Once Tesla has changed, I will happily buy a Tesla and post all my positive feelings about it.
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Tesla attacks heating up
- Thread starter Henchman
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Once Tesla has changed, I will happily buy a Tesla and post all my positive feelings about it.
The title of this thread is "Tesla attacks heating up." The OP is about attacks on Tesla in the press, but repeatedly referring to Elon Musk as "Elon Madoff" ....
.... and at the same time claiming on at least three separate occasions to have cancelled a Model 3 reservation -- the two I cited plus another thread you created about cancelling your reservation again that was so obviously false TMC deleted the entire thread -- seems to me to be another version of the sort of attack the OP is talking about.
Tesla faces a lot of opposition from vested interests of various types (oil, legacy auto, short sellers, etc.). Some of that shows up via the press and a ton of it shows up on social media.
Only someone vested in Tesla would do this much research. 2 Model 3’s and 2 Model S’s cancelled.
I’ll post all my reservation confirmations and my emails requesting refunds from Tesla.....EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Can you prove you don’t work for Tesla or have vested interest in Tesla?
Again all you are using is attacking the man fallacy rather than addressing whether the attacks on Tesla/Musk have some merit.
Yes you can scoff at the Madoff comment, but a few weeks ago people laughed at the Trump/Mush parallels, and now that’s commonly covered in the media.
Everyone that paid for self driving, might feel like Tesla is a little like Madoff.
"Elon Madoff is making off with our deposits." Slander on top of slander.
Until Tesla delivers a $35k M3, they have made off with the deposits. Slander? Schmander!
Here is another issue. I partially sold my Model S 70 based on the promise that AP 2.0 would be so much better. It might be better now. The tall tales of Tesla/Elon are used to make real decisions and then we are left with results we didn’t expect.
I really wanted the S with all the cameras, etc. I wanted that upgrade, only to find out it wasn’t even an upgrade for a long time if at all.
Tesla/Musk have built incredible cars, but this over promising and tall tales, are too much. Go sustainable energy, but with way less over promising, drama and tall tales.
New management(and stable executive suite) and a reigned in Musk would give me the confidence to try Tesla again.
See I’m not anti-Tesla, I’m anti what Tesla is messing up.
I really wanted the S with all the cameras, etc. I wanted that upgrade, only to find out it wasn’t even an upgrade for a long time if at all.
Tesla/Musk have built incredible cars, but this over promising and tall tales, are too much. Go sustainable energy, but with way less over promising, drama and tall tales.
New management(and stable executive suite) and a reigned in Musk would give me the confidence to try Tesla again.
See I’m not anti-Tesla, I’m anti what Tesla is messing up.
I understand more than a dozen manufacturers from Audi to Volvo now offer so-called ADAS options (Advanced Driver Assistance Systems) on their cars. (Warning, drivers: Your car can cruise on its own, but you're still responsible)
Yet we only seem to hear about the accidents involving Tesla's. Are there any reported Accidents by other manufactures?
The bulk of the Tesla crashes are they older cars using the AP1 (First Generation Auto Pilot / Mobileye). Is Tesla's AP2 in house version better now or have they also been involved in crashes?
Yet we only seem to hear about the accidents involving Tesla's. Are there any reported Accidents by other manufactures?
The bulk of the Tesla crashes are they older cars using the AP1 (First Generation Auto Pilot / Mobileye). Is Tesla's AP2 in house version better now or have they also been involved in crashes?
Umm, sure .... Because being six months late on the Model 3 SR, with deposits refundable on request, is just like Madoff's massive Ponzi scheme.
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Unless you can justify this remark, you've just lost all credibility...
Don't just disagree, @Pentium2004 , please explain why soon the other EV manufacturers will have not only caught up, but managed to pull so far ahead, that you are ing to wave as you pass us by at the supercharger.
-Will they have such ginormous packs they won't need to stop and charge?
-Are they somehow going to find batteries that accept a 6X C-rate (while maintaining competitive gravimetric, volumetric, & power densities as well as cycle lifetimes) such that you'll only need to stop for 10 minutes to charge?
-Will the magic 800-1000V charging stations (the 350kW ones) somehow defy physics and allow a pack configured for higher voltage somehow ignore the fact that implies a lower current limit for a given size?
Don't just sit there, thrill us!
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Welllll to be honest, they've done some sketchy accounting and been slapped for it.Umm, sure .... Because being six months late on the Model 3 SR, with deposits refundable on request, is just like Madoff's massive Ponzi scheme.
As far as the deposits go, they're being used to fund operations... yet they are liabilities.
