Supercharging Price - What if it is $2500?

[ModelNforNerd]

"package" usually implies a bundle of some sort.

Until I hear otherwise, I'm just going to assume the "package" includes the bigger battery. So honestly, nothing would change from the current model.

You pay for the "package" of the battery and Supercharging up front, for the life of the car.

Sometimes, I've noticed we like to come on here and make things more complex than they need to be.

 

[dsvick]

Until I hear otherwise, I'm just going to assume the "package" includes the bigger battery.

Hopefully, if it's a package it will be something along the lines of a 75D version, that includes SC for life. If it's in the $8,000 range I'd probably bite.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Hopefully, if it's a package it will be something along the lines of a 75D version, that includes SC for life. If it's in the $8,000 range I'd probably bite.

With the per kWH manufacturing cost of the batteries coming down, and Elon already being on Twitter saying the AWD will be "less than $5,000" it's maybe not too insane to think the bump up from "base battery w/RWD and no Supercharging" to "xxD w/Supercharging" would run in the ~$7,500 range.

I'm partially basing that on Elon's expectation that the "average transaction price" for the Model 3 will be ~$42,500

 

[hingisfan]

Maybe they should have just said...."Sorry guys, we came in a bit above the 35k, it's 37.5k but that includes lifetime supercharging!"

 

[ucmndd]

Maybe they should have just said...."Sorry guys, we came in a bit above the 35k, it's 37.5k but that includes lifetime supercharging!"

What possible upside is there for Telsa in that scenario? Or the consumer for that matter?

Tesla gets raked over the coals by the media for over-promising and under-delivering, missing their target.

Consumers lose a choice. Why not keep the base price of the car low and allow people who WANT specific options to pay for them?

 

[ucmndd]

Once again, processing multiple financial transactions per car over the course of years will cost more than processing a single one at the time of purchase.

While true, this is an essentially meaningless metric. If a "multiple transaction" model incentivizes more people into using the SC network and paying for the privilege than would have otherwise, increased card processing fees are clearly beneficial to the business as a whole.

I don't know why people think it's going to be so ungodly complicated and cumbersome for a company like Tesla to set up a merchant/billing system. This is one of the most, if not THE most, commoditized aspects of running a business. It's a long-solved problem.

 

[Red Sage]

If a "multiple transaction" model incentivizes more people into using the SC network and paying for the privilege than would have otherwise, increased card processing fees are clearly beneficial to the business as a whole.

~*If*~. It won't 'incentivize' anything at all. 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)!' is an excellent, proven motivator -- because it strikes a clear and meaningful difference between methods of doing business.

What I don't understand is how so many don't realize it isn't about credit card processing fees. It is about dealing with the ridiculous customer service dispute issues that will undoubtedly arise as a result. There are a lot of people who have never done well with either reading or comprehension but will never admit that fact either publicly or privately. Those people love to blame other people for the issues that arise out of their own refusal to learn information that is put before them, but gladly sign on the dotted line anyway. They are the people who are used to being the wheel that squeaks loudest and getting greased as a result. And they are an absolute nightmare to deal with in every business under the sun, no matter how accommodating of their needs you may attempt to be. That is the expense that Tesla Motors would incur and endure with pay-at-the-pump, pay-per-use, credit-card-on-file, deferred payment, and subscription based poo-poo services attached to Supercharging. And that doesn't even count all the regulatory issues and legal injunctions that would come along when someone accused Tesla Motors of being a re-seller of electricity, and effectively a utility company.

Tesla Motors is the constant target of critics who are perfectly willing to set snares, or outright lie about their business practices. There are those who are desperately waiting for Tesla Motors to do something that they can attack as being 'bad' somehow. Those people will do anything at all to make it seem as though Tesla Motors is 'breaking a promise' or whatever. Best to avoid those situations with deft evasion techniques and move on with something that works instead.

