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Tesla bans Stewart Alsop from buying Model X

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So why don't the trash talkers use their powers of words to get people interested in those more pressing issues?

In this case, Alsop may think that he's done a public service by:

1) giving feedback (in this case: trashing the execution of the Launch Event,)

2) praising Model X

3) offering advice.

His blogs have some valid points for those who have never attended a Tesla event:

. Expect lots of waiting.
. Expect lots of people.
. Bring your own dinner if you want a real dinner.


Why don't you?

. Criminology is a specialty that needs lots of training. As reported by 60 Minutes, some young college students turned drug informants with no appropriate training ended up dead.

. I do what I can in my own capacity as a private citizen.

. Tesla should look into how to integrate Tesla remote system to slow down or stop a Tesla car in a police pursuit (similar to GM OnStar) instead of cancelling an order of a disgruntled blogger.


My point is: People should have the right to post feedback in Yelps, blogs or internet... whether positive or negative with no retaliation from companies.

Since 2014, New California Law Bans Companies from Punishing Negative Online Reviewers
 
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In this case, Alsop may think that he's done a public service by:

1) giving feedback (in this case: trashing the execution of the Launch Event,)

2) praising Model X

3) offering advice.

His blogs have some valid points for those who have never attended a Tesla event:

. Expect lots of waiting.
. Expect lots of people.
. Bring your own dinner if you want a real dinner.

No one disagrees that he has made valid points, the way he has done it is what's in question. Also, can we stop bringing up the 4 month old blog post, as though it led directly to his recent banning?

Surely you can understand the difference between posting feedback in a respectful, tactful, manner, and not.
 
My point is: People should have the right to post feedback in Yelps, blogs whether positive or negative with no retaliation from companies.

And people do post plenty of criticism online, without consequences, whether they're grandstanding or not. So that leads most of us to believe that the phone call didn't go so well. And he's not talking about what happened on the phone call.

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And that has nothing to do with this discussion. Read it.
The so-called “Yelp Bill”, believed to be the first of its kind in the nation, makes it unlawful in California for a company to insert a provision into a consumer contract that waives the right to make “any statement” about the goods or services purchased. And the statute makes it illegal to try to enforce such a provision or otherwise penalize a consumer for a review. It wouldn’t, though, stop a company from bringing a defamation lawsuit accusing a consumer of lying about its product.
 
All most of the general public knows is what they hear or read in the news. Somebody criticizes Tesla, and Musk refuses to sell a car to that person. The message is that if you want one of their cars, you better not be critical of it. That's the way it will come across. When I defend Tesla, I shouldn't be surprised if people counter with "of course you say that or they will take your car back."

I frankly don't care what was said in the phone conversation. Customers have the right to be upset and everything in the initial post about the way the event was organized, how it was late, how reservation holders didn't even get a chance to see the car was all accurate. And it wan't Tesla's shining moment as a marketing organization. Musk may be brilliant, but his eloquence is more "charming" than slippery. Regardless, I can see Musk refusing to take the guy's phone calls, but that's about it.

What message is Tesla sending? I better not do whatever the person did in the phone call? It can't be that because nobody in the general public knows what that is. Should I stop criticizing the company? I'm a very strong supporter of the company and the car, and a very satisfied owner, but there's still a lot to criticize in what Musk's own kid called "the stupidest car in the world." Did Musk disown his son or take it personally? Should business decisions be dictated by five year olds? Can I criticize my own car for things it does poorly?

Since the time I bought my car, I've read a world of criticism from people who have no clue. They criticize the car for all the wrong things based on misconceptions about range, about charging, about daily use, about people running out of power in the middle of the freeway without noticing, and all sorts of nonsense. So it would seem that Tesla owners are fanboys who do nothing but defend the car. But if people had criticized the lack of lines in the rear view camera display (which were more or less standard on other vehicles) or the lack of display of tire pressures (which I had assumed was standard in this day and age) or the lack of ACC at the time I ordered my car, or the way Homelink works (now partially remedied) or the inability to tie a fob to a profile as I could with a fully equipped minivan from the last century, then I would have agreed that Tesla did leave off many features that were absolutely expected and some of them make it a pain to use the car on a day to day basis.

