Swapping is Coming [Discuss how it will be accomplished]

[efusco]

Looks in this photo that we are also seeing a new "hybrid Wheel" Silver around the tire and dark centers! A new look!!

Good eye!! Very sharp.

 

[Lump]

Looks in this photo that we are also seeing a new "hybrid Wheel" Silver around the tire and dark centers! A new look!!

I really like these new wheels, the all grey never did it for me.

 

[Lloyd]

Is there going to be a online feed to the event or do we have to wait until 9:30 for it to post?

 

[dsm363]

No live feed.

 

[mitch672]

No live feed.

Cinergi: are you on the plane yet?

 

[Norbert]

lets assume pack swap is 60 seconds, thats 85kwh x 60 swaps per hour ~ 5,000kw 'recharge rate' ~ 50supercharger slots

lets assume there are 50 supercharger slots, 50 DC chargers (or 25 twin share) but 100 cars turn up at once.

instead of making 2 batches of 50 park and charge,
1 batch can park and charge
1 batch can swap and go
but only 50 DC chargers (or 25 twin share) are now needed to serve 100 cars.
ie
once a supercharger station is large enough, there is synergy between charging and swapping, the swap station can use the DC supercharging infrastructure at non peak times (ie off peak, and shoulder) (and DC supercharging can probably use swap station storage usefully also)

so the application of swapstations becomes a frugal way for Tesla to serve both chargers and swappers

the exact numbers will change ie swap time, charge rate etc, but the principle remains, there is synergy to co-locate the services, but it starts with a large charging station and cheaply doubles it capacity.

Its probably closer to a 12 spot charge station becomes a good base to add swapNgo capability

That's, I think, the kind of calculation that will matter. And looking specifically at the peak, as the intention is to configure the number of charger stations for the peak time: Each pre-charged battery in the swap station can take one car off the peak, so at the margin it's the cost of storing the battery (the incremental cost being mostly the battery itself) against the cost of a SuperCharger.

A battery is probably less expensive !

I think if the cost of a swapper network is maybe $200 million, covering the US to some degree, then the question is not "if", but "when" Tesla will build such a network. If demand from Model S owners isn't large enough, demand from Gen III will surely be more than enough. Especially with a buy-the-car, rent-the-battery program, since then you don't have your "own" battery to worry about.

 

[brianman]

I don't know what you're smoking but pass some this way please.

I don't think I could handle what he's smoking.

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TMSOAWWSHBSW (Tesla Model S Owner Anxiety While Waiting to See How Battery Swap Works) :scared:

TFA = Teased Feature Anxiety

 

[FreeOfPge]

Especially with a buy-the-car, rent-the-battery program, since then you don't have your "own" battery to worry about.

That would be a deal breaker, no way I am renting half my car, it would be like owning a house and renting the yard.

 

[Norbert]

That would be a deal breaker, no way I am renting half my car, it would be like owning a house and renting the yard.

You are attached to your battery? I guess we have to make it optional, then.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

You are attached to your battery? I guess we have to make it optional, then.

But how would you feel after having swapped your loved almost new battery (2% degradation) with a battery having 15% degradation? :cursing:

 

[deonb]

But how would you feel after having swapped your loved almost new battery (2% degradation) with a battery having 15% degradation? :cursing:

Now if only there was a place to swap this sucky 15% degraded battery for another one...

 

[Citizen-T]

But how would you feel after having swapped your loved almost new battery (2% degradation) with a battery having 15% degradation? :cursing:

As long as Tesla ensures that the batteries in the swap network are at least good enough to get you comfortably to the next Supercharging station, it won't matter how degraded "your" battery is. Think about it, it won't affect your ability to take long trips (can still swap it or supercharge it) and it won't affect resale value (can always swap it).

As long as the battery in my car can get me comfortably to where I am going, I don't care if I swap a 2% degraded one for a 15% degraded one.

Is a smartphone battery that lasts 5 days better than one that lasts 24 hours? Not really, I plug it in every night.

 

[FreeOfPge]

You are attached to your battery? I guess we have to make it optional, then.

Haha, actually, I am easily fooled so if the car cost $XXX.XX but came with a "free battery to use as needed" well then who cares how many kwh are left and yep, I would pay a swap/rent charge as long as it's a per swap charge, not monthly. Blue Rhino meets netflix....

 

[Norbert]

But how would you feel after having swapped your loved almost new battery (2% degradation) with a battery having 15% degradation? :cursing:

As I said in another thread, if the max range of a new battery is important to you, you wouldn't. You'd wait until your battery is a bit degraded itself. Otherwise, you'd a get a higher credit for "your" battery when you enter the battery sharing. Or you'd wait until there are 100 kWh batteries available for swapping, as 100 kWh degraded by 15% is 85 kWh. Eventually, you'll get a better range, so it's just a question of time until you join the battery sharing goodness. Except maybe if you have enough money to frequently buy a new battery. In that case, you can't have both max range and <1 min swapping, so you'd have to choose.

Unless Tesla will be able to return your original battery at the end of the trip, of course. But I'm not necessarily expecting that to be possible, as it seems to require much larger storage facilities.

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Haha, actually, I am easily fooled so if the car cost $XXX.XX but came with a "free battery to use as needed" well then who cares how many kwh are left and yep, I would pay a swap/rent charge as long as it's a per swap charge, not monthly. Blue Rhino meets netflix....

Right, I'm thinking of a monthly fee for those who buy the car without battery, or for those who have been swapping for longer than the estimated lifetime of their original battery.

While I think that's a way it could work, I am not expecting exactly that to be announced tonight. I'm as curious as anyone about what they came up with.

 

[NigelM]

My money is on a power swap and not a physical battery swap.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

My money is on a power swap and not a physical battery swap.

I think power swap would be the best thing. But then would power swap degrade heavily the battery? Or the DC charging would degrade the battery as when charging with the Supercharger?

 

[JRP3]

A 45 second power swap? Did I miss a change in the laws of physics?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

A 45 second power swap? Did I miss a change in the laws of physics?

I would prefer a 5 minute power swap to a 45 second physical swap.

 

[Johan]

My money is on a power swap and not a physical battery swap.

45 seconds? Sorry, fugedaboutit. A connector the size of two elephant schlongs would have to be in place.

 

[kilpatds]

Um, since the reactions at the bottom of this are all chemical, isn't the issue of how to move power from the substation to the car still ignoring the actual limiting factors? Yeah, if they put a supercap of some form in the frunk and used that to charge the battery once you were back on the road ... but otherwise the max charging rate for the 85 is likely in the general ballpark of 310kW(the max power draw. Same chemical reactions, except backwards makes that seems like a plausible upper bound. Superchargers are currently limited to 120kW?) no matter what the connecting cable is.