"Best block: No be there." -- Mr. Miyagi

 

[ummgood]

My take on this is if they charge me $2500 just for DC fast charging or supercharging or both then I'll probably cancel. We have two cars and 3 kids. When we go on longer trips we take the minivan almost always. The only time I have needed to take my ICE car longer than 200 miles is when my wife and I manage to get someone to watch the kids for a week and we go on a couples trip. This has happened 2 times since I have moved to Texas in 2005. Both times we needed to get to Galveston or Dallas, etc... We can't take the van because the people watching the kids usually use the van.

Given that I really only need supercharging every other year or so it makes no since financially for me to pay $2500 up front to get the capability but at the same time I need some way to use it if I need it. Now if that is PPU or some other method for charging like a one month pass or something I would be ok with that. I flat out can't buy this car if I know it is stuck to a 70 mile radius of my city.

Now if they fold the supercharging into a package with other things like a bigger battery or other things then I probably won't have an issue with it but I won't buy the car without some supercharging capability AND I am not willing to pay $2500 for supercharging alone. I do plan on buying the larger battery so if it comes with that I'll be fine. Some might say they are going to bake the price into the battery and I guess I'll blindly pay it in that case but I have trouble paying for it as a $2500 stand alone option.

 

[MP3Mike]

My take on this is if they charge me $2500 just for DC fast charging or supercharging or both then I'll probably cancel.

Even when they were charging for Supercharging on the originally S60 it only cost $2,000 at the time of purchase. (The $2,500 was for after purchase which includes the $500 change penalty fee that Tesla tacks on to everything.)

DC fast charging hardware, i.e. CHAdeMO support, for the original S60 is currently $1,900, which we can probably safely assume include the $500 penalty, so it actually costs $1,400. Put that together and Supercharging only costs $600.

My guess is that the DC fast charging hardware will be enabled on every Model 3, as they have probably brought the cost of it way down from what it was, especially with it being designed from the start to be in every car where on the Model S it was originally going to be optional. (Though you will still need the $450 CHAdeMO adapter to use it. And there may be a CCS adapter as well.) And I think that the 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)' Supercharging access will cost $600. (Or maybe they will lower it to a nice even $500.)

Chances of the 'FREE (of additional fees) for LIFE (the life of the car)' Supercharging be included in the larger battery? 99.9999999%

 

[S'toon]

Maybe they should have just said...."Sorry guys, we came in a bit above the 35k, it's 37.5k but that includes lifetime supercharging!"

And once again my reply would be "Why should I pay more for supercharging than the S owners?"

 

[lolder]

Because the car's less than half the price. The supercharger use was factored into the price of the S at about $500. So far S owners have been using superchargers enough so that the amount should have been $1000. They need to limit free supercharger use for all S's to more than 50 miles away from residence and charge a nominal $10 fee per use for 3's.

 

[TaoJones]

The base model will be able to charge via ChaDeMo presuming you have a ChaDeMo adapter as is the case today.

Got a minivan or SUV for the long trips as many families do? Great. Don't pay for supercharging and have that ChaDeMo handy just in case around town even though you'll rarely need it. The majority of owners today have garages and don't use SCs. Same will be the case for M3 owners - although perhaps less so (so 30% instead of 10% who use SCs at all).

Big deal - 500,000 * 50% US * 30% = 83K by the end of 2018 at the very earliest and the SC network will double by the end of 2017 and grow from there. There is not nor will there be a systemic capacity problem.

But do realize that poo-poo schemes are simply unrealistic for distance travel. You'll visit SCs almost 20 times just driving from Los Angeles to Portand and back and sightseeing for a few days while there.

Poo-poo schemes are also wholly unnecessary for density, to which Tesla has committed for years now. The network is less than 50% complete and 97% underutilized.

And yet to save $2500 up front, the pied pipers of poo poo want to promulgate pestilence in the form of introducing friction into the one frictionless fast charging network on the planet. Not productive.