So should I shut up, lest Musk punish me? Tesla is already gaining a reputation for acting as if they still own our cars after we buy them. They used to tell people that they had to sign up for annual service even though it wasn't legal to require it. They are telling people that they may not honor parts of the warranty if people make aftermarket changes as simple as using different tires. They want to impose all sorts of requirements on owners that no other company would do. And now they want to give the general public the impression that only fanboys need apply and nobody else is welcome to buy the car.

Anybody who has been high up in the business world is familiar with the expression "it's a business decision" and knows not to take things personally. If Musk cancels an active order (yes, the fine print says either party has the right to cancel a reservation) because he doesn't like criticism that the general public is likely to see as restrained and warranted, that's not a very good business decision. Musk will end up looking like Donald Trump. There's nothing in that person's public statements that he needs to apologize for, and it's downright silly for Musk to refuse to sell him a car. If somebody sells him a used one, will Tesla refuse to allow it to communicate with their network?

+100 I totally agree.

In the forums, people love to talk about how Elon Musk invites criticism in order to improve the product. He has said so, apparently. So it seems really odd to me that he would purposely not sell a car to someone over criticism. Elon surely can't have such a thin skin. However... Elon does tend to act emotionally and can lash out when things are not going well at Tesla. He did so during one of their quarterly calls about a year or so ago, very unprofessional and amateur, and you could tell he was under a lot of stress.

I suspect Elon's overreaction here has more to do with his emotional state and what is happening inside Tesla than anything Alsop may have said or done. I happen to think there may be serious issues inside of Tesla itself that Elon is letting bubble to the surface. The Model X launch was a fiasco by any measure, at least if you have any standards for such events. I'm not even talking about making people wait, I'm talking about the rest of the event which felt like it was put together by a bunch of amateurs. Elon's battery swap and D event presentations were much better handled. You'd think Tesla would have put extra time and effort into the planning of the Model X launch considering how important that car is to the company's near-term future.

Elon acted like a child. Oops, now I'm probably going to get banned by Iron Man!

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Musk could have sent a tweet: "Sorry you didn't like the event, I'm sure you'll like your Tesla all the more" or something like that. Done. End of story. Now he looks vindictive and petty instead. If he isn't good at doing this, then he should hire someone to do it for him.

You mean like Ricardo Reyes, head of communications at Tesla? Tesla hired him over a year ago. Have you noticed an improvement or a degradation in Tesla's communications in the past year?
 
Oops, now I'm probably going to get banned by Iron Man!

Well, you haven't yet. And you've been plenty critical at times of Elon (esp in regards to what you believed happened with Jerome) and the company in general.

That's what's bothering me with some of these posts (not meaning to single you out, AR, but a good example). Obviously there has been a ton of public criticism without repercussions.

So I suspect it has to do with a phone call and no progress being made, ending with 'it's best we end this relationship'.
 
So, you're recommending that the "media" be treated differently than other customers? Companies fire problem customers all the time, the difference is that customers don't usually go whining to the world about it.

You're listening to only one side of the issue, the side that is clearly a self-entitled schmuck, and deciding that Tesla should have handled it differently?

In my 8 years as a Realtor I've only fired two clients, and it did not give me any pleasure to do so. I go out of my way to make even the most difficult and demanding people happy, that's just what you do if you are customer oriented and want to maintain a good reputation out there. This feels petty by almost any standard.

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So let me get this straight, you have no idea what was said on the call but you feel as if you have enough information to decide to see Elon in a different light? What kind of logic is that?

Jeff

What happened during the phone conversation is completely and totally irrelevant. What matters is what Elon did publicly and how his actions are being perceived. You're a CEO of a multi-billion dollar automotive startup and you basically cancel someone's order over a difference of opinion and a rude phone interaction? Seems really petty.
 
In my 8 years as a Realtor I've only fired two clients, and it did not give me any pleasure to do so. I go out of my way to make even the most difficult and demanding people happy, that's just what you do if you are customer oriented and want to maintain a good reputation out there. This feels petty by almost any standard.

And if your fired clients wrote online reviews the public would have no idea the lengths you went to to try and make the client happy. Yet, you take the clients side here.

Do you see how this doesn't make a lick of sense?
 
Bet Alsop would have had an aneurysm if he went to a ball game and it called due to rain. He must a true joy at the airport or the DMV.

Elon's target audience is very demanding, wealthy people. This shouldn't be a shock. People with the kind of money to buy a Model S can be demanding and high maintenance.

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Well, you haven't yet. And you've been plenty critical at times of Elon (esp in regards to what you believed happened with Jerome) and the company in general.

