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Tesla App eligible upgrades says FSD...but I have that...I think?

captjoemcd

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Nov 29, 2019
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Take a look at the current tesla used vehicles page. These are the only 3 options. Selecting Original Autopilot brings up cars with "Autopilot with Convenience Features", selecting Autopilot brings up cars with "Autopilot", and selecting Full Self Driving brings up..... cars with "Full Self Driving Capability" listed exclusively. No listings show "Full Self Driving"
upload_2020-6-22_14-28-9.png
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Get in touch with your original sales guy. When I switched my car between email accounts, the free unlimited supercharging fell off. They had to open a ticket but were able to get it readded.
 
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Battpower

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Browsing EV-CPO used cars, Tesla is advertising "capability" only on cars that have FSD paid for. If it was just "capability of being upgraded for more $" they should have that listed on every car with AP2 hardware but many are listed with "Autopilot" instead - not even EAP, the new lower-tier basic autopilot.

I think it is better / fixed now, but certain was inconsistency around the time EAP evolved into FSD.
 
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captjoemcd

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I think it is better / fixed now, but certain was inconsistency around the time EAP evolved into FSD.

Fully agree, but this is 100% Tesla's mistake/misrepresentation. They've made situations like this right when hardware changes were needed to the cars at significant additional expense to them (see "uncorking"). The fix is a change to OP's account and won't cost them anything in parts/labor. Tesla sold him the car with the option and there's no daylight between what his documentation shows and what he's owed in this case.
 

Battpower

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listed with "Autopilot" instead - not even EAP

Around the end of 2019 there were still some EAP cars being listed by Tesla, but now - as you say - I think its either Nothing, AP or FSD. It was as though EAP already delivered everything they were trying to also sell with FSD upgrade at that time.

Based on current consistent wording of FSD Capable, you have to think it should have FSD. The absolute clincher woud be this in the app:

Screenshot_20200622_234609_com.android.gallery3d.jpg
 

captjoemcd

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Nov 29, 2019
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Around the end of 2019 there were still some EAP cars being listed by Tesla, but now - as you say - I think its either Nothing, AP or FSD. It was as though EAP already delivered everything they were trying to also sell wit FSD upgrade at that time.

Based on current consistent wording of FSD Capable, you have to think it should have FSD. The absolute clincher woud be this in the app:

View attachment 555032
My understanding is that he's not seeing that and instead seeing the $4k option available for purchase which is the problem. Based on Tesla's advertisement and contract documentation, he bought the FSD option and they need to fix it. This should be a relatively painless fix, but we'll stay tuned for how it plays out. Big thing is there isn't any question what he bought (ie, the reason for the initial post), he bought the FSD option - there's no wiggle room for Tesla on this.
 

captjoemcd

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Nov 29, 2019
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Battpower

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Also, there was this situation which was different since there was a third party involved: Tesla Remotely Removes Autopilot Features From Customer's Used Tesla Without Any Notice [Updated]

Tesla ended up making it right. Tesla finally returns Autopilot to second-hand Model S owner

But OP's situation is different. He bought it directly from Tesla. They'll make it right (i think).

I agree. His contract wording is exactly the same as mine which is for an FSD car.
 
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captjoemcd

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OP, I wouldn’t say anything till after your HW3 appointment. You may just give them a reason to deny that.

I’d disagree. You want this fixed now. The longer you wait the weaker your position is. Tesla can remove the FSD over the air and they’ve done that when their “audits” find people who have it and haven’t paid for it. The fact that your account is showing you as not having it means you’re one easy query of the DB away from losing it.
 
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Wow, lots of new info here! Maybe this comes close: my Tesla support page on Tesla website says Enhanced Autopilot (this I didn’t see until after buying and didn’t notice EAP specifically until today).

My app lists FSD as a $4K upgrade. My “build sheet” as I refer to it/them are posted earlier and only show FSD Capability. This was all I ever saw prior to buying. I tried to clarify but didn’t get an answer until delivery (answer was yes, FSD). Battpower, I’ve never seen a sheet like what you posted. Where would I find that? I scheduled a HW3.0 upgrade for this Friday (we’ll see if that happens that quickly). It was only after I scheduled it (believing I had FSD) that I looked further and learned of these differences and the EAP note on my tesla page. Hopefully that answers all the questions. I’ll look again in the morning to see. Also need to dig out the actual signed papers to see if there’s anything there. I honestly don’t recall. Not sure I was even looking for that though since I’d already been told it had it. Like I said before, this was one of only a few must haves as I wanted to future-proof a used car as much as I could to make the best use of the money I was spending, particularly since I also had to pay the $2K to have it shipped. I’ll keep y’all posted.
 

