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Tesla Battery Investor Day

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Buckminster, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. ZeApelido

    ZeApelido Active Member

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    Yeah I thought the main problem always was you could charge a battery at a higher C rate, but the heat would damage the battery.

    If my assumptions are correct :

    Heat is proportional to current squared and resistance linearly. If you halve the resistance, current could go up 40% with same heating.

    If you reduced resistance 9x, current could go up 300%. That's 3x faster recharging, like 0 to 80% in 6 minutes...
     
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  2. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Active Member

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    Perhaps, but I can't see foil substrates playing a big role here. The active materials are always the issue. That's why Tesla tapers so aggressively. It's the active materials that change properties as SOC increases, the foils couldn't care less. If foil heat was the limiting factor you could Supercharge at 250 kW for a few minutes whether your starting SOC was 10% or 70%.

    Also, if foil heat were the limiting factor, why pre-heat the battery before Supercharging? That would only make the problem worse. Again, it's all about the active materials, which need high temperature for fastest ion transport.
     
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  3. transpondster

    transpondster Member

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    anyone care to check my numbers: Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online, for free.
    I calculate high internal resistance power loss at high power


    Resistivity at 20 C (nΩ m) 26,50
    Temperature coefficient 0,00390
    Temperature (Celsius) 40,00
    Resistivity (nΩ m) 28,57
    Thickness (um) 16,00
    Width (mm) 64,00
    Current (A) 15
    Length (cm) 84
    Resistence of 1 cm (did u expected integrals?...) 0,000279


    Total resistive power (W): 1,789049225

    of course I don't know thickness of foil in Tesla's cells, but if there are no mistakes in my numbers resistive loses just in foil are high at high power and no way in hell they would be able to make bigger cylindrical cells
     
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  4. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    From main thread:
     
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  5. mrbulk

    mrbulk Member

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    I read the article. One of several about this already actually. And I am happy and excited about this since I still have an S on lease until next year and then a CT on order. Hopefully this batt tech will be in all new Tesla's (and not just China) by then.

    My only concern though - might this not create an Osbourne Effect for Tesla? Anyone contemplating a/nother Tesla yet not pressed to pull the trigger for some urgent reason at the time, would most certainly wait for additional news about this development.
     
  6. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    My hunch the new battery is only initially available in higher priced Plaid Model S/X, then Cybertruck form day 1.
    IN other cars they will try to keep any upgrade secret until it is in production..
    Constantly improving products and making the best products is more important than worrying about the Osbourne Effect, it may happen occasionally, but it is hard to totally avoid.
     
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  7. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    https://twitter.com/carsonight/status/1270722153898315795

    I posted this tweet because it raises an interesting question:-

    "Will Tesla Roadrunner packs need fewer working per kWh of pack production?"

    It is an interesting question because "Yes" is the likely answer and a smaller workforce per kWh of production would be a significant saving..

    Why I'm optimistic is the Semi packs will be product at GF Nevada, Tesla would not do that if getting sufficient battery line workers was an issue..
     
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  8. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Delayed to 15th September most likely. Will be held in Fremont and include a tour of the battery manufacturing line.
     
  9. mrbulk

    mrbulk Member

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    I just hope this does not suppress sales to those still on the fence...for myself not a huge problem as my CT will not be built until long after that and I have the S to drive meanwhile.
     
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  10. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    Tesla can announce that the new batteries are going into some vehicles, Plaid Model S and Semi and make Plaid Model S available to order. Very likely that Plaid Model S costs more than a regular Model S...

    That would stop some of the speculation, if Tesla was able to do it..

    My guess is so far order rates are still good, the speculation is unlikely to have a major impact on Q3 sales.
    As per Q2, China is picking up some of the slack...
     
  11. mrbulk

    mrbulk Member

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  12. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I think the hackers would find out that information ahead of time if Tesla were hiding excess capacity. If battery day is nothing more than increased longevity that would be a major fail. I expect whatever is announced to show up in future vehicles, maybe Plaid S first.
     
  13. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    It is worth linking the Roadrunner project which we discussed in the main thread yesterday:-
    Tesla reveals more on status of Roadrunner secret project for battery production - Electrek

    Most probably these cells are going into Plaid Model S... perhaps all Model S/X, perhaps even some Model Y..

    This ties in with the re-openning of the South paint shop and possibly GA5:-
    Application 30204: Fremont South Paint Shop Modification Project (PDF) : teslamotors

    So my expectation is:-
    • More longevity
    • Higher margins
    • Higher production volumes.
    • Quicker scaling of additional capacity with lower capex, a much smaller footprint and lower energy consumption...
    That is a high bar, but it has to be "mind blowing"

    I think conventional 2170 may get chemistry improvements more more longevity...

    Roadrunner cells are more likely in the higher end high margin cars, 2170 cells are more likely in the base models.
     
  14. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Still cobalt based cells and only an application for construction approval. I don't find it likely that any cells from this would make it into products this year.
     
  15. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    The pilot line and R&D is a separate facility..

    I don't think they need 400 workers, 4 x 100 per shift and 24 x 7 operation and 38 trucks per day, if they are merely testing a pilot line.

    The construction approval was lodged in March with a 3 month long project,

    Perhaps they start in Mid-April and construction is complete by the end of July..or earlier.
     
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  16. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    #96 MC3OZ, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
    Will Tesla get into mining and chemical processing?
    After watching all of the videos below this seems like a possibility.

    And announcing they are doing it is possibly more important than doing it, miners and processors need firm orders to justify investment in projects that will be up and running in 5-7 years time..
    A stable market with long term contracts at reasonable prices benefits everyone, to get that battery makers and car makers need to commit.





     
  17. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    From the main thread:
    This was in response to "what happens when all the Lithium has been used up". Suggests Tesla will either:
    1. Reduce amount of Li per battery
    2. Get into mining
    3. Extract Li from the sea
    2.5 months to find out.
     
  18. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    If all the lithium is used up, it's time for a new planet...
    Lithium - Wikipedia
     
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  19. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    I'm expecting Battery Day will include some information on how Tesla will source raw materials for battery production*, and probably also information on recycling..

    * This may include getting into mining..
     
  20. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    Interesting video, but I've never seen conclusive proof that Tesla did acquire SilIon.

    Not long to wait folks... :)
     

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