That's what's bothering me with some of these posts (not meaning to single you out, AR, but a good example). Obviously there has been a ton of public criticism without repercussions.

So I suspect it has to do with a phone call and no progress being made, ending with 'it's best we end this relationship'.

I am in general agreement with the reasoning, but I'm looking at the external optics of this that don't really look good. I've been critical of Tesla's recent moves, yes, and I haven't been the only one. I'm nobody to Musk and so why should he bother with gnats. I dumped all of my TSLA stock today because I can't take any more losses and the company doesn't appear to be going in a positive direction. Elon seems to act inappropriately when he is playing defense. Witness some of his quarterly earnings calls when there is bad news and lots of pressure - he says inappropriate things.

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And if your fired clients wrote online reviews the public would have no idea the lengths you went to to try and make the client happy. Yet, you take the clients side here.

Do you see how this doesn't make a lick of sense?

I'm not the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and with all of the visibility that entails. If the two clients that I fired tweeted about it, nobody would notice or care. But when you're a billionaire CEO doing this, there's a bit of a magnifying glass on you at all times. I think this action sends a negative message out there. Like I said to Bonnie, I'm not taking sides - I'm just looking at the optics of the situation which are not flattering.

I don't remember reading about the last time Tim Cook or Mary Barra threw a public tantrum and canceled someone's order. I'm pretty sure when you're a CEO at that level, you get a lot of crap thrown at you and need to learn to let it roll off your back. When at that level you also need to have your wits about you and should understand that everything you do reflects upon your organization, its employees, and your products.
 
I'm not the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and with all of the visibility that entails. If the two clients that I fired tweeted about it, nobody would notice or care. But when you're a billionaire CEO doing this, there's a bit of a magnifying glass on you at all times. I think this action sends a negative message out there. Like I said to Bonnie, I'm not taking sides - I'm just looking at the optics of the situation which are not flattering.

I don't remember reading about the last time Tim Cook or Mary Barra threw a public tantrum and canceled someone's order. I'm pretty sure when you're a CEO at that level, you get a lot of crap thrown at you and need to learn to let it roll off your back.

When did Elon throw a public tantrum? I only saw Alsop doing so... Again, you're saying we should believe the word of your fired client here.

Next, there obviously comes a point where the client is more trouble than they're worth. You've apparently reached that point, and so has Elon. You are absolutely taking sides when you create a double standard. It's okay for you to do whatever you want, but not someone else.
 
Elon's target audience is very demanding, wealthy people. This shouldn't be a shock.
I completely disagree. There are many many people who have bought Teslas who do not consider themselves either "wealthy" or "very demanding" (including me) and who spent far more on the car then they ever had because it was so compelling. In any case, since Tesla does no conventional marketing, the concept of a Tesla "target audience" is irrelevant. Tesla has a goal, embodied in its mission statement (which I realize you know so I won't quote it) and to reach that goal decided to make the best possible car it could. The car was not targeted at a specific market segment. As it happened, it exceeded early sales expectations and ended up attracting a broad range of buyers. Are they above average in income? Obviously? But they are not necessarily "wealthy" (when placed in context with their fellow citizens) and they are certainly not all "very demanding".
I am in general agreement with the reasoning, but I'm looking at the external optics of this that don't really look good. I've been critical of Tesla's recent moves, yes, and I haven't been the only one. I'm nobody to Musk and so why should he bother with gnats. I dumped all of my TSLA stock today because I can't take any more losses and the company doesn't appear to be going in a positive direction
As a TSLA shareholder who just significantly increased his stock holdings a few days ago because it's clear to me that the company is in fact doing well and has huge potential, I'm fine with the "optics". It's a tempest in a teacup that won't hurt the company. Refuse to sell to a handful of obnoxious intemperate individuals? I have no problem with that.
 
One more thought on who can choose, or fire, whom in this business relationship between companies and their customers. Customers have all the advantages of being able to choose any company to do business with and fire anyone they don't like while, except for a few rare cases, companies pretty much accept anyone who's able to pay for their products or services. Some people seem to be shocked to hear a company can refuse to do business with certain customers but they forgot we custmers are doing this all the time. There is nothing so shocking except, as Elon said, in a slow news day.

All these lead me to think that Tesla might even want to make the brand a little more exclusive by screening out a few who really don't deserve to own the car. It might forgo a few sales but this will only reinforce the idea that it's a privilege to own the car and create an even more desirable brand image. OK don't flame me it's just a thought, and what are you to worry about?
 