Especially when AeroVironment leads the way for ChaDeMo by offering 30-day unlimited use of their full-strength, fully-functional ChaDeMo for $19.95. That's as close to free as it gets and is a lot cheaper than what any subscription model from Tesla will cost.

Have a little faith in Tesla to manage capacity and demand. Poo-poo is a solution for a problem that does not systemically exist.

For every 1 SJC, there are 50 SCs that are veritable wastelands. Even SJC and FV are often empty, but there's no handwringing in that. Darn those 2/3 of American homes that have garages and the majority of families that don't travel outside a 100-mile radius.

It would be much more productive to focus upon the present problem which is that of ICEing by our own. As seen in Reno recently, and at FV as well, there is no better way to adversely affect capacity than to not leave when the charge is complete. Not 5 minutes later but when it is done. Which means getting back to your chariot a few minutes early. I would like to see more nagging from the app along with public shaming of the worst offenders. Along with some mechanism for the car to emit unpleasant noises (think campfire scene from Blazing Saddles).

This doesn't have to be hard and there's no reason why a solution for an *actual* challenge can't be fun. And we certainly do not need to create problems with faux solutions such as poo-poo.

 

[MP3Mike]

And once again my reply would be "Why should I pay more for supercharging than the S owners?"

How do you know how much the S owners are paying. The cost is 100% hidden in the MSRP. For all we know it could be $5,000.

 

[MP3Mike]

The base model will be able to charge via ChaDeMo presuming you have a ChaDeMo adapter as is the case today.

Are you 100% positive of that? Has Tesla said that? The original S60 either had to pay for Supercharging or to enable the DCFC hardware to use CHAdeMO. There are still S40s and S60s running around that can't use CHAdeMO even though the hardware is in the car...

I assume that the DCFC hardware will be installed, and unlocked, on all Model 3s, but I haven't seen Tesla actually say that. (Well we know the hardware will be installed but it might not be enabled.)

 

[S'toon]

How do you know how much the S owners are paying. The cost is 100% hidden in the MSRP. For all we know it could be $5,000.

One...more...time. The only Model S which charged for supercharging was the original S60. The charge was $2000 if it was ordered at the same time as the order of the car. The price of $2500 was if it was enabled after delivery.

That $2000 was included in the price in the higher battery option cars.

 

[kzod]

You guys are hillarious. In other threads people talk about how they will happily load the car up with most options, for some speculating that they may pay up to $70k for a fully loaded model 3. You will gladly pay thousands extra for certain paint choices that you never get to see when driving the car. But everyone gets hung up on supercharging costs. I don't know how much it will cost or even if it's free. Personally like many others have stated I can't imagine using the SC network more than a few times a year (if that). I would never use even $1,000 worth of electricity / fuel costs unless I keep the car going for decades. Pay per use would be my preferred choice. But, if it was only available as a $2,000 option I wouldn't hesitate to take it. That has much more value to me than spending an extra $20,000 just to get an extra 60 miles of range and ludicrous speed! The cash you spend on Supercharging access isn't about electricity costs. It's about adding the option to go on long distance trips without undue misery (at least in a perfect world). It's the main reason most of us will patiently to get the Tesla but wouldn't even think twice about getting a BMW i3 or Bolt that's available no (Even if they were nice looking cars).
The bigger concerns isn't what it will cost us, but can they run an efficient charging network that will have reasonable access to a charger when we need it. 30 Minutes to charge my car is reasonable, waiting hours to get a charger wouldn't be.

 

[TaoJones]

Are you 100% positive of that? Has Tesla said that? The original S60 either had to pay for Supercharging or to enable the DCFC hardware to use CHAdeMO. There are still S40s and S60s running around that can't use CHAdeMO even though the hardware is in the car...

I assume that the DCFC hardware will be installed, and unlocked, on all Model 3s, but I haven't seen Tesla actually say that. (Well we know the hardware will be installed but it might not be enabled.)

