Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

[abasile]

I agree with the need for some certainty here.

Assuming we indeed buy a Model S or X as hoped for, I anticipate we'll regularly use a Supercharger that's about 40 miles away. Particularly as we live on a high mountain, we'll often need the extra charge when returning from various destinations. I'd have no problem paying to Supercharge, but whatever the rate is, it should be no more expensive than gasoline for, say, a 25 mpg car. Better would be if it's on par with gasoline for a 50 mpg Prius. Collecting more money for charging than for gasoline seems likely to dissuade many from considering EVs, especially since Supercharging is still not nearly as fast as pumping gas. Considering the true, high cost to Tesla of installing and maintaining Superchargers, though, I suspect that even with a reasonable fee schedule in place, Tesla will still have to subsidize the SC network.

 

[Oba]

Very well said. I am not a 1%er like most on here and don't have a garage. That being said, I planned on building a garage to be courteous when the Model 3 was purchased. Alot of the mass market audience Tesla has its hopes and success pinned on won't have access to home charging. Glad I sold my shares.

I'm absolutely stunned at the conclusions raised from this note. Tesla isn't going to stop you from driving 600km anywhere, nor did they suggest that in the letter. It's clear to me that there was some error in identifying the OP as a potential "local abuser", as that doesn't appear to be the case.

The message was pretty simple:

1) charge all you want
2) if you're sucking on the local Supercharger, please charge at home

Surely, there has to be a limit somewhere. There might be 10,000 or more Model S cars in SoCal today, and a grand total of 40-ish stalls to charge from. The math is real simple; not everybody can suck off the Tesla teet, free or otherwise (even if paid).

I don't have the answer for Model 3, except to say that I will be shocked if a $35,000 car also has free, unlimited, hog the local Supercharger access. But, certainly its a huge sales pitch.

My suggestions for Tesla:

1) BLOCKED STALLS - Free Supercharging is not the same as blocking a Supercharger. There needs to be a billing to any vehicle that is plugged in / parked in a Supercharger stall for XX minutes without actually charging. The first three times would get a friendly warning (that somebody will post the letter as the "end of the Tesla world" / sky is falling), with a potential fee if it keeps happening. $1 per minute with a ten minute grace period? At one hour, the car is eligible for towing. Put that in the letter.

2) NO HOME CHARGING OPTION - Tesla needs to decide if they are going to sell cars to folks without home charging. If so, then local Supercharger is going to happen… all the time. Half the population is in a situation that doesn't allow home charging. Model 3 owners may be disproportionately in flats / condos / apartments without home charging options. I'd recommend a charge for local use within XX miles of the home base (that would be where the car is habitually overnighted according to GPS data recorded by Tesla) and free elsewhere. Again, so that I don't get hate mail from everybody promised "free forever" without caveat, I don't suggest changing that.

3) COMMERCIAL VENTURES - (taxi, limo, town car, livery, corporate car) should not be on a free - forever plan. Yes, folks bought the cars with that promise, so I don't recommend going back in time. But, a simple amendment for future sales would offer the billing costs for commercial use. There is already a precedent for this, whereby a limo operator was charged $15k for a new motor… not a warranty repair.

4) CONTINUED EDUCATION - via letters, signs at the Superchargers, on the website, that while the Superchargers are 'free-forever", they are intended for:

a. travel outside XX miles from the habitual home base
b. folks without home charging… NEEDS TO BE SERIOUSLY ADDRESSED
c. not for parking your car while not charging

 

[AustinPowers]

Ya... I don't see how "Millions" of Tesla's are going to be able to Supercharge for "Free".

That just aint happening if people are getting letters about decreasing their Supercharging usage now... and there isn't even 100k Tesla's on the road.

But that would make one of the main attractions of buying a Tesla obsolete, wouldn't it? I mean the SC network and "free (super)charging for life" is the main advantage Tesla has over the competition. There are several attractiv BEVs available right now, but when it comes to ease of mind in terms of range anxiety, nothing beats the SC argument.