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You mean like Ricardo Reyes, head of communications at Tesla? Tesla hired him over a year ago. Have you noticed an improvement or a degradation in Tesla's communications in the past year?

I don't know if this is a rhetorical or a genuine question. I don't watch Tesla that closely to offer an opinion on the development of their PR. However, I do know how difficult it can be to do such a job under a towering, autocratic CEO. If he doesn't let Reyes do his job and ignores his advice, then he might just as well saved the money spent to hire him.
 
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(Ref. CarlK #250)
I think that's a valid question but for me the easy and obvious answer is that your idea is utterly antithetical to Tesla Motors's avowed corporate goal, which is to lead the world to full EV-ness.


Note well: this answer is coming from someone who has been fully supportive of Mr Musk's actions solely because I am disgusted at what the social-media-type sites like Twitter do to public behavior and societal norms - publicly writing "You should be ashamed of yourself" is all it took for me to place Mr Alsop in the wrong. I don't need any knowledge of what occurred in any subsequent phone calls.
 
That is really odd that a car maker would select it's buyers. Wait. I think Tesla is a bit late to the game:

Peering behind the curtain of Ferraris exclusive selection process

IIRC, when Top Gear wanted to pit a Ferrari LaFerrari against a McLaren P1, and Porsche 918, Ferrari thought the track selected was unfair. They notified the 499 owners that if they wanted another Ferrari in the future, they were not to lend out the car to anyone without permission until it was settled? But Porsche or McLaren could have said the same if it wasn't Ferrari.

BTW - Those are exclusive models for the Wealthy. I can guarantee the potential buyers are not rude to the factory during the ordering process.
 
(Ref. CarlK #250)
because I am disgusted at what the social-media-type sites like Twitter do to public behavior and societal norms - publicly writing "You should be ashamed of yourself" is all it took for me to place Mr Alsop in the wrong. I don't need any knowledge of what occurred in any subsequent phone calls.

Why is that? The host shows up an hour late for a very public event and doesn't have the good manners to apologize for the delay, yet he shouldn't be called out for his behaviour?
 
+100 I totally agree.
The Model X launch was a fiasco by any measure, at least if you have any standards for such events. I'm not even talking about making people wait, I'm talking about the rest of the event which felt like it was put together by a bunch of amateurs.
/QUOTE]

True, plus what I saw that night of the features, or lack thereof, convinced me to sell my stock. The lack of communication since then, Ricardo Reyes or not, has done nothing to make me regret my decision. My point is that some people do make decisions based somewhat on how a company presents itself to the public and this crazy situation with Alsop just seems un-befitting a CEO.
 
That is really odd that a car maker would select it's buyers. Wait. I think Tesla is a bit late to the game:

Peering behind the curtain of Ferraris exclusive selection process

IIRC, when Top Gear wanted to pit a Ferrari LaFerrari against a McLaren P1, and Porsche 918, Ferrari thought the track selected was unfair. They notified the 499 owners that if they wanted another Ferrari in the future, they were not to lend out the car to anyone without permission until it was settled? But Porsche or McLaren could have said the same if it wasn't Ferrari.

BTW - Those are exclusive models for the Wealthy. I can guarantee the potential buyers are not rude to the factory during the ordering process.

Tesla really should not try to emulate Ferrari. Tesla wants to become a brand for the masses. Ferrari wants to be exclusive. Tesla is currently somewhat exclusive because of their high prices, but Model 3 is supposed to change all that.

That's not to say the Alsop case is evidence of Tesla going in this direction. I'm just saying Ferrari has no relevance to this discussion.
 
In today's luxury market a $125k car is midrange. That's what one my Chevys listed at, technically corrected for inflation $136k. The new Cadillac CTS-V sedan is about $100k nicely equipped, and considered a bargain in the segment.
 
Why is that? The host shows up an hour late for a very public event and doesn't have the good manners to apologize for the delay, yet he shouldn't be called out for his behaviour?
Oh, brother....

OK:
1. Read every single post in this thread.
2. Pay especial attention to my posts. ===>NOT because my opinion counts any more than anyone else's, but to understand my position.<====
3. Make up your own mind as to what is and is not appropriate behavior in different venues. No one is going to close down this thread, but it absolutely has covered every possible angle over who should and should not have done and not done what to whom, where, when, why and how.