TACC failure on Tesla Vision software

[Gratulin]

I just had a really bad experience with Radar-disabled TACC. We were passing a semi-trailer on the Hume Highway in fairly mild rain but lots of spray from the truck. TACC was set to 107km/h. As we passed the truck the TACC suddenly slowed to 90km/h. We were right beside the truck with poor visibility when this happened. It was impossible to know what had happened - especially for the driver. Since I was the passenger at the time I thought my partner had slowed deliberately but they had not done anything to slow the car. I then noticed a small alert message that was barely readable that said something about Auto Pilot being limited. That didn’t make sense to me at the time since we were only on TACC (not Auto steer). This was not a phantom brake incident. The car deliberately slowed because of the spray from the semi.

The impact of this was that we were placed into a potentially dangerous situation of being stuck beside a semi in it’s spray thinking that we were on cruise control and would therefore overtake the truck as normal.

This is a total failure of basic cruise control. Caused by the fact that the radar on our car has been disabled.

 

[Icey]

Was there a side road off the freeway or pull out for a rest stop or similar. I travel up the hume weekly and in some areas where there are the previous mentioned the car think a car is merging and slows down, rapidly often.

 

[Gratulin]

Was there a side road off the freeway or pull out for a rest stop or similar. I travel up the hume weekly and in some areas where there are the previous mentioned the car think a car is merging and slows down, rapidly often.

No, we were in the right hand lane beside the semi at the time. It was not a phantom brake situation. I checked the notifications later and it was definitely Auto Pilot deliberately reducing speed to 90km/h due to poor visibility.

 

[paulp]

I just had a really bad experience with Radar-disabled TACC. We were passing a semi-trailer on the Hume Highway in fairly mild rain but lots of spray from the truck. TACC was set to 107km/h. As we passed the truck the TACC suddenly slowed to 90km/h. We were right beside the truck with poor visibility when this happened. It was impossible to know what had happened - especially for the driver. Since I was the passenger at the time I thought my partner had slowed deliberately but they had not done anything to slow the car. I then noticed a small alert message that was barely readable that said something about Auto Pilot being limited. That didn’t make sense to me at the time since we were only on TACC (not Auto steer). This was not a phantom brake incident. The car deliberately slowed because of the spray from the semi.

The impact of this was that we were placed into a potentially dangerous situation of being stuck beside a semi in it’s spray thinking that we were on cruise control and would therefore overtake the truck as normal.

This is a total failure of basic cruise control. Caused by the fact that the radar on our car has been disabled.

Tesla built cruise control is and always has been junk. I no longer use it as I value living. The original mobileye system was brilliant. Tesla should have stayed with them.

 

[Maximillan]

No, we were in the right hand lane beside the semi at the time. It was not a phantom brake situation. I checked the notifications later and it was definitely Auto Pilot deliberately reducing speed to 90km/h due to poor visibility.

I've had the same situation with a bus on the Warringah expressway heading into the Harbour Bridge. When I use TACC I'm always ready to hit the accelerator to over rule TACC.
It's never been great, however the latest versions since around 2022.16 have been a big step backwards in TACC capability.

 

[Stratman]

Plenty of traditional automakers have radar assisted cruise without the issues Tesla have. Seems incredible to think that they can rely on poor quality cameras alone to cope with the normal variety of weather conditions a driver encounters day to day. Been several years now and the basic reliable functionality expected for cruise control and auto wipers is still nonexistent........but "FSD is coming by the end of the year for sure"...... Tesla does some great things but fixing these basic issues (and now you can add the completely useless auto high beam to this list) does not seem priority enough for them but something Tesla customers want fixed quickly and expect it should be a number priority for them. Why not add a $20 rain sensor, and also get the radar working properly so what is nowadays considered basic functionality in a car works flawlessly and deliver the customer a better driving experience. Now with radar deleted their options are less.

 

[Zigman]

It's a fair bet to say that if the car had radar active it would have probably "seen" thru the spray from the truck and keep you at your set speed, and you would have got past the truck quickly and safely.

My 6-year-old Ford Mondeo with Adaptive Cruise Control does this easily, but my 2022 M3 without radar at times struggles. Definitely feels like I've gone backwards with the radar'less Tesla in this regard. And don't even talk about phantom braking!

 

[Vostok]

As Bjørn Nyland says, “Tesla Vision SUCKS”.

 

[OzVic]

My car has slowed down annoyingly tens of times, next to trucks, over the last 3 years .. way before this TeslaVision came into effect

 

[Dch53]

My understanding is that you shouldn't use any sort of cruise control on a wet road. That if you lose traction around a curve it can drive you right off the road.

The manual says "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways."

 

[paulp]

My understanding is that you shouldn't use any sort of cruise control on a wet road. That if you lose traction around a curve it can drive you right off the road.

The manual says "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways."

But hasn’t elon musk stated that autopilot is safer at driving then a human?

