Switching from TM3 to Jaguar I-Pace

[wws]

... You can, right now, drive the Jaguar from Edmonton Alberta to Miami, or from Tijuana to Nova Scotia, using only DCFCs,

Looking at the plugshare map, it seems like it would be hard to do a CCS-only transcontinental trip right now. There are still a few large (200+ mile) gaps. The largest being between Fillmore, UT and Grand Junction, Co. at 260 miles with a lot of elevation changes.

 

[ngogas]

Love completions. Better for us all.

 

[svp6]

I took the liberty to redo Bjorn's graph in a different way - perhaps more meaningful of what the impact for long distance travel. For calculations I used the rated range for model X estimated here (320, 320, and 334 Wh/mile for the 75, 90, and 100 battery packs - non performance) and for I-Pace here (84.7 kWh effective battery size with 234 mile rated range gives ~362 Wh/mile at rated range).

So how much range do you get in those ~36 minutes of peak charging with Tesla vs ~42 minutes of peak charging with the I-Pace?
For now, the comparison is quite damaging (40-50 more rated miles for Tesla). If the 100 kW update comes and can maintain the plateau for the same 42 minutes (that is an assumption only at this time), then gained range gets closer to the Tesla. Of course, comparison with model S and model 3 will be much worse.

I wanted to like the Jag badly, I still love the design, but the range is a big problem for me.

 

[svp6]

That was, like, 72 hrs ago. Old news!

You mean fake news ?

 

[FranceUSA]

As a former Jag convertible owner I learned to always have a back up car since the jag was often in the shop. May be a model 3 should be ordered still.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

With the price drop on the Performance Model 3 & the imminent release into Europe, Jaguar is going to struggle big time.

 

[BobAbooey]

Did you look at the Audi? Audi e-tron | The first purely electric SUV from Audi | Audi USA

After a long waiting, my wife decided to switch from the TM3 to the Jaguar I-Pace.

We are living in Switzerland and just saw the I-Pace at the 2018 Geneva Motor show.

The car looks great. The fit and finish, the design (exterior and interior) are superb.

We ordered it and should be delivered this September.

P.S. the dealer accepted to trade-in our 9-years old BMW 325iXdrive and added a discount on the price-tag. These last two elements were key to decide considering the different price with respect to the M3.

 

[_jmk]

I saw one today. Fit and finish was worse than on my X, was a bit surprised. Also saw audi e-tron and it was even worse, downright awful.

 

[SageBrush]

You can, right now, drive the Jaguar from Edmonton Alberta to Miami, or from Tijuana to Nova Scotia, using only DCFCs,

A more practical way to look at this without cherry picking routes is as follows:

Starting from any arbitrary point in the USA, travel 1000 miles in any direction while staying in the USA. What is the average traveling speed for each car ?

In the case of the Model 3 LR it is about 65 mph. I cannot answer the question for the Jag but I do know the following handicaps exist:

1. ~ 400 Wh/mile consumption at 70 mph
2. Routine use of more than 50% SoC between highway stations, forcing charging into the taper zone
3. Forced diversions into urban areas to find CCS stations
4. CCS uncertainty related to reliability, worsened by 1-2 stations at many locations
5. Variable Max charging speeds. 50 kW will be routinely encountered.

Now, for an example of just how badly the CCS network lags unrelated to travel speed: I live in SW Colorado and can travel *any* direction I choose for any arbitrary distance year round in my Tesla. In a Jag I am limited to a 75 - 100 mile radius as a 4 season car, and can only travel in one direction part of the year if I drive slowly. Why the huge difference ? CCS is concentrated in urban areas, as you can see in this map.

Now look at a Supercharger map. The difference is stark:

 

[Alfred]

With the price drop on the Performance Model 3 & the imminent release into Europe, Jaguar is going to struggle big time.

You are correct in that there will be some class and type cross shopping, but I do not expect a clearer picture to emerge before late 2019. Both are likely to sell initially to their public in the numbers that can be produced and distributed. The I-Paces here are already sold out for at least 9 months, as far as I was told.

Model 3 and I-Pace are not direct competitors. Model 3 is a limousine, whereas the I-Pace is a considerably more expensive sporty hatchback with nice off-road capabilities. Cars without generous hatch-type back doors are harder to sell in Switzerland.
Very important will be technical matters (pouch battery, longevity e.g.) and who will be able to provide a good service level. Jaguar service is locally well established with many more service and sales points than Tesla has currently. That should not be underestimated. When I inspected the I-Pace for the first time in June some of this dealers mechanics were already said to be away on training for the I-Pace. Jaguars do not have a universally bad image here - rather a bit better than some Italians had (Marelli against Lucas).
Well - I learnt to drive on a Mark VII...

 

[more863-also]

The iPace doesn't have any serious off road chops, the least of which is because you can't get to any real trails on the range it has. What do you Euros consider "off road", because I guarantee it'll be a bit different than the guy that lives in Cortez, CO a post or two up

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

You are correct in that there will be some class and type cross shopping, but I do not expect a clearer picture to emerge before late 2019. Both are likely to sell initially to their public in the numbers that can be produced and distributed. The I-Paces here are already sold out for at least 9 months, as far as I was told.