Battpower

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I’ve never seen a sheet like what you posted. Where would I find that?

Thinking back, I realize some of the differences in documentation and terminology was down to Tesla migrating their internal computer systems. I suspect much inconsistency came from IT issues, such as one invoice having a line item that really confused me

'no - Nokia Winter tire X 4'

Very odd to point out 4 tires that I don't get with my car!

New and Used car sales seemed (at least around end 2019) to be completely different, and that document with the separate cost for FSD happened to be from the new car system. So, it may be that you did not get a corresponding cost breakdown because of how the used car is valued and sold but in the case of major software options like FSD it seems (based on cases similar to yours) should always be clearly specified.

I really think there was a lot of inconsistency in use of AP related terms around this time. The biggest issue was use of FSD name when EAP actually referred to the same feature set. You could have paid thousands and not been able to see any immediate difference if you added FSD to a car with EAP.

Given your efforts to ensure you had FSD, and your paperwork showing 'FSD capability' which today seems to mean the car has FSD, I agree with others saying get stuck in with your original sales contact(s) and have them get FSD to show in your app. I would ignore and not mention anything discussed here other than 'You sold me FSD, I bought based on FSD, this paperwork shows FSD, but my app doesn't. Please get that fixed and make sure my account is correctly configured so there is no chance of me losing the features.'

I'm not so sure about before or after HW3 upgrade appointment. I suspect you could well arrive at your appointment to be told your car isn't eligible at which point your real journey begins! I can't see any reason to not get the issue in hand ASAP with your sales contact which establishes the scene of you requesting an error / omission to be fixed rather than Tesla pointing out your mistake in booking the HW3 upgrade in an ineligible car.
 
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Battpower

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Well, I stand corrected. My X’s MVPA from August 2017 does indeed say EAP and FSD Capability. So they were doing that on paper. That means he is definitely owed the functionality.

Looks like on paper it’s ‘Full Self Driving capability’ but in the app it’s ‘Full Self Driving’.

I can't find your previous post. Was your car new or used? I guess new if you have MVPA. Iirc you could have EAP and paid for FSD option to, so EAP only was different from EAP + FSD even though the feature sets were virtually the same at the time.
 
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Battpower

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From the current TMC Lead article (which of course we know, but just to remind)

"The Enhanced Autopilot package was previously offered for $5,000, while an even more enhanced autopilot dubbed Full Self-Driving was available for an enhanced price."

From Teslarati:

Autopilot Features*

  • Auto Lane Change
  • Autosteer
  • Traffic-Aware Cruise Control
  • Autopark
  • Summon
  • Navigate on Autopilot
* The strikethroughs represents features that were originally part of Enhanced Autopilot but now moved to Full Self-Driving Capability.

Tesla (Enhanced) Autopilot vs. Full Self-Driving: What's the difference now?

I remember my head spinning trying to get this all clear at the time, and it all smacks of those Smoke and Mirror tacticts to keep the waters muddy enough that we can't really be sure of what we are buying! Hopefully it is clearer now!
 
So a little more context because some have asked and maybe it helps...who knows. I'll also see if I can summarize it all again succinctly. (BTW, all of this info y'all provided is really really helpful.). This is a little long, but it'll detail the whole buying process with dates in case that's relevant.

I started shopping seriously for a Used Model S in September, 2019. At that point I only knew about the used car section on Tesla's website and I did all of my shopping there. I avoided 3rd party sites. Around that time I was also linked up with a Tesla sales rep, Jonathan. He told me about EV-CPO and texted me the link and told me about how I could go about narrowing options etc. I basically lived on the site for next two and a half months.

Since I was buying used, I knew there were at least two things that I HAD to have because I planned to keep the car for at least 5-7 years and I did NOT want it to be basically "phased out" of future updates: HW no less than 2.0; and either FSD or EAP. At that time I couldn't get a really clear answer on the difference between EAP and FSD, but it seemed to me that FSD was ONLY possible on cars with the new more advanced array of cameras and so that became the cutoff - the car had to be FSD. (I'm still not sure if this is actually the case, but that's what I thought at the time, so that's what I went with.). It was all about future proofing.