 

[Road_Runner]

I got the letter emailed today, but I haven't used "local" superchargers in over 3 months. I always charge at home anyways unless on long trips. It's insulting to tell me the benefits of charging at home AND accuse me of over-using the local superchargers! Makes me feel like a 5-year old and almost makes me want to rethink an X reservation if I will be treated like this.

 

[Jhall118]

I got the letter emailed today, but I haven't used "local" superchargers in over 3 months. I always charge at home anyways unless on long trips. It's insulting to tell me the benefits of charging at home AND accuse me of over-using the local superchargers! Makes me feel like a 5-year old and almost makes me want to rethink an X reservation if I will be treated like this.

If you are going to rethink buying a 100k+ premium SUV over a letter sent by a bot.... well... okay.

 

[Just a Reader]

That letter sounds like "we've sold you something that we didn't really think through and now we want to bluff you out of taking us up on our word".

Tesla's problems with "free supercharching for life" haven't even started yet. Just wait until used Model S get cheap enough to buy for the lads who like to ride around in big, elderly and pimped cars. Now you can buy a big car with supercar acceleration without the fuel costs that make such cars such an expensive hobby. It even comes with a drivetrain guarantee, eliminating another huge cost factor.
Be prepared for regular charging meetups of the local lads and their girls at your local supercharger.

 

[smilepak]

They tracking each ms via gps and each time you pull up and for how long, they know... Muahaha

 

[Newb]

I think Elon really needs to do something about it - either you keep it "free", expand it and increase the upfront price for supercharging (as part of the overall price of the car), or you don't keep it "free" and break with the past. But this "in-between" is a disaster. Make a decision, Mr. Musk!

I mean, if you put some limits (how would that work anyway?) on supercharging today: How will those limits ought to be changed in one year? In two years (when Model 3 is launched)? In three years? And what about people on business travels like Bjorn Nyland? Will he get a limit, too, because his use of "free" supercharging is deemed "abusive"? This is a recipe for constant PR disaster around supercharging!

If they want to limit supercharging, then simply let people pay per use.

Or double the price for it upfront - as a future Model 3 owner, I'd be willing to pay those $4,000 or something to have a real "free" supercharging experience.

 

[Patrick W]

Idle thought: has anyone been able to confirm -- with a real, live Tesla employee -- that Tesla actually sent this email?

There are some mischievous imps on this planet, after all, who enjoy stirring up... the pot.

FWIW the email came from [email protected] so I replied to that address asking for clarification. The immediate reply to my email came from [email protected] and read:

+++++
Thank you for contacting Tesla. This inbox is currently unattended. If you have a sales inquiry, please reach out to the relevant team:

North America Sales: [email protected]
EU Sales: [email protected]
China Sales: [email protected]
Hong Kong Sales: [email protected]
Japan Sales: [email protected]
Australia Sales: [email protected]

Thank you for your support,
Tesla
+++++

 

[AustinPowers]

Did anyone really expect millions of Tesla's on the road by 2020 being able to freely get access to a Supercharger on an unlimited basis at no cost?

If Elon said so, YES.

Realistically, NO.

Which leads me to conclude that Elon's statements might not always be highly realistic.
What, that is a revolutionary idea? Well then, I am glad I was the first to find out :wink:

 

[Matteo]

If Tesla switches to a payment system and they charge by time instead session, they would solve unnecessary parking problems too. Tesla can't charge for kWh anyway because selling electricity requires a license in lots of places. Bjorn talked about this in some videos. He said because the charge station operators don't have a license to sell electricity, they charge for time. I think that's a good idea. Ideally a fee structure should be like this:

1st hour = $3/hr = $0.05/min
2nd hour = $5/hr = $0.083/min
3rd hour = $10/hr = $0.166/min

This way a typical supercharge session would cost less than $3 because you don't need to supercharge longer than 1 hour. Of course the payment would be per minute. Occasionally some people might leave their car plugged in longer than an hour if they are in the middle of a dinner. But then they have to pay a higher rate after the first hour. That seems fair. Finally if somebody leaves their car longer than 2 hours, they would have to pay $10 for each hour. This can happen. Below is a story of somebody parking at a supercharger overnight. On top of this payment structure they should prohibit parking without pluging in. Tesla can't determine whether the car is at a supercharger unless it is plugged in. Therefore parking at a supercharger unplugged should eventually lead to termination. The story is from Tesla website.

