Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

[smsprague]

For those who got the letter: if the shoe doesn't fit, then stop trying to jam it on your foot. Push the little trash can button and go pick something meaningful to be all offended about.

I find this attitude interesting. I agree that the letter is not the end of the world, but I would like clarification. I see no reason why Tesla should go out of it's way to insult a supporter like me. I hope they respond to my enquiry asking what they think I am doing wrong, especially since the nearest Supercharger to me is a 150 mile round trip. Plus I have only used it about 5 times in the last 12 months coming home from a trip.

 

[Owner]

I also don't see why it is so hard to write a official policy, and let all users know. If they want to backtrack from free-forever-whenever and specify it (only if you can't charge at home in your condo) and (long distance traveling and what is long distance), they need to professionally and courtesy do so.

It seems like they are hiding behind some (faulty) algorithm in an attempt to weasel out of direct communication. I think that's why this and the earlier post shareholders thread was so long.

I find this attitude interesting. I agree that the letter is not the end of the world, but I would like clarification. I see no reason why Tesla should go out of it's way to insult a supporter like me. I hope they respond to my enquiry asking what they think I am doing wrong, especially since the nearest Supercharger to me is a 150 mile round trip. Plus I have only used it about 5 times in the last 12 months coming home from a trip.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

There is no problem (unless you're someone bound and determined to make a problem). A fantastic post from roblab imploring people to be kind and considerate to others and a little less self-centered, and all those other things we're suppose to try and achieve in life to be better, and you see a problem. Rather than just take what he said at face value, you twisted his words and intent so you could have 'a problem' to chew on for infinity. Here's a set of thumbs up for your continued ability to add fuel to a fire that didn't need more.

For those who got the letter: if the shoe doesn't fit, then stop trying to jam it on your foot. Push the little trash can button and go pick something meaningful to be all offended about.

I have absolutely no problem with roblab's message, other than pointing out it is his opinion - not that of Tesla.

This thread is full of people implying to know what is Tesla's opinion and intent, roblab included. I'm pointing out they don't know, because Tesla isn't talking and their actions - the letter - is at odds with what little they have said. After the letter, you can't say Tesla is only after very specific major offenders. Their net may well be a lot wider than that. Now, I agree it also may NOT be wider, but the problem is we don't know yet.

A lot of what is here regarded as non-abusive use of the Superchargers is local conjecture, not from Tesla.

That's why asking Tesla to publish a policy on this, IMO, is useful. Is it just about targeting those few people who park at nearby Supercharger every night - or is Tesla after lessening the Supercharger use of a far larger populace?

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I also don't see why it is so hard to write a official policy, and let all users know. If they want to backtrack from free-forever-whenever and specify it (only if you can't charge at home in your condo) and (long distance traveling and what is long distance), they need to professionally and courtesy do so.

It seems like they are hiding behind some (faulty) algorithm in an attempt to weasel out of direct communication. I think that's why this and the earlier post shareholders thread was so long.

I agree Tesla could possibly prefer to avoid a clear policy change and thus would like to keep the message indirect and vague to an extent - and that irks a lot of us, as it seems that way. At worst, it could look like it could be about affecting policy change in such a manner, which would be worse.

So, here's hoping Tesla clarifies this soon and puts such thoughts out of our minds.

 

[Krugerrand]

I find this attitude interesting. I agree that the letter is not the end of the world, but I would like clarification. I see no reason why Tesla should go out of it's way to insult a supporter like me. I hope they respond to my enquiry asking what they think I am doing wrong, especially since the nearest Supercharger to me is a 150 mile round trip. Plus I have only used it about 5 times in the last 12 months coming home from a trip.

I find the attitude that Tesla went out of its way to insult you, a supporter, interesting.

I once received one of those 'Final Notices' in the mail from the electric company. I was like...!?!?!?....where's my 'friendly reminder notice'??? Then I was like....!?!?!?....I paid that bill early like I have done so for my entire life!!!!!! Then I was like....**#*#%)Q)!_$_#%)#%(%@, who do they think they are!?!?! That took up a full 15 seconds of my life.

I then came to my senses and dug out my check book and the bill to confirm I had indeed paid the bill. (Being human and getting older sucks and sometimes the mess up is my fault. Fortunately this time I didn't need to see that spousal smirk my husband lives for to do.) Then I signed onto my Internet banking to see if the check had been cashed and it had, but only the day before. It became clear to me that check had gotten temporarily lost between the mailbox and the person at the electric company that enters that information, and that in between the computer had been date triggered to automatically generate a Final Notice. Damn computers all to hell!

I then had the most delightful conversation with the electric company employee that had next to nothing to do with the Final Notice I'd received. But hey, next time maybe I'll seek out an electric company forum and look for some of that misery loves company stuff to keep myself riled up over nothing.

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...other than pointing out it is his opinion - not that of Tesla.

