Surge in Electricity Tariff

[Smileysam]

It matters not what the energy we use costs to generate the people with the power will always be able to provide an explanation to justify why it costs us so much, there is always a reason why prices to the consumer must rise, demand V supply, costs of infrastructure and maintenance, environmental reasons, the truth is people economising causes prices to rise.

People are reducing their demand on energy, equipment is designed to consume less energy, more efficient systems, LEDs instead of incandescent etc - so if each household reduces their consumption then the energy companies earn less - and they are not going to wear that, every company wants to increase profits year on year so the cost per KWhr is increased to offset the consumers reduced consumption. (plus a bit extra)

I suspect Electricity is substantially rising because the fat cats at the top of the energy companies can see the growth in the electric vehicle market, they know most vehicles will be charged at home overnight and that's too good an opportunity to miss out on, cheap overnight deals will end and I also suspect the government will raise the price of the VAT on energy as they loose the tax on petrol/Diesel as sales diminish.

The smokescreen - which is the government encouraging the nation to conserve energy, to be green, waste less, recycle everything is just that - a smokescreen - they say they will be carbon zero by 2050 - you know they wont, Actions speak louder than words - so if you want to encourage clean energy then you don't cut or reduce those subsidies that were introduced to drive the clean energy drive.

Removal of the FIT tariffs for Solar.
Abolish the generation payments for those generating excess energy at home and feeding back to the grid
Home battery storage - increase the VAT on batteries from 5% to 20%
Remove the congestion charge exemption for full electric vehicles
Reduction in BIK for all electric vehicles
Remove/ reduce the grants that encouraged people to insulate homes better
Reduce/remove the grant towards home charge points

Smart Meters - These are designed to make the energy companies a lot more money - they are able to do away with the meter readers so a substantial saving - however, they have always justified these readers by saying they also carry out visual safety checks on the meters - and not one of them have a gas safe or Electricity qualification that qualifies them to carry out such checks.
Once the majority are on smart meters then variable charging is to be introduced - so peak demand will attract peak prices - eat your Dinner at the normal time and you will pay dearly for the privilege.

Yes unfortunately I think you're right. Your smart meter will know when it's charging your car and eventually that electricity will be taxed in the way fuel is taxed to cover the losses on fuel duty.

Generating your own electricity has to be the way forward.

 

[Adopado]

After my first year, I accepted a good price, about 3p per Kw more but still only 13p with a daily charge of 19p. This was inclusive of VAT.
About a month later they said I hadn’t accepted and put me on a higher price again inclusive of VAT.
Now I look at my account and it states the price excluding VAT.
I have religiously updated my meter reading on the last day of the month, then in About the 23rd July they sent me a DD request for £134 when I’ve only used 350 Kw last month and I’m already in credit.
OctopusEnergy take over on Saturday.

With any supplier, including Octopus, I recommend requesting that you have a variable Direct Debit to pay your bill fully each month. Otherwise they set an unsuitable DD that ends up with a constant surplus in your account (I.e. their bank account!) that is a pain to get back.

 

[Simavon]

We have just had our monthly DD tripled by EDF as they have been failing to adjust accurately due to our usage being low in summer and high in winter partly due to solar panels. It would be much simpler to have been paying in full! As we’ve just initiated our switch to Octopus we will have a very large final bill.

 

[OfficialMark_H]

With any supplier, including Octopus, I recommend requesting that you have a variable Direct Debit to pay your bill fully each month. Otherwise they set an unsuitable DD that ends up with a constant surplus in your account (I.e. their bank account!) that is a pain to get back.

I agree, and that’s what I had with symbio, this is why they took more and more money without any regard for the readings they were given.

 

[Dilly]

Slightly off piste. I watched Guy Martin doing his EV thing last night on channel 4.
He was horrified by 70p/Kw from an Instavolt Ionity charger to charge an Ioniq 5.
So was I, that‘s roughly 17p/mile. I suspect when we are all electric, that’s how it’ll be for the majority.

 

[GRiLLA]

Yes unfortunately I think you're right. Your smart meter will know when it's charging your car and eventually that electricity will be taxed in the way fuel is taxed to cover the losses on fuel duty.

Generating your own electricity has to be the way forward.

Why do people assume that electricity must be taxed more like petrol? The revenue from fuel sales is about £20Bn or 2% of the UK total tax income, VED is utterly minimal and probably only just covers the cost to administrate it. The recent plans to properly tax multinational companies practically closes that loss.

