Um, what? Tesla's without Sub-Zero package don't have defrost vents? I don't own a Tesla yet, and have only driven an S 1x. But I have a hard time believing they don't have defroster vents for the front windshield. That would mean I'd have a difficult time driving my Model 3 here in North Carolina many days, and it doesn't even get THAT cold here compared to the climates of other posters here - maybe down to mid 20's F.
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Um, what? Tesla's without Sub-Zero package don't have defrost vents? I don't own a Tesla yet, and have only driven an S 1x. But I have a hard time believing they don't have defroster vents for the front windshield. That would mean I'd have a difficult time driving my Model 3 here in North Carolina many days, and it doesn't even get THAT cold here compared to the climates of other posters here - maybe down to mid 20's F.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
They have defrost vents...
in this pic it's a solid mesh.
Windshield Mesh Grill - Defrost Vents - Changed Again
Also I should note that it's a regulation:
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations
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Because the the base price is nearly double that of the Model 3. And I would hope that like the S, upgrading the battery to maximum range would make it unnecessary to add any supercharging upcharge.Close but ... the correct answer will be $2K for for Model 3 lifetime supercharging
Why would Tesla charge less than the current fee for legacy Model S 60kW owners?
Oh, OK. So what's the cost to own and operate a Tesla excluding possible supercharger cost?
ALL S batteries include supercharging now. There is no upcharge.
Ahhh, there is a good question. We don't know the answer for the 3, but the S requires a brake fluid replacement every 2 years/25k miles and a battery fluid replacement every 4 years/50k miles. Plus the usual tire rotations, cabin air filters, etc.
Right now Tesla charges $400 for the minor service (the cabin air, inspections, tire rotation), $700 for the brake fluid service interval and $900 for the battery coolant interval service.
Shawn Snider
Member
Guess that was just on the first couple years the S was out, they didnt have sufficient defrost vents and it reeked havoc in winter! Good to see they fixed that *sugar*! I'll still be getting the SZ package, Canada gets a LOT colder than 'Murrica!
For me the only way supercharging works is if it's "pay per use". I will do 99.9% of my charging at home and only seek out a supercharger on a road trip which will be at most twice a year for a few days. Let's say I use superchargers a total of 6 times a year. I can't see spending substantial money on something so infrequently used.
diamond.g
Active Member
Yeah in your case you are probably better off getting the chademo adapter (or borrowing one from a TMC member), assuming that Tesla doesn't lock DC charging behind the Supercharging access fee (they did on the 60 so there isthat).
They didn't lock CHAdeMO capability behind Supercharger access, but they did lock it behind enabling the DC fast charging hardware. (Which is $600 cheaper than Supercharger access if I recall correctly.)
diamond.g
Active Member
True. It appeared super expensive on the site cause they bundled in the adapter as well.
I don't think the adapter is bundled. It is $450 for the adapter + $1,900 for enabling the DC fast charging hardware for the original S60s that don't have Supercharging enabled. (You may not need the adapter if you got one elsewhere or only using a CHAdeMO station that has one available for you to borrow.)
I remember somebody complaining about it because the Valet at his office couldn't get his S60 to charge on the CHAdeMO that was available. (They had an adapter for the station.) And it would have cost him $1,900 just to enable the DC fast charging hardware.
MassModel3
Member
diamond.g
Active Member
Okay that is weird, I swear the site showed the adapter + the activation for 1900. Otherwise you are just better off paying the additional 200 bucks and get SuperCharging turned on.
Unless you aren't near a Supercharger and need the CHAdeMO adapter and capability. Like if you wanted to travel the Oregon coast until just recently. (Since Tesla just started putting Superchargers on the coast, but there have been CHAdeMO chargers for a long time.)
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Why? A couple of reasons. Please note that the original Reservation Fee for Model S was $5,000. By February 2014 it had gone down to $2,500. And then, when the Model ☰ was revealed, its Reservation Fee was $1,000 -- 1/5th the original amount.Close but ... the correct answer will be $2K for for Model 3 lifetime supercharging
Why would Tesla charge less than the current fee for legacy Model S 60kW owners?
A different market, with a different manufacturing rate, designed with the purpose of being 'affordable'...? Will require a different fee structure. Proportionately speaking, a fee to activate Supercharging on the base version of the Model ☰ may well be as little as $500 to activate 'FREE for LIFE!' access.
