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SW version 2021.4.12 - hopeless (in Aus at least)

P100D_Me

Member
Nov 12, 2018
993
933
Australia
I think it is probably a concern to implement both "traffic aware cruise control" and "cruise control that will happily drive into obstacles" in the same vehicle
Two other vehicles in our house have adaptive cruise control that can be turned on or off, one button that when pressed they both show "Adaptive Cruise Disabled' on the cluster....not that hard. And that does not stop the Auto-braking system (AEB) working.
 
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paulp

Active Member
Jul 23, 2015
2,676
1,219
Adelaide, Australia
I think it is probably a concern to implement both "traffic aware cruise control" and "cruise control that will happily drive into obstacles" in the same vehicle, since it would be easy at any given time to think you had the first enabled when you actually had the second.
Not really. I can currently engage tacc or autopilot. Its up to me to remember which one I’m in (or refer to the icons). I just think tesla need to give owners the option of a basic cruise control until they sort out something that is less twitchy as a tacc with owners that are happy to take that pain.
I think tesla are forgetting that I purchased my car as I wanted an EV. I‘m more than happy to be the driver and do not require the car to drive for me.
 
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ZeeDoktor

Member
Dec 3, 2019
179
310
Sydney
Just to reiterate: set your follow distance to 3 or greater and the number of phantom braking instances will drastically reduce if not disappear altogether.

And on that note, the follow distance in time is 1s at 1 and maximum 2s at 7.
 

paulp

Active Member
Jul 23, 2015
2,676
1,219
Adelaide, Australia
Just to reiterate: set your follow distance to 3 or greater and the number of phantom braking instances will drastically reduce if not disappear altogether.

And on that note, the follow distance in time is 1s at 1 and maximum 2s at 7.
Tried that when you suggested it, had two events since, which is about the normal frequency. I currently have it set at 5 To see if that works (working my way up).
 

Flatbat

Member
Nov 12, 2019
330
310
Melbourne
And on that note, the follow distance in time is 1s at 1 and maximum 2s at 7.
I do not believe it is as clear cut as that. There are plenty of discussion on the interwebs about it, but no definitive answer that I can find. An interesting discussion over at Reddit about follow distance https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/inmx5c I tend to like the explanation someone there postulated that "the numbers 1 to 7 only differentiate between the minimum and maximum you can set autopilot/cruize control to keep distance. It is never measures in seconds or car length. It's set based on the capability of the cars current software meaning 1 is the lowest allowed by the current software and 7 the most distance."

But I dunno if it is true :)
 

race4life81

TSLA Investor ; Model 3 Perf - 2021 (waiting)
Apr 14, 2021
27
6
Melbourne, Australia
During my couple of test drives, I did find the follow distance setting 1 to be very close may be too close, 3 was a good option but anything above 5 left way too much space but then again I only test drove it for a few mins and didn't get a chance to do an extended test drive for long time.
 

Vostok

Active Member
Jul 1, 2017
1,389
1,485
Sydney
Just to reiterate: set your follow distance to 3 or greater and the number of phantom braking instances will drastically reduce if not disappear altogether.
It’s set to 3 on my profile and 4 on my wife’s. Still get the phantom braking at roughly the same rate, 1-2 times over a 200-300km drive.
 
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ZeeDoktor

Member
Dec 3, 2019
179
310
Sydney
Interesting feedback, thanks. The phantom braking seems inconsistent between vehicles. Regarding the following distance: I wrote a gauge for the teslax app that shows the distance to the radar target in front in seconds. On a recent longer drive I set the follow distance to 1, 3, and 7, at 80 and 110 km/h speed. At both speeds, the car kept 1s nailed at follow distance 1, ~1.3s at a setting of 3, and 2s at a setting of 7. I don't know the canbus signal for the follow distance setting - if anyone can let me know I can extract it from my logs and create some plots for better edufemacation.
 

ZeeDoktor

Member
Dec 3, 2019
179
310
Sydney
I finally managed to locate the CAN message containing the follow distance setting. I drove about 20 minutes on the highway with setting 1, setting 3 and setting 7. You can clearly see from the data that the 1 corresponds to about 1 second of follow time, 3 is about 1.3 seconds, and 7 is about 2 seconds. I also drove for about 5 minutes on city roads doing 40'ish km/h with TACC follow set to 3 - if anything it seems to leave a little more room when going slower rather than faster, although I suspect that is biased due to stop and go traffic which tends to space it out a bit further.

followsecs.png
 

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Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
773
310
Tea Gardens
Keeping to topic (software) does anyone find the autoparking a pain?
I used to chicken out because it seemed to get so close to the car on the left but I'm now more comfy with it. However, it only picks up valid spaces about 50% of the time, and takes forever backing in with usually at least one forward movement after the first bit.
Both must be very frustrating for a following car, and I'm afraid of getting shot one day......
 