mmcches553 | January 10, 2015
We ran into this problem twice in our trip from Minnesota to California. This was at SC located in the parking lot of motels. Pulled into first SC only to find all the spaces with MS connected. This was about 8:30 PM. Figured that we would sit in the car for awhile assuming one of the drivers would come out when charging was complete. By 9:30 PM not one car had moved. Went to the front desk but no one there knew how to contact the owners. I asked if when registering they put down their car license number. Response "some do some don't" I then asked if they have a policy about leaving the cars in the SC spots overnight.

Response, no. Did not have any options so being a stubborn A** I waited in the car overnight while my wife slept in the room. About 6 AM one man came out to his car with luggage. I confronted him politely but firmly asked why he left his car overnight blocking the space for others. He simply said he never though about it. He did move so that I could back in a get a charge. The second time was at a small motel. Pulled in about 7:AM with about 40 miles of range left. All 4 spots had MS plugged in. Walked into the motel and asked at front desk about having cars moved so that I can charge my car. Front desk said that these were put there for their guests. I replied no these are for Tesla owners, again these are superchargers not owned by the motel.

The young person then got on the phone and called the manager. The manager agreed that they indeed were for Tesla owners but felt that they should be able to park there overnight when staying in this motel. Finely someone came to their car and seeing my car parked behind them asked me to move so that they could get out. I asked him why he felt he could park there all night blocking the SC. He said never thought about it being a problem. The result is that people just don't think about others. We need to educate Tesla owners. Plug in charge and then move, simple as that.

[After people asked about the location]

mmcches553 | January 10, 2015

Lusk Wy, and Moab Ut. are both in motel parking lots and I am sure others are also. These are the two that I experienced overnight parking by Tesla MS. I can understand ICE owners not knowing better but MS should realize the need of other owners who might want to use the SC when they are sleeping.

 

[TaoJones]

At no time do I recall any statement attributed to Elon or anyone else at Tesla that could be even remotely construed as support for unlimited supercharging for Model 3s *by default*.

There is a huge difference between a niche luxury car and a mass market car. Given that the vast majority of the former don't even use SCs, don't expect the most popular version of the Model 3 to be SC-enabled by default. Mass market means a lot of things, and one of those things is price sensitivity. Apologies to anyone under 60 or so, but the elder statespeople en residence will recall the advent of the Mustang. Upon debut, it didn't even come with a radio. It was intended to be a fun family car for, wait for it, the masses.

Neverminding for the moment that in a scant 10 years thereafter, Ford foisted upon us that bastion of design-by-committee, the Mustang II, the whole point of the Mustang at first was to get into the hands of as many people as possible. Same same with the Model 3 - and for that reason, I doubt the best selling version will even have SC access. However, as a $5000 option for unlimited, or a $2000 option for $0.10/kW use, it is also reasonable to presume that those who want to pay up front and as they go will be able to have SC access.

After all, there won't be *that* many Model S/X on the road in 3 years. But a good solid year of Model 3 production, well, that's a different cauldron of tilapia right there.

Meanwhile, don't screw the first 100,000 VINs and in particular don't renege upon promises already made and relied upon to constituencies such as the non-garaged.

If Tesla announced next week that effective with VIN 100,001, cars left in a (SC) stall 5 minutes past their completed charge would be fined $100, who could blame them. ICEing (by EVs, no less) is a far bigger threat to the community than the non-garaged S/X owner will ever be.

Livery is also a problem but not a show-stopper if metered. ICEing just hurts everyone and it's a completely avoidable problem. Putting SCs not at busy malls would be wise, too, but one thing at a time.

Agreed wholeheartedly about the need for continuous education - starting with our own owner community. What a great idea for a newsletter. How could they possibly screw that up...

