Is there any newer Tesla model at this point that can't make it from Baker to Rancho, Fontana or San Bernardino, or vice versa?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Baker and Primm are both alternatives. Is there any newer Tesla model at this point that can't make it from Baker to Rancho, Fontana or San Bernardino, or vice versa?

No these are not alternatives heading northbound. Coming from San Diego it is entirely possible you could not make Baker. I happened to be able to but only barely and I had other issues. There is nowhere else to stop.

They’ll make Yermo or Barstow bigger soon enough I would guess.

 

[cpa]

No these are not alternatives heading northbound. Coming from San Diego it is entirely possible you could not make Baker. I happened to be able to but only barely and I had other issues. There is nowhere else to stop.

They’ll make Yermo or Barstow bigger soon enough I would guess.

I believe that Victorville or Hesperia is slated for a Supercharger. Barstow has been expanded twice from its original four stalls, so I think Barstow is maxed out. Kramer Jct. will be getting a Supercharger likely by 2021, once the construction on SR58 is completed. Both Victorville and Kramer Jct. will take some pressure off Yermo.

This does not mean that Yermo will not receive any sort of expansion. But I think with additional locations within fifty miles, expansion at Yermo is not on the table at this time. But, I've been wrong before.

To me, and I may have a different perspective than most, if I know that Yermo and/or Barstow could be a potentially congested site for Supercharging on my trip, I would make alternate arrangements. Perhaps stopping in Menifee for 10-15 minutes to add 30 or so miles of range or at San Bernardino/Fontana for 15-20 minutes and a bathroom break would enable reaching Baker without undue worry.

I think that we need to be more flexible in our routines, at least until DCFC is ubiquitous with enough stalls to accommodate everyone.

 

[crackers8199]

No these are not alternatives heading northbound. Coming from San Diego it is entirely possible you could not make Baker.

if you stop at rancho or fontana (or san bernardino or even potentially menifee if you're on the 215) you most certainly can make baker. that was my point.

just because you don't want to stop twice doesn't mean there aren't alternatives.

I think I explained my situation. Also note that sometimes it would not be possible to make it to Baker. I had a strong tailwind and would have made it to Baker with 11%.

you could have just as easily stopped and parked closer to the building, used the bathroom, and gotten back on the road to stop for a charge at baker. or stopped at another rest area along the way to use the bathroom, and then charged at baker.

this is one of the things i've gotten better at in the 18 months i've had my model 3...getting over the idea that you absolutely need to charge every time you stop. the first few months and first few road trips, we did the same thing - always making sure to stop where there's a charger and always making sure to plug in. i've since gotten better at managing a combination of bio breaks, SOC, and SC availability.

it's not a horrible thing to take a bio break without charging. if you absolutely need the charge, then yes...plug in. if you need to stop for bio reasons, but can make it to the next supercharger (and the one you're at is full)? you don't absolutely need to charge there at that time.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

if you stop at rancho or fontana (or san bernardino or even potentially menifee if you're on the 215) you most certainly can make baker. that was my point.

you could have just as easily stopped and parked closer to the building, used the bathroom, and gotten back on the road to stop for a charge at baker. or stopped at another rest area along the way to use the bathroom, and then charged at baker.

Anything is possible if you don’t care how long it takes!
I’m talking about optimal solutions for time. I was on 215. The earlier spots make no sense due to high SoC.
It’s important that an EV take no longer to get to a destination than a regular car! Or at least, it needs to be really close! There is no “settling” here - it needs to be just as fast.

And we WANTED to stop in EddieWorld because the food choices are much better. So it would have been crazy to stop and not charge. It ended up working out ok - only cost 10 minutes or so this time. But it’s not ideal. As I said, in many cases it would not be possible to make Baker without slowing down below 80mph or even slower.

On the way back yesterday I did stop in Baker to get a brief charge to enable me to get to Barstow if Yermo was a total cluster, and also because it was tight to Yermo due to lack of Vegas destination charging. Fortunately no wait at Yermo for me, but later there was a line. I got lucky it looked like.
I thought Christmas would be quiet but I suspect people were trying to beat the storm - it was really busy. Baker of course was quiet. Barstow was not as full.