Petrol was taxed as we all knew it was bad, it was taxed to reduce use, and encourage people to think about the efficiency of their vehicles, same category as taxing cigarettes and alcohol. I don't see why domestic EVs should be in that category, a tax on people going places is kinda regressive, even for a tory government.

Any tax should move to where it continues to change behavior, a tax on aviation fuel like the EU brought in would be a good start, or maybe a frequent flyer levy if we want to avoid penalising the majority. Adding further penalty to the emission charging scheme that we introduced to replace EU equivalent, or how about we just seize the assets of BP and Shell and close them.

* All of this assumes we don't continue to elect the morally and intellectually bankrupt.

 

[GlynG]

@Dilly . I suspect you are bang on the money, 70p per KWhr is extortionate but if people use those chargers then there is no reason for the company to reduce the price - they will make hay whilst the sun shines - morality and fairness doesn't exist in business - its all about greed.
People need to avoid these chargers and only then will the price drop, however, if possible Instavolt need a little lesson - a boycott of their services, just a shame the charging network isnt comprehensive enough to be able to do that effectively.

 

[Jason71]

Slightly off piste. I watched Guy Martin doing his EV thing last night on channel 4.
He was horrified by 70p/Kw from an Instavolt charger to charge an Ioniq 5.
So was I, that‘s roughly 17p/mile. I suspect when we are all electric, that’s how it’ll be for the majority.

it was Ionity not Instavolt that charged him 70p per kwh. And then amusingly only charged at 38kw since it was faulty. and sure but we wont be doing all our charging on rapids.

I am fine with them doing this sort of test and pointing out how bad it is but I thought they went a bit far. The program was actually pretty fair and pointed out stuff like given ranges are not based 100% on highway so you wont get close to the stated range on a motorway only road trip. But as you would expect his 1200 mile trip Grimsby to John O groats was a 27 hour charging disaster. and his takeaway was if you want an electric car to drive more than 50 miles from your home wait a couple of years the infrastructure is not there yet.
Aside from the fact that most of us are not driving to the most remote place in the country if they "do more than 50 miles a day" so not very representative. Grimsby to London would have made more sense. but also they spent the whole piece calling every Rapid charger a "supercharger" but did not actually give a nod to Tesla to say actually this could be done 6 hours more quickly with zero pain if you have a Tesla. Which would have been nice.

Some Youtuber needs to repeat that journey in an MS or 3LR and show how it should be done!

 

[GRiLLA]

@Dilly . I suspect you are bang on the money, 70p per KWhr is extortionate but if people use those chargers then there is no reason for the company to reduce the price - they will make hay whilst the sun shines - morality and fairness doesn't exist in business - its all about greed.
People need to avoid these chargers and only then will the price drop, however, if possible Instavolt need a little lesson - a boycott of their services, just a shame the charging network isnt comprehensive enough to be able to do that effectively.

I would be assuming this is Ionity not Instavolt, and that's the charge for non members (Hyundai look likely to being members soon anyway). Instavolt are more like 40p/KWH.

 

[Dilly]

Yes, it was Ionity. My mistake
the ‘not working’ and ‘not working properly’ has to improve if we are to succeed.

 

[sparkymark75]

Why do people assume that electricity must be taxed more like petrol?

I don't think it's that we think it must be taxed like petrol, but the cynics in us think they will tax it like petrol. The government so far appear to be all soundbites and no action.

 

[Jason71]

Yes unfortunately I think you're right. Your smart meter will know when it's charging your car and eventually that electricity will be taxed in the way fuel is taxed to cover the losses on fuel duty.

Generating your own electricity has to be the way forward.

electricity wont be taxed like fuel. No point and too hard. if they tax my charge point at a higher rate than my house what is to stop me using a UMC.
just too hard to enforce. They will just charge for use not for fuel i.e. road pricing or just a simple charge per mile. That i my prediction anyway.

 

[MrBadger]

TRL | TRL's response to consultation on zero emission vehicles and road pricing

A summary of TRL’s written response to the Dept for Transport invitation to submit views on the acceleration of the ban of the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles to 2030, and on the possible introduction of road pricing.

trl.co.uk

and its not a new idea!

TRL | Road Pricing: The economical and technical possibilities

ISBN Author Foreword by R J Smeed Pages 61 Reference MISC17

trl.co.uk

 

[GRiLLA]

electricity wont be taxed like fuel. No point and too hard. if they tax my charge point at a higher rate than my house what is to stop me using a UMC.
just too hard to enforce. They will just charge for use not for fuel i.e. road pricing or just a simple charge per mile. That i my prediction anyway.