 

[Bet TSLA]

None of these charging scenarios are reasonable or necessary. Teslas will soon self-park. A major feature of this will be that they will be able to move themselves in and out of the supercharger slots. All that will be required is a person to plug and unplug them. Even that will become unnecessary with the advent of Elon's metal snake.

Sanctions for staying too long at a charger won't be necessary because you'll just be moved elsewhere. If you don't want to be moved, don't leave your car too long.

 

[m6bigdog]

The more time I spend on here the more unsure I am about buying a Model 3. It was my dream, but comments like this, drive trains exploding frequently according to previous posts on TMC, production delays and unwarranted emails being sent to people who don't even use Superchargers is turning me against this company. I travel very long distances for work purposes (Medicine Hat and back a couple times a week - 600km in a day) and if somebody on here or the wing walker Musk is going to tell me I can't supercharge then all the best - I will be buying an ICE. So I will be monitoring things. If there isn't a plan in the next year, my sale goes elsewhere. I don't need the hassle or to be made to feel like a criminal.

IMHO,
The community of Tesla owners will want to be reasonably responsible for the cost of daily charging or the weight of those that want to freeload will collapse the entire Supercharger Network; as it cannot handle the Supercharger volume and/or the cost of electricity. Yea, I know every Tesla sold is Supercharger enabled. The question is, what does Supercharger enabled give you rights to?
I anticipate if business, outdoor salesmen, Taxis' and for-profit users start lining up at the Superchargers and tagging their daily "Cost of Doing Business" onto the Supercharger network it will be doomed in short order with the anticipated future sales volume.

The cost of commuting to work is also part of the wage compensation and cannot be offloaded to the MS ownership and/or Supercharger network for no additional cost.
Just like Supercharging cannot be used wholesale to supplement business/commercial use of a MS.

Tesla Motors cannot and will not survive if its profits are syphoned off to subsidize other businesses by way of a "free for all" Supercharger network.

Every Tesla is tracked, every event is logged and recorded daily.
Every charging event (date/time/kWh and the location) is recorded so every Supercharge event for each and every MS is logged by Tesla.
Tesla has the records of Supercharger use and knows who is being naughty and nice.
Tesla logs and knows where and how many kWh are charged every time at any location!!

The Supercharger network is an enabler, for long distance personal use and provides an opportunity to drive a MS beyond the battery range for personal use, as a benefit of personal ownership; not for business or commercial use.
Personally, my home charging does not cost me anything because I installed solar and it is convenient to also not have to pay for Supercharging during personal trips, however if there was some nominal $.10-.12 kWh charge it would be worth it just for the speed and convenience of the Supercharger network.

If all this gets your goat, then maybe Tesla Motors and the MS is not the best choice.

 

[Oba]

If all this gets your goat, then maybe Tesla Motors and the MS is not the best choice.

You covered everything except the 50% of the population that doesn't have access to at-home charging. What should they do, with reference to a Supercharger?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I haven't gotten one, however I was concerned that I might, as I have had a few runs in my 60 where it would be close to 10 or so miles left by the time I got home, so I would stop on my way back (say 30 miles from home) to top off so I would have miles left for errands and running the kids wherever... On 2 occasions, our plans changed and I wound up not needing the charge, I felt bad, but genuinely didn't have the knowledge that I wouldn't need the range. What's more, I charged up only enough to get home and still have 60 miles or so left for wherever I had to run. I know that by me, on Long Island, the Syosset SC is very highly utilized and that there are some owners who I have been told do not have chargers at home. They SC every morning or night. Now THAT would seem highly abusive to me. I know I had to wait 25 minutes one time I desperately needed a charge to get home.

And now we have a new form of range anxiety: Anxiety that Tesla is watching.

 

[deonb]

You covered everything except the 50% of the population that doesn't have access to at-home charging. What should they do, with reference to a Supercharger?

I think the bigdog is implying Tesla need to close the city Superchargers, buy back all of the Model S's they sold in London & Hong Kong, and give them to people in Iowa instead.

 

[jerry33]

None of these charging scenarios are reasonable or necessary. Teslas will soon self-park. A major feature of this will be that they will be able to move themselves in and out of the supercharger slots.