I am 100% sure that shipping base Model 3s enabled to use ChaDeMo and not enabled to use SCs is an absolute no-brainer to reduce demand for SCs.

I doubt that a (phone) call to ownership will have to be made to enable ChaDeMo usage. Using SCs requires validation that is unrelated, in other words.

Besides which, the $491 cost of a delivered ChaDeMo adapter is enough of an investment.

 

[dsvick]

My take on this is if they charge me $2500 just for DC fast charging or supercharging or both then I'll probably cancel. ...

Given that I really only need supercharging every other year or so it makes no since financially for me to pay $2500 up front to get the capability...

I do plan on buying the larger battery so if it comes with that I'll be fine.

I disagree, and I agree

I would only need SC access once or twice a year, other than that though it will be a perfect day to day car for me, so not being able to use it 4 or 5 days a year is not a valid reason for me to cancel. By the same token though, 4 or 5 uses a year isn't enough for me to pay $2000 or more to enable SC, but I won't cancel, I just won't activate SC. Especially since destination charging will, no doubt, be expanding all the time. It might take a bit more careful planning but I'll bet I can figure a way to make it work without SC.

Like you said though, if it's part of a package like larger battery or dual motor, I'll pay the baked in price for it.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I would only need SC access once or twice a year


Like you said though, if it's part of a package like larger battery or dual motor, I'll pay the baked in price for it.

To the 1st part I've cherry-picked....
I thought the same thing. But then I've realized that it would probably be more. Most of my family is within 1/2 a battery, out-and-back, so not as big a deal. Some of the wife's extended family is close to 150-ish miles out, meaning I'd probably need some juice on the way back (and luckily they're all near existing SC's), so I'd NEED it probably closer to 10 times/year. Then the semi-annual MA-to-VA-and back trips. That's 4-6 SC stops round trip, depending on conditions. Suddenly I'm up in the 14-16 SC's per year range. Then you factor in the "just cuz" trips you might not do in an ICE. Wanna go "leaf peeping" in the fall? Jump in and go. Want to just drive aimlessly on backroads for a few hours? jump in and go. Now I'm probably at 20 SC's/year

So for the sake of argument...I'll use my wife's car as the example: 2014 Impreza wagon, CVT, 14.5 gallon tank, gets 36mpg HWY, takes ~$31 to fill these days (can run off 87 octane).

20 full tanks of gas comes to ~ $620. So IF....IF...Supercharging came to $2500, I'd regain the value of that in around 4 years of driving.

But there are some other variables, such as my car....if we were to use my car... 2015 A3, 14.5gal tank. 33 mpg HWY, needs at least 91 Octane, now the savings of using the Supercharging network instead of the Audi becomes $750/yr, and I'd recoup the price of SC in just over 3 years.

And that's not even factoring in-town EV vs. gas use, daily commute, errands, etc. I've only done a napkin-math case study for long distance.

And to your second part....about it being baked in as part of Dual motor or bigger battery, all that much more cost-effective, depending on what vehicle you're coming from. Seeing as your tag says you're from NE Ohio, you're likely looking at Dual motor anyway, as am I. So if they "give" me Supercharging as part of something I've already labeled as "must-have", then it carries even more value to me, psychologically AND financially.


But while we're here waiting for crumbs from Elon, and overthinking this, it's likely already decided what they're going to do...and if it's not, they're waiting to see how partnering with gas stations and restaurants like Ruby Tuesday works out. If they're meeting or exceeding their rollout plans, then we likely won't see any difference in how we "pay" for Supercharging than S or X owners went through.

 

[vinnie97]

You guys are hillarious. In other threads people talk about how they will happily load the car up with most options, for some speculating that they may pay up to $70k for a fully loaded model 3. You will gladly pay thousands extra for certain paint choices that you never get to see when driving the car. But everyone gets hung up on supercharging costs.

That seems like a bit of a broad brush. I'm sensitive to the pricing of all options.