Actually, his post was more than opinion, it was a look at how some (I'd say a lot) of people behave. It can be applied to much more than SuperCharger use and was a much broader appeal to all of us. But I understand why you want to make it about something entirely different. That's what you do.

 

[smsprague]

I find the attitude that Tesla went out of its way to insult you, a supporter, interesting.

I once received one of those 'Final Notices' in the mail from the electric company. I was like...!?!?!?....where's my 'friendly reminder notice'??? Then I was like....!?!?!?....I paid that bill early like I have done so for my entire life!!!!!! Then I was like....**#*#%)Q)!_$_#%)#%(%@, who do they think they are!?!?! That took up a full 15 seconds of my life.

I then came to my senses and dug out my check book and the bill to confirm I had indeed paid the bill. (Being human and getting older sucks and sometimes the mess up is my fault. Fortunately this time I didn't need to see that spousal smirk my husband lives for to do.) Then I signed onto my Internet banking to see if the check had been cashed and it had, but only the day before. It became clear to me that check had gotten temporarily lost between the mailbox and the person at the electric company that enters that information, and that in between the computer had been date triggered to automatically generate a Final Notice. Damn computers all to hell!

I then had the most delightful conversation with the electric company employee that had next to nothing to do with the Final Notice I'd received. But hey, next time maybe I'll seek out an electric company forum and look for some of that misery loves company stuff to keep myself riled up over nothing.

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Interesting analogy. Not sure I see your point.

 

[Krugerrand]

Interesting analogy. Not sure I see your point.

Since you think Tesla went out of its way to insult a supporter such as yourself, I can understand my inability to convey my point to you.

 

[smsprague]

Sounds like we have a failure to communicate - no big deal. Let's move on.

 

[Krugerrand]

Sounds like we have a failure to communicate - no big deal. Let's move on.

We're communicating just fine, but as long as you are intent on thinking that Tesla went out of its way to insult you, I don't have the words to tell you they most surely did not intend that even a teeny, tiny, itty, bitty bit.

 

[cpa]

Kruger,

Your situation is one of a question of clearly defined fact: Either you paid your bill or you did not. You easily proved your payment by referring to your bank statement and discovered that there had been some snafu between the time you mailed off your payment and the time your payment was posted by the utility. Moreover, you have recourse in that you can always telephone the utility and speak to a real human being to get your situation clarified and resolved, whether you paid them or inadvertently forgot.

Not so with Tesla's email. There is no clearly defined fact. Tesla did not disclose to the recipients their charging habits or durations over whatever time period they deemed appropriate. Since it appears that only a fraction of owners received this email, Tesla could easily have added some wording at the conclusion of this email like, "If you think you have received this notification in error, or you are uncertain as to your Supercharger usage, please call Joe Doe at [this number] to leave a message with your name and Joe Doe will return your call within X hours with a full explanation."

At least give us some ability to understand our alleged transgressions and make an attempt to cure. (Which is what your utility company did by sending out a "final notice.")

 

[yobigd20]

Free to use is a major selling point. If they take that away it'll hurt sales and they NEED sales.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I find the attitude that Tesla went out of its way to insult you, a supporter, interesting.

I once received one of those 'Final Notices' in the mail from the electric company. I was like...!?!?!?....where's my 'friendly reminder notice'??? Then I was like....!?!?!?....I paid that bill early like I have done so for my entire life!!!!!! Then I was like....**#*#%)Q)!_$_#%)#%(%@, who do they think they are!?!?! That took up a full 15 seconds of my life.

I then came to my senses and dug out my check book and the bill to confirm I had indeed paid the bill. (Being human and getting older sucks and sometimes the mess up is my fault. Fortunately this time I didn't need to see that spousal smirk my husband lives for to do.) Then I signed onto my Internet banking to see if the check had been cashed and it had, but only the day before. It became clear to me that check had gotten temporarily lost between the mailbox and the person at the electric company that enters that information, and that in between the computer had been date triggered to automatically generate a Final Notice. Damn computers all to hell!

I then had the most delightful conversation with the electric company employee that had next to nothing to do with the Final Notice I'd received. But hey, next time maybe I'll seek out an electric company forum and look for some of that misery loves company stuff to keep myself riled up over nothing.

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Actually, his post was more than opinion, it was a look at how some (I'd say a lot) of people behave. It can be applied to much more than SuperCharger use and was a much broader appeal to all of us. But I understand why you want to make it about something entirely different. That's what you do.

Your analogy to electricity company, in itself, is perfectly reasonable. Like I said already in an earlier post, I find the letter - and reactions to the letter - fairly trivial in themselves. I wouldn't get worked up by them, nor do I think Tesla is set out to insult anyone. Some people, quite certainly, have gotten the email in error too.