Model 3 and I-Pace are not direct competitors. Model 3 is a limousine, whereas the I-Pace is a considerably more expensive sporty hatchback with nice off-road capabilities. Cars without generous hatch-type back doors are harder to sell in Switzerland.
Very important will be technical matters (pouch battery, longevity e.g.) and who will be able to provide a good service level. Jaguar service is locally well established with many more service and sales points than Tesla has currently. That should not be underestimated. When I inspected the I-Pace for the first time in June some of this dealers mechanics were already said to be away on training for the I-Pace. Jaguars do not have a universally bad image here - rather a bit better than some Italians had (Marelli against Lucas).
Well - I learnt to drive on a Mark VII...

I don’t think you can raise off road driving, if:
1) the buyers of said car aren’t really in to off roading
2) to get to an off road location there isn’t the battery charge capable of getting there, driving off road & getting back to a charger

It really becomes a niche market & then my point remains, considering there is a bigger market for performance acceleration
Will be even more difficult for Jag when the Model 3 option of Smart Air Suspension is released

By the way, are the Jags actually ‘sold’ or simply ‘reserved’?

 

[Riggald]

By the way, are the Jags actually ‘sold’ or simply ‘reserved’?

Customer handovers started a month ago.(13th October).
Each dealer in the Netherlands is handing over an average of about 10 I-Paces per week.
Norway's vehicle registration system provides real-time reporting on vehicle registrations, and confirms I-Pace sales have begun there.
In the UK, my local dealer has already sold out all its first allocation. It receives its next batch of vehicles in February.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Customer handovers started a month ago.(13th October).
Each dealer in the Netherlands is handing over an average of about 10 I-Paces per week.
Norway's vehicle registration system provides real-time reporting on vehicle registrations, and confirms I-Pace sales have begun there.
In the UK, my local dealer has already sold out all its first allocation. It receives its next batch of vehicles in February.

But my question was about reservations vs sales?
If they are only reservations, then the PM3 release in Europe will cause the reservations to be cancelled

 

[Riggald]

But my question was about reservations vs sales?
If they are only reservations, then the PM3 release in Europe will cause the reservations to be cancelled

And my answer is that clearly, they are sales, as they are resulting in actual handovers of actual vehicles to actual customers, and actual registrations of ownership with actual government agencies.

Sorry if that was insufficiently clear.

 

[Alfred]

I don’t think you can raise off road driving, if:
1) the buyers of said car aren’t really in to off roading
2) to get to an off road location there isn’t the battery charge capable of getting there, driving off road & getting back to a charger

It really becomes a niche market & then my point remains, considering there is a bigger market for performance acceleration
Will be even more difficult for Jag when the Model 3 option of Smart Air Suspension is released

By the way, are the Jags actually ‘sold’ or simply ‘reserved’?

I can only say what sales staff told me: If I would order today, delivery would not be before 9 months down the road.

 

[Alfred]

What do you Euros consider "off road",

As 2/3 of Switzerland is mountains you could compare it to living somewhere in the Rockies directly - just a lot more populated. Very quickly you are on narrow, and sometimes quite steep roads. There are few opportunities to go "off-roading" to practice or for fun. It is rather that you might have e.g. a holiday batch and the last few hundred meters of your road will be the worst, but the bit you really want to get through to avoid having to carry up your supplies. This is of course a very frequent condition in winter as your access is unlikely to be cleared unless you can arrange that beforehand yourself for a (steep) fee. For reasons unknown, people think that SUVs are better on snow than 4 wheel drive limousines. That is rarely the case if the limousine has enough ground clearance or can be lifted a bit. The distance from Zurich to St, Moritz are just 202 Km, 126m, but you go across the Julier Pass (up to about 2200m) and in bad weather a SUV might inspire a bit more (false) confidence. Second issue is of course the comfortable hatch-like back door. For many the Model 3 trunk is just a no-go when they consider a SUV.

 

[sreams]

And my answer is that clearly, they are sales, as they are resulting in actual handovers of actual vehicles to actual customers, and actual registrations of ownership with actual government agencies.

Sorry if that was insufficiently clear.

No... Not "clearly". The claim was that I-Paces are sold out for 9 months. Just because each dealer is delivering 10 per day doesn't mean they are sold out for any particular length of time.

So is the 9 month figure based on orders or reservations?

 

[more863-also]

As 2/3 of Switzerland is mountains you could compare it to living somewhere in the Rockies directly - just a lot more populated. Very quickly you are on narrow, and sometimes quite steep roads. There are few opportunities to go "off-roading" to practice or for fun. It is rather that you might have e.g. a holiday batch and the last few hundred meters of your road will be the worst, but the bit you really want to get through to avoid having to carry up your supplies. This is of course a very frequent condition in winter as your access is unlikely to be cleared unless you can arrange that beforehand yourself for a (steep) fee. For reasons unknown, people think that SUVs are better on snow than 4 wheel drive limousines. That is rarely the case if the limousine has enough ground clearance or can be lifted a bit. The distance from Zurich to St, Moritz are just 202 Km, 126m, but you go across the Julier Pass (up to about 2200m) and in bad weather a SUV might inspire a bit more (false) confidence. Second issue is of course the comfortable hatch-like back door. For many the Model 3 trunk is just a no-go when they consider a SUV.

Right, so it doesn't have off road chops that a Honda Crosstour or whatever wouldn't have.

 

[Alfred]

Right, so it doesn't have off road chops that a Honda Crosstour or whatever wouldn't have.

I can't judge that but have a look at this film here (English spoken)to get an idea. The country road starts promptly at about 1.32 after the introduction.