There are two problems with this: 1) What happens when the parking lot is full? (does it drive around for 45 minutes while you are away) 2) How will the car know not to park next to either a poorly parked car (so that that door of the other car is so close that it can't open without touching), a beater (where the person is unlikely to be even remotely careful), or downhill of a loose shopping cart.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I got The letter and I am hopping mad about it. First of all there is no soap supercharger Close to my house, the nearest one is about 30 miles away. Secondly and more to the point we don't need to be condescended to about home charging. I'm fully aware how home charging works as 3 OUT OF THE 4 of these I own get charged at home.

Treating tesla owners like they're stupid is unbelievably short sighted. If you don't want people, even locals, using the Chargers then TELL THEM THE RULES AT THE POINT OF SALE. Don't play word games and be suprised when people see what they want to. I wonder if this is why Jerome left, I don't see him sending out this kind of letter.

Bingo.

- - - Updated - - -

I think we have a few possible scenarios concerning this email:
1. It was accidentally sent to everyone instead of a select number of individuals.
2. It was intentionally sent to everyone but accidentally included the phrase that should've only be sent to a select number of individuals.
3. It was intentionally sent to everyone but the choice of wording wasn't the best.

It is possible that Tesla's definition of "local" is very different from our perception of local. Some might think it means "same town or metro area" or "within 10 miles". Perhaps Tesla considers "local" to be within 100 miles. From everyone who has posted so far, it sounds like they have all actually used the Supercharger network (even though the charger might've been 50+ miles from their home address). Do we have reports of anyone receiving the email who has never Supercharged or who has only Supercharged more than 100 or 200 miles from home? Knowing this would help determine if it was an email accidentally sent to every owner. It would also be helpful to know if any non-Supercharger enabled owners received the email.

I'm thinking the email could've been intended for all owners but the sentence about frequent charging at local Superchargers should've been limited to the select group of individuals that it really applies to.

Obviously a mistake was made somewhere. Before doing mass mailings, I always run the code against a copy of the production database and confirm it sends the intended number of emails. If I saw it sending 50,000+ emails instead of 50+ emails, I would've fixed the code. If I expected 50,000+ emails to be sent, I would've confirmed via a random sample that only ones that should contain the conditional text actually contained the conditional text.

When we originally discussed this - at length - it was widely assumed or at least theorized Tesla would send reminders only to really active users like daily users a few miles from home.

It seems their aim is quite a bit less accurate than that. Maybe that is intentional. Maybe they really want us to use the Superchargers quite a bit less - and not just shut out very active chargers?

 

[TaoJones]

You covered everything except the 50% of the population that doesn't have access to at-home charging. What should they do, with reference to a Supercharger?

Indeed. That's the trouble with myopia. Tends to miss the forest for the trees.

Fortunately, when asked directly about the non-garaged relying upon superchargers, Tesla's answer was a resounding "welcome to the family". In fact, soon thereafter, Tesla also made good upon the commitment to DENSITY as well as DISTANCE. Funny thing about density - there are 3 SCs within 10 miles of each other in LA County, yet the OC has more owners and a whopping 1 poorly-located SC.

Could it be that there are considerably more non-garaged owners in LA County than Orange County? Only Tesla knows for sure.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of owners still do not use SCs, and the vast majority of owners, the non-garaged included, do not use SCs on a daily basis. There is no crowding problem in SoCal (the exception does not make the rule). The weak links are livery/commercial and ICEing.

However, if Tesla sent out a monthly or quarterly newsletter reminding all owners of best practices (vacating immediately upon charging completion , educating to reduce other forms of ICEing, avoiding pairing when possible, encouraging owners to recommend new SC locations, absolutely not littering, and the list goes on), then that would be time well spent - especially as the demographics/characteristics of the community change.

Just please run a draft of each newsletter past 2-3 beta testers until communications improve (preferably a multi-lingual, multicultural set of beta testers) first - I'm sure they'd be happy to do a fast sanity check/turnaround, they're bound by NDA, and they'd do it for free. Three questions could do for starters: is it clear, is it offensive, and is it compelling...

The community is here to help - use it.