WalkChicago

New Member
Apr 23, 2021
2
3
Chicago
Happens here in the US too.
I used to have this lane change abort problem in my 2018 T3 (with updated HW and FSD) in 2019 and after many emails (with logs and videos) with Tesla, they were able to fix it. Fast forward to 2021.4.12.2 SW a month ago, The problem is back. Mostly seen in NOA mode when changing lane out of the left lane (remember its in the US driving on the right side) , starts blinkers, starts to move to adjacent lane (no traffic around) and midway into the move aborts the move, gets back to the left lane, blinkers still on, settles down and then tries again and usually makes it, on second or third try.
 
Aug 24, 2016
2,219
1,518
Outside a bubble
Correct me if I’m wrong, but TACC is not in beta?
If so, what would happen if on TACC your Tesla crashed into the back of another car because it didn’t brake in time?
I don’t think the ‘driver should be in control of the car at all times’ would cut the mustard.
I see it as no different to the car’s brakes failing & hence Tesla (the manufacturer) would have to pay
 

ZeeDoktor

Member
Dec 3, 2019
179
310
Sydney
"Driver should be in control of the vehicle at all times" 100% does cut the mustard I'm afraid. You have to be switched on, at all times, especially with autopilot engaged. But it's a different kind of switched on. You need to learn to "manage" your drives, rather than "driving" them, much like an airline pilot manages a flight. Psychologically, that is what Tesla *should* be promoting. Not full automation. That is years away for point to point FSD.

I tend to look at the Autopilot (and generally all driver assist features) in the Tesla the same way I treat an autopilot in an airplane. It's an extremely powerful assist function that takes a lot of the tedium out of long haul flying / driving. But it has its limits. And you have to know those limits in order to keep yourself, your pax, and your machine healthy.

In an airplane, every takeoff is flown manually, there simply are no autopilots that handle takeoffs today. Not because it couldn't be done, but because it's the single most critical phase of flight, and the delay between taking manual control and already being in manual control is too long when having to abort a takeoff. The earliest any airline will allow you to switch on the autopilot is passing 400ft above ground after takeoff. But many pilots will choose to fly manually until clear of terminal areas - at least the vertical/lateral AP modes don't usually come on until about 10 minutes or so after takeoff. Why? Because there's often a lot of traffic in terminal areas, and quick reaction time is often needed to avoid jerking your machine around, and you want to keep it smooth for all involved. When I drive my Tesla, I do the same thing. I drive manually until I'm on a major road, then AP+AS is taking over, and I put myself in the mindset of *managing* the drive, no longer *driving* it.

But what does that mean? It's simple: It means you sit there, and you supervise the autopilot. You make sure it performs within specs, and you keep your eyes out for situations that might get it in trouble (as opposed to seeking those conditions and then complaining it almost killed you). When flying an airplane and you encounter near coffee spilling bumps, it's time to get your hands on the yoke and throttle, ready to disconnect the autopilot/autothrottle if it gets worse (or it disconnects on its own because it can't keep up). Do the same thing in the car when conditions warrant it. Drive tactically, stay away from other traffic as best as possible. Work WITH the autopilot, not AGAINST it. When I drive on a highway, my eyes are several hundred meters ahead and in the back. AP in Nav mode never even comes close to anticipating as well as I can when it is time to switch lanes (I hence rarely if ever use Nav mode). I want to stay out of the way of the hurried ones in the right lane (left lane for northern hemisphereans) while not getting stuck behind a slow mover in the left lane (right lane in the north). That takes looking a lot further than the radar/cameras can do with present day tech. The forward looking radar in my Model S will pick up targets that are new only about 80 meters out. Targets moving away from me can stay in the radar range up to 110m for cars, and 150m for a truck with a large radar cross section. That still doesn't even come close to how far out I'm scanning visually when driving myself.

It's unfortunate that Tesla appear hellbent on forcing FSD on everyone even though it's a long way off, and refuses to spend manpower on improving the "drive management" way of driving by supporting better partial automation.
 

P100D_Me

Member
Nov 12, 2018
993
933
Australia
It's unfortunate that Tesla appear hellbent on forcing FSD on everyone even though it's a long way off, and refuses to spend manpower on improving the "drive management" way of driving by supporting better partial automation.
Because Elon promised the 'drive itself across the USA' would be ready years ago, trying to see that fantasy come to some sort of reality I guess.
 

Vostok

Active Member
Jul 1, 2017
1,389
1,485
Sydney
Correct me if I’m wrong, but TACC is not in beta?
If so, what would happen if on TACC your Tesla crashed into the back of another car because it didn’t brake in time?
I don’t think the ‘driver should be in control of the car at all times’ would cut the mustard.
I see it as no different to the car’s brakes failing & hence Tesla (the manufacturer) would have to pay
I’m way more worried about being rear-ended by a vehicle because TACC is on and there is a phantom braking event.

That would be Tesla’s fault - hard to blame the driver in that situation.
 

cafz

Member
Jul 17, 2020
264
225
Australia
I’m way more worried about being rear-ended by a vehicle because TACC is on and there is a phantom braking event.

That would be Tesla’s fault - hard to blame the driver in that situation.
I'd say it would be the driver behind's fault for not leaving an adequate following distance.

It might be the Tesla reacting to an obstacle that's not there, but it equally could be the driver reacting to a real obstacle - like a tree branch on the road or something.
 
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