"Sketchy" is not as bad as comparing to Madoff but still a bit much. The SEC had an effort underway to push companies to switch to GAAP reporting, including Tesla and other tech companies that liked to report certain non-GAAP figures, and as part of this effort in 2016 complained to Tesla about its reporting of non-GAAP figures. To my knowledge Tesla made the requested changes. There was no mystery about the non-GAAP measures and many people thought they better reflected the business but nonetheless Tesla complied with the SEC's request. As far as deposits, Tesla has been handling them the same way for years, and it is transparent about its accounting for deposits. Given the swarms of short sellers around Tesla for the past seven years if there were an actual issue with that there is no question the SEC would have been all over it by now.
.... Aaaand, back on topic ....
There is a nice article on reneweconomy.com.au summarizing why so many people (especially short sellers and ICE interests) are attacking Tesla. With Model 3 production taking off, the Australia big battery paying for itself in record time and helping the world wake up to the economic potential of storage (plus the Model Y and Semi in the wings), it is no wonder that the short sellers and ICE interests are running scared and increasing their attacks. I think the noise will continue to increase until the short sellers are wiped out and ICE interests are forced to join the EV transition or disappear.
Why so many people are so desperate for Tesla and Musk to fail
CapeOne
Active Member
I think any worries regarding Tesla at this point are largely premature as the BEV market is still extremely small. There is plenty of time for other players to come in, and many apparently plan to. Last year, Tesla sales only accounted for around 0.3% of all new vehicle sales in the U.S. Even if that number tripled this year, it would still be less than 1%.
"Dishonest" implies a deliberateness that I don't think exists. Hanlon's razor applies. I suspect that Elon genuinely believes that they can do the things that they promise, at the time that they promise them.
And, with the exception of FSD and arguably EA, he's largely delivered (late).
The AI fields that have made even partial self-driving possible lately had turned out to be more difficult to extend to more complex problems. It's not just a Tesla issue; nobody is winning the battle as yet. But, two years ago, it seems like things were closer.
Personally I think Tesla is going to have to give back the cash associated with FSD at some point. But I still attribute the issue to honest errors, and not malice.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Don't use the word 'promise' around here. That is his get out of jail free card.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
It depends on where you live and lifestyle, but home charging is often a luxury not a necessity. I own an EV with a range shy of 100 miles in good weather. I don't own a home charging point. Not because I can't get one or don't have my own driveway, but because I can charge for free at work or when out and about.
Lots of these negative attitudes surrounding EVs are just uninformed thoughts that do not conform with reality. I find the more people learn about what it's like to actually own and live with an EV, the more they like them. I have spoken with people on the street as I charge who have various questions and concerns. I swear I've converted quite a few to go EV for their next purchase.
Jaguar it appears will be making around 13,000 iPace units per annum eventually. So that's not exactly going to kill Tesla. They're not even competing directly with any current Tesla model. But at least it will raise more awareness of EVs to their conservative customer base.
VW already have a few EVs in the market and most of their dealers don't even want to sell them! They talk a big future EV game and yet keep releasing ever more new ICE cars, which is what their dealers really want to sell.
Porsche are not going big on EV anytime soon either. Mission E is just a halo car. I expect their real game plan is to churn out token gesture hybrids for the next decade. Hybrid ticks all the boxes for their customer base, so why wouldn't they?
Audi seems to be the VAG brand of choice for their future EVs. So the E-tron should be available in early 2019 with performance specs that look poor compared to a base Model X (now that they've quietly downgraded the power from the concept 500 hp to more like 320 hp on the production version). They won't discuss production numbers, but indicated "double digit thousands" in whatever timescale. Again doesn't sound much of a Tesla killer. Might scalp a few Model X sales, but will probably be bought by people who wouldn't have considered a Tesla anyway. Again it will raise awareness of EVs to the "German" car fans, who in general don't even want them!
BMW - after a good start with the i3, they seem to have completely given up? Now muttering about modular platforms so they can support whatever power tech prevails i.e. BEV, Hybrid, ICE. So they're basically sitting on the fence. Expect a bodged up iX3 with a mixture of "engines" in the next couple of years.
Nissan - Struggling to move beyond the Leaf? Snails pace EV development.
Volvo - They do actually seem quite committed to an EV future, but it's not exactly here and now. Their current hybrid offerings are pretty lame.
Anyway that's my 2p worth on a few of the Tesla killers. All they really want to kill is the BEV itself so they can pretend it was all a bad dream for another couple of decades. At least Tesla is properly committed to the BEV cause and it really shows in their products.
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