To be clear about the capacity relative to max for those following along - this was NOT a maximum peak time. There are many situations where traffic on I-15 is far worse - I can only imagine the lines then. In general on I-15 traffic was smooth flowing and fast - Christmas Day and Sunday before Christmas are busy, but not peak travel times. Yet Yermo was very full.

 

[crackers8199]

The earlier spots make no sense due to high SoC.

this problem is easily solved by starting from home with a lower SoC, so that you're at a lower SoC when you get there. it's not that complicated if you plan it out...ABRP will even do the math for you.

It’s important that an EV take no longer to get to a destination than a regular car! Or at least, it needs to be really close! There is no “settling” here - it needs to be just as fast.

i don't disagree, but on a 5+ hour drive from san diego to vegas i don't think expecting to stop twice is unreasonable. menifee / san bernardino and baker / primm would have done you just fine and avoided yermo. yes, the amenities at baker suck, but it is what it is.

And we WANTED to stop in EddieWorld because the food choices are much better.

that's fair, but you can't then complain that everyone else wanted to do the same thing. everyone knows how many stalls there are and the screen tells you how busy the station is...you made the choice to stop there knowing how busy it was rather than planning ahead to avoid it.

So it would have been crazy to stop and not charge.

like i said earlier, this used to be my thinking as well...but in reality, it wouldn't have been. if there's too much of a line, and you can make it to baker, just go to baker. or, if you absolutely need to stop at yermo even though there's a line (for bathroom break or whatever), then just use the bathroom and get on your way and then stop at baker. this goes back to what i said earlier, thinking that "it would have been crazy to stop and not charge" isn't always true. i thought the same thing when i first got my model 3, but after 18 months of driving it i think i can safely say now that is not the case.

It’s important that an EV take no longer to get to a destination than a regular car! Or at least, it needs to be really close! There is no “settling” here - it needs to be just as fast.

i don't disagree with that at all, but it's also not fair to expect them to get there overnight.

yermo is always crowded during the day on a weekend...i don't think the fact it was near a holiday had anything to do with it. my wife and i went to vegas twice in the model 3 during the middle of summer and late summer, and it was packed both times. didn't have to wait, but almost every stall was full. that route is so devoid of services combined with so much traffic that you could conceivably have the same issue with gas stations along the way, if everyone wants to stop at the same place due to the other amenities.

the point is, additional capacity at yermo wouldn't hurt, but to say there are no alternatives other than yermo and barstow in a car that has 250+ miles of range just isn't accurate. at all.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

this problem is easily solved by starting from home with a lower SoC, so that you're at a lower SoC when you get there. it's not that complicated if you plan it out...ABRP will even do the math for you.

This just means a longer trip. I always start a trip at 100% since it means 1-2 minutes less time charging on the trip (minimum - it could save more time).

the point is, additional capacity at yermo wouldn't hurt, but to say there are no alternatives other than yermo and barstow in a car that has 250+ miles of range just isn't accurate. at all.

That was my point. Additional capacity at Yermo is needed. It’s a great and popular stop. Build it out. V3 FTW. Barstow would be ok to build out instead because that would be in range. Never stopped there (Barstow) before, but my vote would be for Yermo. Plenty of room in Yermo! It’s good to know that it is always crowded on the weekends. That’s valuable info for this thread.

I’ll repeat that Baker can easily not be in range from San Diego if conditions are adverse (headwind, cold). Even when starting from 100%.

In general, I agree on the need to be flexible given the current situation.

 

[crackers8199]

Barstow would be ok to build out instead because that would be in range.

i doubt they can do much more with barstow...it's kinda wedged in where it is. there's not a whole lot of room to expand the site as it exists like there is at yermo.

on a positive note (but a little OT), autopilot was made for that drive. the usual traffic doesn't bother me as much anymore because i can just let autopilot manage the traffic...

 

[ucmndd]

this problem is easily solved by starting from home with a lower SoC, so that you're at a lower SoC when you get there. it's not that complicated if you plan it out...ABRP will even do the math for you.