Now, what I *do* have a concern with is what is Tesla's real goal of this Supercharger policy juggling. The letter adds to this concern. On the poll, currently, 68% of the letter recipients say they didn't deserve it - yet there has been no retraction by Tesla. As others have pointed out, these changes in how Tesla communicate their Supercharger policy are quite vague.

My concern is with understanding Tesla's real intent. Are they trying to curtail Supercharger use in general, perhaps lessen some percentage amount of electricity cost, which would support the idea of keeping the message and the pressure a little vague (and the net of people targeted far wider than expected at TMC), or are they merely looking at those nightly local Supercharger parkers and packed up full Supercharger issues and made a mistake targeting those.

With this kind of communication, it is very hard to tell what their full intent is. I think it would be in Tesla's interest to clarify and set a clear policy.

 

[smsprague]

Kruger,

Your situation is one of a question of clearly defined fact: Either you paid your bill or you did not. You easily proved your payment by referring to your bank statement and discovered that there had been some snafu between the time you mailed off your payment and the time your payment was posted by the utility. Moreover, you have recourse in that you can always telephone the utility and speak to a real human being to get your situation clarified and resolved, whether you paid them or inadvertently forgot.

Not so with Tesla's email. There is no clearly defined fact. Tesla did not disclose to the recipients their charging habits or durations over whatever time period they deemed appropriate. Since it appears that only a fraction of owners received this email, Tesla could easily have added some wording at the conclusion of this email like, "If you think you have received this notification in error, or you are uncertain as to your Supercharger usage, please call Joe Doe at [this number] to leave a message with your name and Joe Doe will return your call within X hours with a full explanation."

At least give us some ability to understand our alleged transgressions and make an attempt to cure. (Which is what your utility company did by sending out a "final notice.")

I sent Tesla ownership a polite email 3 days ago with my phone number. No response yet.

 

[RobinF]

My issue is that I have many young friends that have bought the tesla and are not homeowners. Condo boards have not been allowing the installation of charge stations. When I've taken my friends to tesla they explained the situation and people at the stores said it was fine. They wanted the sale. Now we have a problem.

Teslas letter should have pointed to a specific issue like cost or overcrowding. After spending the kind of money some of us have I think we deserve and can handle knowing the reason.

If overcrowding is an issue and tesla doesn't want to put multiple superchargers in a small area then they can mark certain superchargers and limit use reasonably at only those. It is ridiculous though to throttle at every supercharger if this is the issue.

If money is the issue I wouldn't mind if tesla just was honest and came up with the real price for supercharging as what we paid isn't enough. Every telecommunications company out there is tiering there services and tesla might have to do the same if its reasonable. Some believe that we are grandfathered in but if the price is reasonable I wouldn't mind.

Hope tesla handles this right. My condo friends now feel weird supercharging period even though we paid a fee for it.

I'm not sure it's the responsibility of Tesla to solve individuals' domicile charging issues. Tesla makes the HPWC (and other options) with the expectation that the new EV owner provision according to their needs. Potential customers should be smart enough to think ahead as to charging their new baby and not just see the SuperCharger network as their savior. Apartment dwellers have known that EVs are problematic for a long time and Tesla has not offered a solution. It DOES need to be addressed however if their Model 3 sales are to be healthy. This is when crunch time happens at the Superchargers and Tesla knows this. There has to be some acceptance on the part of condo boards and apartment managers that provisioning for Tesla charging is a good thing. Supercharger installations cannot be the answer.
Obviously the Supercharger network will never be built out into suburbia. Its express reason for existing is to enable long range travel on Tesla EV's to remove that reason for not buying one. It accomplished that goal and it doesn't really cost Tesla that much to do it. The (ham handed) email notices I think were a well intentioned (but incompetently executed) method of reminding people of that fact. Basically Tesla is saying 'if you have a choice between charging up at a supercharger or at home, choose your home.' That's it. To those whining that they don't have a charging option at home I have no sympathy. They should not have bought a Tesla. Should Tesla itself be that blunt? Maybe, but marketing departments are loath to tell potential customers that they should not buy a Tesla.

 

[Krugerrand]

Your analogy to electricity company, in itself, is perfectly reasonable. Like I said already in an earlier post, I find the letter - and reactions to the letter - fairly trivial in themselves. I wouldn't get worked up by them, nor do I think Tesla is set out to insult anyone. Some people, quite certainly, have gotten the email in error too.

It makes no sense to me that you think the reactions from the letter are 'fairly trivial' - we've got people here with their noses severely bent out of shape - and yet you're still on and on about how Tesla has changed their policy (they haven't), how they've been vague (they haven't) etc., etc... And no, please don't clarify for me any more. I'm all clarified out on the topic. Of course, feel free to clarify for others if you think they need it.