Also, at the time I didn't know squat about MCU differences, so that was not a factor. I sort of wish I had known, but that's on me for not learning. Anyways, aside from FSD (which ensured cameras, HW, and AP versions) I had some other options I really wanted and proceeded from there. Signed up with EV-CPO, set up my configurations, and started getting the regular updates and emails. I QUICKLY learned how fast these things sold because I missed basically ALL of the cars I wanted.

Then, December 17, 2019 I found one that almost exactly fit the bill (it was blue instead of silver or gray). I could live with blue so I paid my $100. The next day, the 18th, I emailed my sales rep Jonathan and arranged a call to ask him about the process going forward, the timeline, shipping, and to clarify the FSD Capability question. We got everything cleared up except Capability. He told me that it was something he would have to confirm because it wasn't like he just had that info on hand. We then lost contact while I waited for the car to ship. Delivery was delayed for some reason and then we texted again on December 23rd and at that point I was handed off to a different sales person, a female whose name I can't recall. I still didn't have an answer on FSD Capability.

I took delivery in Atlanta on December 28, 2019. Car parked out front, looked gorgeous, I was excited, and the (super nice) tech walked me and my wife through some of the details before leaving us to just play around with different features (which he said was the best way to come up with questions we might have). Before he left us alone though I definitely remember asking him specifically about Autopilot, how to engage, what it had, etc, and specifically whether this vehicle was indeed FSD. That had been a deal breaker for me from the beginning. I was in the vehicle as he went through the options and he absolutely looked at the features and exclaimed that oh yeah!, it does have FSD and told me all about summon and lane changing and how to work nav on autopilot (which I then used driving the 2 hours back home).

They also set me up at that time on the Tesla app. The tech said it could take some time for it to get set up, but within 30 minutes I was connected and everything seemed fine. It wasn't until maybe a week or two later that I even noticed that FSD was still showing as an available option in the app (for $4,000). I knew I already had FSD so I thought it was odd, but didn't think anything of it because, well, I had it. I used summon on occasion, I used Nav on Autopilot a lot, it all worked.

Then just this past week I learned about the free HW3.0 upgrade for FSD cars (from a March 2020 article from Inside EVs). I went into my app to schedule the upgrade first and then watched the video. It was only then that I learned about the potential differences between EAP and FSD and the possibility that my car may not have actually ever had FSD "activated". I checked my HW version in my car, checked again all the autopilot options (to see if anything was grayed out...they weren't) and then logged onto my Tesla support page on the tesla website. That was the first time that I ever noticed that Enhanced Autopilot was listed and NOT Full Self Driving.

I then got on here and started asking questions. I posted pictures of the "window sticker" in an earlier message showing that the only way it was ever advertised to me was "Full Self Driving Capability".

If there are others details, I'm happy to provide them. From what I can gather reading replies, this isn't necessarily something that Tesla intentionally misled me on - it sounds like perhaps all of the sales reps and the tech were equally as confused. What I'm concerned about now is that I actually AM going to have to pay $4,000 for something that I thought I've had all along and that was very specifically a deal breaker from the very beginning. I must have looked at 80 or so cars before buying this one, so it's not like I just got the first one that came up. I'll keep this updated as I try to get in touch with Tesla today.
 

Battpower

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Get back in touch with Jonathan asap imo. Don't lose sight that you have a great car with EPA whatever, but also imo a pretty good case if you can get your Tesla sales guys on your side to get a genuine 'mistake' fixed in your favour.

Just forget everything except 'Full Self Driving Capability' on your paperwork and that this was verified by your handover agent when you collected the car.

I'm sure there will be different opinions, but I was so much exactly in your buying cycle at the same time and having much the same experience. The only difference for me was that two CPO cars fell through but gave me chance to decide to stretch my budget into their new car system (including demonstrator cars) that gave me a bit better clarity in the documentation.

It will be a drag to not end up with what you genuinely and reasonably believed you were buying, and that should be enough for Tesla to do the right thing and sort it out. But Tesla doesn't (or can't) always do that, and to fight them over it would likely come down to pointless debate over what words mean what, then and now.
 
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