I always marvel when people say this, because I honestly can’t figure out how so many people believe it.

Starting on a road trip from home with a lower SoC will literally never save you time.

 

[crackers8199]

I always marvel when people say this, because I honestly can’t figure out how so many people believe it.

Starting on a road trip from home with a lower SoC will literally never save you time.

this is not necessarily true. i would almost never recommend this, but I brought it up because he brought up the idea of not supercharging because the battery was too full at the time he'd reach the closer supercharger.

example: the route we're talking about (SD to vegas). start with lower SoC, so that when you reach first supercharger you get the benefit of a faster charge to the point where you can skip the two superchargers in question that are heavily used.

ABRP times out the trip where you leave SD at 80% and stop twice (rancho cucamonga and baker) at 5:50, vs starting at 100% and stopping once (barstow) at 5:32. if the line at barstow is so long that it takes you more than 18 minutes to get into a stall, which on this route is entirely possible at peak times, you're better off starting out lower and stopping twice.

you're right, though, in that if you just start at 100% and stop twice you end up at 5:44. the main question isn't whether starting lower saves you time, it's whether stopping twice could potentially save time over stopping once.

 

[ucmndd]

the main question isn't whether starting lower saves you time, it's whether stopping twice could potentially save time over stopping once.

I’m well versed in the concept of multiple short charging stops often being quicker than one long one. I’ve employed this technique numerous times on trips all over the western US.

However, that doesn’t fundamentally change my point, and you’re comparing apples to pancakes.

All other things being equal, starting off a road trip that requires at least one charging stop with a higher SoC will ALWAYS save you required charging time.

Scenario 1: start from home at 100%. Arrive at first charger with 40% left. 70% required to reach next charger. Charge from 40 to 70%.

Scenario 2: start from home at 80%. Arrive at first charger with 20% left. 70% required to reach next charger. Charge from 20% to 70%.

So again, all other things being equal, It will certainly take longer to charge from 20% to 70% than 40% to 70%. Starting out on a road trip with a higher state of charge will ALWAYS save you some mandatory charging time and may provide you with more charging location options to avoid crowded sites like you mention above. It might not be much, and it might even be inconsequential if you’re planning on a longer stop somewhere anyway, but there is no possible way that starting out with a lower SoC can save you time.

 

[crackers8199]

However, that doesn’t fundamentally change my point, and you’re comparing apples to pancakes.

not at all. i conceded that you're correct in that starting at 100% will save time over starting at 80, even if you're making two stops. i only brought up the idea of starting at a lower SoC in response to the original post complaining that he couldn't charge earlier because his SoC would be too high.

again, the point being discussed here is that stopping twice could very well save you time over stopping once in this case. my invalid recommendation to start with a lower SoC (which again I concede isn't a good idea) doesn't change that.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Summary:
For travelers coming from San Diego:
1) Check Yermo Supercharger for clusterf*%k status before getting to Menifee.
2) If it’s f’ed, or even busy, consider stopping in Menifee at ~70% SoC to trickle charge a bit. Spend 10 minutes and get maybe 10%.
3) This will allow you to bomb it at 80+ mph to Yermo and Baker if necessary.
4) If Yermo is a long wait (you’ll see the line spilling onto the road or chaotically parked in the RV spots), then proceed to Baker and charge there, with very limited, but not nonexistent, food options.

Good luck. This will be a common strategy for I-15 travelers because of the way the Superchargers are sized and the available amenities at each one causing demand mismatched to the Supercharger deployment size.

Also currently (Dec 25th) one station is broken. The cord is tied up and the light is off.

 

[crackers8199]

2) If it’s f’ed, or even busy, consider stopping in Menifee at ~70% SoC to trickle charge a bit. Spend 10 minutes and get maybe 10%.

Rancho or Fontana on the 15 and SB on the 215 are also options in addition to Menifee. Elsinore and Corona too if on the 15...I wouldn't recommend Temecula though just because it's such a huge PITA to get in and out of unless the mall is closed.