Tax Credit Clarification

[wdolson]

That may be, but the Bolt isn't a road trip car — no Supercharger network — so it depends on what one is looking for.

People with Bolts have reported that there is enough fast charging available at least in California to support a number of different road trips. But the supercharger network is more extensive and the costs are more predictable than the charging options for the Bolt.

Unless Bolt sales really ramp up over the next year or so, I have a feeling Tesla will reach the 200K mark well before GM does.

The thing is GM sells a fair number of Volts in the US which count against the total. In 2016 the Volt was the #2 selling plug in car in the US about 4000 behind the Model S. In total sales of cars that count against the credit, I believe 2016 was the first year Tesla led the pack. GM has been top seller most years since the credit began, they have a number of cars that count against the credit for sale in at least some states.

Tesla might end up going past 200K a quarter earlier than predicted, but it's pretty clear GM and Tesla will run out about the same time. If the Model 3 is the success it looks like it might be, that puts GM in a difficult spot. They won't be able to produce EVs in volume to meet Tesla's production and they won't be able to fall back on the tax credit either. Effectively GM will have a price hike on all their EVs right at the time overall demand goes up.

 

[landis]

Tesla might end up going past 200K a quarter earlier than predicted, but it's pretty clear GM and Tesla will run out about the same time

It is also a fair bet that Tesla will ship more cars in the credit transition periods given the current rate of SX and the projected run rate of 3.

 

[spacemnspiff]

That may be, but the Bolt isn't a road trip car — no Supercharger network — so it depends on what one is looking for.

My use case for the EV would be commute to work and local errands. I have a minivan for a long distance trips and hauling large items.
One thing that is not favorable with the Model 3 is the trunk Vs the hatch on the Bolt.

 

[wdolson]

My use case for the EV would be commute to work and local errands. I have a minivan for a long distance trips and hauling large items.
One thing that is not favorable with the Model 3 is the trunk Vs the hatch on the Bolt.

Having a hatch is much more useful than a trunk, especially considering how small trunks have gotten in modern cars.

 

[JoeCoolMan24]

True of False. A person on the title gets to claim the tax credit, not necessarily the primary driver?

Reading through the section on TurboTax, I didn't see mention of primary driver or even primary payer, just proof of name on the title.

 

[dsvick]

True of False. A person on the title gets to claim the tax credit, not necessarily the primary driver?

Reading through the section on TurboTax, I didn't see mention of primary driver or even primary payer, just proof of name on the title.

True. There is no mention of the driver in the IRS notice it only mentions the "tax payer" and that they can't claim the credit until the title is transferred so the implication is that the taxpayer must be the person on the title.

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

Having a hatch is much more useful than a trunk, especially considering how small trunks have gotten in modern cars.

That is not the case for everyone. For my use case, since a sedan is likely to have both more passenger room and better aerodynamics it would be better.

 

[wdolson]

That is not the case for everyone. For my use case, since a sedan is likely to have both more passenger room and better aerodynamics it would be better.

The Model S today is one of the most aerodynamic cars in production. The roofline is a little low and that is one of the things they redesigned with the Model 3. The Model S hasn't changed the roofline because that would be an expensive redesign, but if they changed the roofline a little bit to start sloping a little further back and raised the roof an inch or so, it would affect the aerodynamics a little, but would make the Model S more roomy than the Model 3. Other than headroom, the Model S is quite roomy inside. on par with my old Buick Roadmaster.

 

[JoeCoolMan24]

True. There is no mention of the driver in the IRS notice it only mentions the "tax payer" and that they can't claim the credit until the title is transferred so the implication is that the taxpayer must be the person on the title.

So if 2 names are on the title, and both contributed to purchasing (one pays down payment, one pays monthly payment), who gets to claim the credit? Either one?

 

[sports4eva115]

So if 2 names are on the title, and both contributed to purchasing (one pays down payment, one pays monthly payment), who gets to claim the credit? Either one?

interested too!!

 

[miimura]

So if 2 names are on the title, and both contributed to purchasing (one pays down payment, one pays monthly payment), who gets to claim the credit? Either one?

I don't think the IRS cares as long as the credit is only taken once per VIN.

 

[CallmeTony]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but when I spoke with an Advisor who said Tesla is already past 180,000 as of today.

 

[slipnslider]

People with Bolts have reported that there is enough fast charging available at least in California to support a number of different road trips. But the supercharger network is more extensive and the costs are more predictable than the charging options for the Bolt.



The thing is GM sells a fair number of Volts in the US which count against the total. In 2016 the Volt was the #2 selling plug in car in the US about 4000 behind the Model S. In total sales of cars that count against the credit, I believe 2016 was the first year Tesla led the pack. GM has been top seller most years since the credit began, they have a number of cars that count against the credit for sale in at least some states.

Tesla might end up going past 200K a quarter earlier than predicted, but it's pretty clear GM and Tesla will run out about the same time. If the Model 3 is the success it looks like it might be, that puts GM in a difficult spot. They won't be able to produce EVs in volume to meet Tesla's production and they won't be able to fall back on the tax credit either. Effectively GM will have a price hike on all their EVs right at the time overall demand goes up.

It's also possible that both GM and tesla have artificially inflated their prices to profit off the tax credit, and will cut their prices after the tax credit runs out, so that the cost to the buyer ends up being the same.

 

[dsvick]

It's also possible that both GM and tesla have artificially inflated their prices to profit off the tax credit, and will cut their prices after the tax credit runs out, so that the cost to the buyer ends up being the same.

I'd be surprised if that were true. The Bolt, from almost every account I've read, is already losing several thousand dollars on each sale. And Tesla has stated their expected margins several times, while they may be high, I don't see that they're unnecessarily high.

 

[BluestarE3]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but when I spoke with an Advisor who said Tesla is already past 180,000 as of today.

Only US sales count toward the 200,000 mark for the Federal tax credit. Pretty sure the 180,000 number, assuming it's even correct, is for total global sales.

 

[JoeCoolMan24]

It's also possible that both GM and tesla have artificially inflated their prices to profit off the tax credit, and will cut their prices after the tax credit runs out, so that the cost to the buyer ends up being the same.

According to Musk, he has pleaded with the government to get RID of the tax subsidy because he said Tesla does NOT profit off that money and the sooner that credit goes away, the bigger the advantage of Tesla.

 

[DarthPierce]

According to Musk, he has pleaded with the government to get RID of the tax subsidy because he said Tesla does NOT profit off that money and the sooner that credit goes away, the bigger the advantage of Tesla.

Tesla doesn't directly profit from it, but they do in the sense of getting people to spend more on options than they otherwise would have.

 

[timk225]

Sorry if this was mentioned in this topic, I was too lazy to go read 21 pages.

I generally get $1000 to $1500 in my tax refund (1040 ez). I file my taxes online for me and my wife. With the $7500 credit from buying my 3, does that mean I will have a tax refund check of $8500 to $9000 coming to me?

 

[Foxhound199]

Assuming the total amount you both paid in taxes (probably your withholding minus your typical refund) exceeds $7,500, then yes. If it doesn't, you can only claim up to as much as you paid.

 

[MP3Mike]

you can only claim up to as much as you paid.

No, you can only claim up to as much as your total tax burden. It really has nothing to do with how much you have paid. (You could have paid $10,000 but not qualify for a single cent of the $7,500 tax credit. Also, you could have paid $0 and still get the full benefit of the $7,500 tax credit.)