$2,000 or maybe even $1,000 might be a reasonable amount from the perspective of some... But making the activation fee for a 'free' service twice as high or equal to the Reservation Fee seems a bit punitive. At $500, or included with higher trim levels by default, it just becomes another option package.
Think of it this way... For a $69,900 vehicle, a $2,000 activation fee represents less than 1/35th the cost of the car -- about 2.9%. And sure, a $1,000 activation fee would be equivalent to 1/35th the cost of a $35,000 Model ☰. But if you presume there was a 25% profit margin on the $69,900 car, then $2,000 is about 11.44% of that profit margin. And, if you presume there is a 12% profit margin on a $35,000 car, then 11.44% of the $4,200 profit margin is ~$480 or so. And, really, it is pretty fair to round that up to a nice, even, $500 as an activation fee. Which, coincidentally, happens to be 1/5th the amount the OP suggests.
Yeah.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Actually? I strongly believe that 'FREE for LIFE!' Supercharger access may not be available as it is for Model S. Meaning, it will not be for the life of the car, so much as it is for the term of ownership by the original purchaser. Thus, if you sell the car, someone else will have to pay the activation fee for Supercharger access again, if they want it... At least, on the base version of the car. Those who purchase a car at a trim level with Supercharger access included by default will get it 'FREE for LIFE', without any further rigmarole, if they resell it later. My guess is that on trade-ins that become CPO cars, Tesla Motors will simply unlock them to their full potential for resale, then set prices accordingly.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Even without presuming an amount, roughly equivalent to 11.4% of profit margin per car, being set aside to provide for Superchargers would easily take care of building them all... Your statement is utterly ridiculous based upon the notion that the entire worldwide Supercharger network could have been financed strictly from using funds garnered from the sale of ZEV Credits earned thus far. Tesla Motors has several earnings reports published over the past three years that specifically point out that the cost of operation for Superchargers is all but insignificant. So claiming that the company is in any way 'losing money' because of today's Supercharger network lacks any and all validity.
Tesla Motors is a rapidly expanding company. Their supposed 'losses' are the result of that highly recommended and absolutely necessary expansion. Research and development, to offer newer, better products, also contributes to their expenses. If the firm did not have the vision and competence needed to move their operations forward into the future to face the challenges that await them, they could have cried 'UNCLE!' well before deciding to even mention a Gigafactory publicly.
They could have been perfectly satisfied with selling seven years' worth of the Model S in only three-and-a-half years. They could have remained a niche manufacturer of 'Toys... for the RICH!' for the next three decades. And their next product offering would not be a Model ☰ and there would be no plans for a Pickup Truck, or Semi Truck, or Automated People Mover to arrive... SOON. Instead, their product line would have been fleshed out with a Tesla Model Z Hypercar and a Tesla Model L Pullman Limousine. Oh, and regular quarterly dividends would have flowed to stockholders like milk and honey through all of Silicon Valley.
Dude. Money spent on ensuring growth and maintaining survival is not a 'loss'. That is an INVESTMENT.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Please note that originally, the fee charged to Model S 60 owners was $2,000 at the time of order, and $2,500 after Delivery -- for the DC Fast Charging Hardware that allowed the car to use Superchargers. The Supercharger network itself was always meant to be FREE of additional fees, for LIFE, the life of the car. So, no one was paying for the Supercharger network. They were paying to access it, by paying for the DC Fast Charging Hardware and its installation.Wishful thinking ... I hope you are correct, but it is all speculation until Tesla announces pricing next year.
At some point it was determined that it was easier to simply include the DC Fast Charging Hardware in every car at the time of manufacture. So the fee became a software unlock instead of a hardware installation fee. And ever since, each and every Tesla Motors product has included the hardware to Supercharge, even if it were not active.
Remember: Tesla Motors expected to sell roughly 15,000 of the Model S per year, worldwide, if they were lucky, back in 2012. Their first full calendar year, they sold 22,000 worldwide. 31,000 in 2014, and another 50,000 in 2015. So, over the course of 3-1/2 years, they sold the equivalent of 7 years worth of cars. I believe that well over 95% of those included the DC Fast Charging Hardware. So that technology has paid for itself several times over already. Since the same basic hardware will be used in the Model ☰ -- a car they intend to build as many as 500,000 units per year of -- then YES, no matter your protests, that means the economies of scale involved will be far less than $2,000 per unit.
Something tells me that come the end of 2020, if Tesla Motors has sold 3,500,000 units of Model ☰ worldwide already, in only 3-and-a-half years, Elon Musk is going to be very happy.
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