 

[scole04]

I'm not sure it's the responsibility of Tesla to solve individuals' domicile charging issues. Tesla makes the HPWC (and other options) with the expectation that the new EV owner provision according to their needs. Potential customers should be smart enough to think ahead as to charging their new baby and not just see the SuperCharger network as their savior. Apartment dwellers have known that EVs are problematic for a long time and Tesla has not offered a solution. It DOES need to be addressed however if their Model 3 sales are to be healthy. This is when crunch time happens at the Superchargers and Tesla knows this. There has to be some acceptance on the part of condo boards and apartment managers that provisioning for Tesla charging is a good thing. Supercharger installations cannot be the answer.
Obviously the Supercharger network will never be built out into suburbia. Its express reason for existing is to enable long range travel on Tesla EV's to remove that reason for not buying one. It accomplished that goal and it doesn't really cost Tesla that much to do it. The (ham handed) email notices I think were a well intentioned (but incompetently executed) method of reminding people of that fact. Basically Tesla is saying 'if you have a choice between charging up at a supercharger or at home, choose your home.' That's it. To those whining that they don't have a charging option at home I have no sympathy. They should not have bought a Tesla. Should Tesla itself be that blunt? Maybe, but marketing departments are loath to tell potential customers that they should not buy a Tesla.

So what is the lesser of the two evils. 100k car purchase or supercharger use. Tesla needs to pick one. Look at the big picture. Most superchargers outside of California have zero overcrowding issues. If money is the issue we can solve that. Tesla should just be up front. Tier the service. Road trip service (free) vs. Unlimited (a reasonable charge). If you only do road trips then keep doing what your doing.

 

[AZbba]

A clear policy statement from Tesla, with clear limits set, would do well to alleviate this uncertainty. Whether or not people need to be grandfathered in is another conversation, of course, but in any case going forward it would help with these feelings of uncertainty.

Tesla doesn't want clear limits set. If you say, no regular local supercharging, then they're going to alienate buyers who live in apartments/condos. If you say go for it, supercharge as much as you want, then you're going to have people charging every day, clogging the chargers. They will need to have a better plan for the model 3, but right now I think they are just looking at trends. The best scenario is that they scare the people who are using superchargers for daily charging, and don't scare off potential buyers at the same time.

In the next few years though, this is going to be an issue that apartments and condos are going to have to figure out.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla doesn't want clear limits set. If you say, no regular local supercharging, then they're going to alienate buyers who live in apartments/condos. If you say go for it, supercharge as much as you want, then you're going to have people charging every day, clogging the chargers. They will need to have a better plan for the model 3, but right now I think they are just looking at trends. The best scenario is that they scare the people who are using superchargers for daily charging, and don't scare off potential buyers at the same time.

In the next few years though, this is going to be an issue that apartments and condos are going to have to figure out.

That's a plausible, yet a seriously uncomfortable theory. I hope you're not right, but it has crossed my mind too.

 

[NigelM]

...on and on about how Tesla has changed their policy (they haven't), how they've been vague (they haven't) etc., etc...

That's the point. The policy is clear; Tesla wants (needs) owners not to abuse the system. We all know inherently whether we're being fair or not so why all the clamoring for clarification? Tesla trusts us and putting down strict rules on # miles from your house or # of times supercharging would just be an indicator of distrust. Some superchargers are, on occasion, becoming overcrowded and Tesla needs our help to alleviate that problem; yes, they could have used a better algorithm (I'll take the word of those people who say they shouldn't have received the letter) but some TMC'ers tried to come up with an alternative yesterday and it doesn't look as easy as folks would imagine.

BTW, kudos to the folks who declared on the poll that they maybe did deserve to receive the letter.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

To those whining that they don't have a charging option at home I have no sympathy. They should not have bought a Tesla. Should Tesla itself be that blunt? Maybe, but marketing departments are loath to tell potential customers that they should not buy a Tesla.

Wow, just wow.

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It makes no sense to me that you think the reactions from the letter are 'fairly trivial' - we've got people here with their noses severely bent out of shape - and yet you're still on and on about how Tesla has changed their policy (they haven't), how they've been vague (they haven't) etc., etc... And no, please don't clarify for me any more. I'm all clarified out on the topic. Of course, feel free to clarify for others if you think they need it.

By fairly trivial I didn't mean other people necessarily found it trivial. I meant I found it trivial, as in not really the pertinent point (the pertinent point not being offending customers but the question what is the Supercharging policy going forward). I certainly agree some were offended by the letter, but I don't think that's necessarily the important part. Insults are subjective and blow over, but policy can affect lasting implications.

 

[smsprague]

So for fun while watching the PGA Championship, I called Tesla support. I selected the call me back option. About an hour later I talked to a pleasant young man who was unaware of the letter going out to people who may have not deserved it. Anyway I gave him my Supercharging history and asked him to to create a ticket for the software guys who created the algorithm. It was interesting that he was completely unaware that the letter had go out to quite a few non abusers.