 

[drtimhill]

I just had a really bad experience with Radar-disabled TACC. We were passing a semi-trailer on the Hume Highway in fairly mild rain but lots of spray from the truck. TACC was set to 107km/h. As we passed the truck the TACC suddenly slowed to 90km/h. We were right beside the truck with poor visibility when this happened. It was impossible to know what had happened - especially for the driver. Since I was the passenger at the time I thought my partner had slowed deliberately but they had not done anything to slow the car. I then noticed a small alert message that was barely readable that said something about Auto Pilot being limited. That didn’t make sense to me at the time since we were only on TACC (not Auto steer). This was not a phantom brake incident. The car deliberately slowed because of the spray from the semi.

The impact of this was that we were placed into a potentially dangerous situation of being stuck beside a semi in it’s spray thinking that we were on cruise control and would therefore overtake the truck as normal.

This is a total failure of basic cruise control. Caused by the fact that the radar on our car has been disabled.

I'm a bit confused by this .. you had poor visibility, and presumably so did the car (and it informed you of that). The car slowed down as a result of the poor visibility. That seems a sensible thing to do in the circumstances. YOU might know the spray will clear when you get past the truck, but how do you expect the car to know?

I dont think its a "total failure" at all. Visibility was reduced, the car slowed down. Also, why do you think radar would have helped? If the spray was that bad it would likely have impacted the radar as much as the cameras.

 

[Zoltrix77]

I'm a bit confused by this .. you had poor visibility, and presumably so did the car (and it informed you of that). The car slowed down as a result of the poor visibility. That seems a sensible thing to do in the circumstances. YOU might know the spray will clear when you get past the truck, but how do you expect the car to know?

I dont think its a "total failure" at all. Visibility was reduced, the car slowed down. Also, why do you think radar would have helped? If the spray was that bad it would likely have impacted the radar as much as the cameras.

Isn't this just an another point to prove that self driving cars are off in fantasy land? Seriously, Tesla has to be taking the piss here with the removal of radar, and now ultrasonic sensors. I'd really love to know exactly how high up the decision is made to remove these features; if it really is Musk himself, its just another one of his crazier and crazier decisions.

The Model 3/Y are still the best alround EV's, but they are now compromised because of management decisions. The supercharger network and car availability is keeping me for the moment..... If I had access to Tesla Superchargers in rural areas, I'd be looking for another ride.

 

[Gratulin]

I'm a bit confused by this .. you had poor visibility, and presumably so did the car (and it informed you of that). The car slowed down as a result of the poor visibility. That seems a sensible thing to do in the circumstances. YOU might know the spray will clear when you get past the truck, but how do you expect the car to know?

I dont think its a "total failure" at all. Visibility was reduced, the car slowed down. Also, why do you think radar would have helped? If the spray was that bad it would likely have impacted the radar as much as the cameras.

I’m beginning to understand and agree with this point of view. We have learned TACC’s limitations and will definitely not use it in this situation in future.

Though, in the case where TACC limits are reached the alert message should be better. Perhaps a very large warning like Auto Steer alert would work (ie Blue flashing etc).

 

[doggy1]

As a matter of (my) principle I take over from TACC when overtaking and similar manouvres, even if the weather is good...Even though (or perhaps because) I am a technologist and prefer to trust myself in those close situations.

 

[paulp]

I'm a bit confused by this .. you had poor visibility, and presumably so did the car (and it informed you of that). The car slowed down as a result of the poor visibility. That seems a sensible thing to do in the circumstances. YOU might know the spray will clear when you get past the truck, but how do you expect the car to know?

I dont think its a "total failure" at all. Visibility was reduced, the car slowed down. Also, why do you think radar would have helped? If the spray was that bad it would likely have impacted the radar as much as the cameras.

Dont aircraft use radar to see whats in and after storms?

 

[fvb14]

Dont aircraft use radar to see whats in and after storms?

Well yeah, aircraft use weather radars. Big dishes in the nose designed to see through and detect rain, hail and snow. Don't think it's really fair to compare to that.

 

[cafz]

Weather radar also can't see through storms.

 

[drtimhill]

Dont aircraft use radar to see whats in and after storms?

Yes, but there are many, many forms of radar, with different profiles, frequencies etc, and VERY different price tags.

 

[drtimhill]

Isn't this just an another point to prove that self driving cars are off in fantasy land?

Well it certainly shows that 100% self-driving is hard, but certainly Tesla are not aiming at that. But its hard for humans too. Ever been in weather so bad you have had to pull over and stop? I have, many times. Would you then say "this proves humans will never be able to drive cars?" Of course not, but you are, in effect, saying that about self-driving cars, which seems odd.

The fact is, there will always be situations that a human can handle but the car cannot, but the reverse is also true. Even today, with FSD still in its infancy, I've been in the car at night with wet slick roads with horrible reflections where I could not make out the lane markings worth squat, but the car picked them out picture-perfect. And the car doesnt get drunk, or fall asleep, or get distracted with the radio or a cell-phone, or fail to check the mirror before making a lane-change.