Well, if the government is going to create a whole new way of taxing that requires some black box in the car to track where you drive then it will take decades to develop and answer the privacy issues. Yes I can see the current lot trying (especially if they can give a deal to a friend to develop the system) but I doubt it would ever really complete. By that point so many people would be used to not paying fuel duty it would be electoral suicide.
Using the mileage figure from cars wouldn't be fair, they aren't accurate enough.

 

[SpareHeadOne]

* All of this assumes we don't continue to elect the morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Good luck with that plan...

 

[Jason71]

Well, if the government is going to create a whole new way of taxing that requires some black box in the car to track where you drive then it will take decades to develop and answer the privacy issues. Yes I can see the current lot trying (especially if they can give a deal to a friend to develop the system) but I doubt it would ever really complete. By that point so many people would be used to not paying fuel duty it would be electoral suicide.
Using the mileage figure from cars wouldn't be fair, they aren't accurate enough.

as opposed to a new way of taxing electricity used at home based on where it goes? which was the suggestion I was responding to. But yes that is exactly what I think they will do. Whether it will be gps, based on millage or even energy consumption ( as measured at the car end not supply) and whether it will be competently implemented I have no idea. I'm sure it won't be easy either way but unless someone invents red electricity I honestly can't see another practical way to milk motorists in the post ICE era.

 

[Peter 224]

The Gas prices in Europe are heavily influenced by Mr Putin and the German Government. The Gas distribution network is evolving so that Putin can punish his enemies in Eastern Europe by reducing gas supply and putting up prices, leaving western Europe with gas. For now.
The UK needs energy independence, which may mean accepting some new gas wells in the short/medium term whilst Roll Royce get their mini reactors in place and renewables increase.

 

[Morhydro]

Slightly off piste. I watched Guy Martin doing his EV thing last night on channel 4.
He was horrified by 70p/Kw from an Instavolt Ionity charger to charge an Ioniq 5.

Please people - please........kWh not kW when talking about Energy. Not just Dilly, there are several similar errors in this thread.

Analogy;

What is the range of your Tesla? Oh I get about 300 mph. NO WRONG!.... I get about 300 Miles.

How fast is your Tesla? Oh I can go about 135 Miles. NO WRONG!.... I can go about 135 mph.

I know it confuses some because of the use of the word 'hour' in kWh. But if we are criticising the media for denigrating EVs then we need to get the units correct. I am happy to post a more complete explanation of why we use this terminology and who Mr. Joule and Mr. Watt were and why we use their names.

Rant over.... but I was also horrified by Guy Martin in a clear set up to show that EVs are no good.

 

[Dilly]

Please people - please........kWh not kW when talking about Energy. Not just Dilly, there are several similar errors in this thread.

Analogy;

What is the range of your Tesla? Oh I get about 300 mph. NO WRONG!.... I get about 300 Miles.

How fast is your Tesla? Oh I can go about 135 Miles. NO WRONG!.... I can go about 135 mph.

I know it confuses some because of the use of the word 'hour' in kWh. But if we are criticising the media for denigrating EVs then we need to get the units correct. I am happy to post a more complete explanation of why we use this terminology and who Mr. Joule and Mr. Watt were and why we use their names.

Rant over.... but I was also horrified by Guy Martin in a clear set up to show that EVs are no good.

Yes I meant and indeed typed kWh but damned auto correct constantly alters it.
Took three attempts to get it right in this post.
I’ve no doubt that accounts for much of the errors you see.
Frankly, I couldn’t be bothered to edit it out on this occasion as anyone reading the post will know what’s meant

 

[Jason71]

Please people - please........kWh not kW when talking about Energy. Not just Dilly, there are several similar errors in this thread.

Analogy;

What is the range of your Tesla? Oh I get about 300 mph. NO WRONG!.... I get about 300 Miles.

How fast is your Tesla? Oh I can go about 135 Miles. NO WRONG!.... I can go about 135 mph.

I know it confuses some because of the use of the word 'hour' in kWh. But if we are criticising the media for denigrating EVs then we need to get the units correct. I am happy to post a more complete explanation of why we use this terminology and who Mr. Joule and Mr. Watt were and why we use their names.

Rant over.... but I was also horrified by Guy Martin in a clear set up to show that EVs are no good.

is it pacificly the whole kw/kwh thing that annoys you or do are other mistakes effect you as well. I bet your head literally exploded when you read it. I will try to insure I am more careful in future. Its good you had a chance to say your peace but please bare in mind their not doing it on purpose.