Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[MXLRplus]

Mach-e will have a Super Cruise equivalent. Meant for mapped highway use.

I am almost certain over the air updates will me for minor updates and major updates you will need to go to the dealer. Like every other legacy OEM.

Unless Ford is licensing the GM system/database, it is unlikely to have an equivalent to Super Cruise. They are years behind GM in auto digital electronics Look no further than their PHEV and EV efforts if in doubt. It will probably have an Jaguar style system or Tesla AP style.

(Super Cruise is currently nerfed, more of the function will be released in the Chevy Bolt and Cads)

 

[MXLRplus]

The 2021 Jaguar I-Pace 3BEV (triple battery EV) is getting a refresh. 11 kW charging said to be 3ph but I have my doubts, a digital rearview and 360° view are now standard, a better CPU running the infotainment from Battery 3 will boot quicker, and it will estimate the charging costs of the CCS sites on the map when you tell it to find juice.

Curiously, even though the car was given a range boost in fall 2019, they are still not filing it with the EPA.

 

[Watts_Up]

How much do we know about the coming BMW i4 (Availability, Performance, Price...)

 

[Saghost]

Unless Ford is licensing the GM system/database, it is unlikely to have an equivalent to Super Cruise. They are years behind GM in auto digital electronics Look no further than their PHEV and EV efforts if in doubt. It will probably have an Jaguar style system or Tesla AP style.

(Super Cruise is currently nerfed, more of the function will be released in the Chevy Bolt and Cads)

Supercruise is Mobileye based, right?

Not positive what technology Ford is using, but they appear to have a Supercruise type strategy planned - they are promising hands free driving on specific pre-approved and geotagged sections of road - I think I saw something about 100,000 miles of it in one posting.

 

[RobStark]

Ford dealers are marking up Mustang Mach-E by as much as $15,000 - Electrek

I guess Mace-E is not suffering from lack of demand.

 

[MP3Mike]

Ford dealers are marking up Mustang Mach-E by as much as $15,000 - Electrek

I guess Mace-E is not suffering from lack of demand.

Well just because they are asking inflated prices doesn't mean someone will pay it. Let's see how much they sell for once Ford starts actually making them.

 

[RobStark]

Well just because they are asking inflated prices doesn't mean someone will pay it. Let's see how much they sell for once Ford starts actually making them.

It means more people are willing to pay MSRP than there are cars available.

Econ 101

 

[MP3Mike]

It means more people are willing to pay MSRP than there are cars available.

Econ 101

Nobody has bought one yet, so we don't know if they are willing to yet or not.

 

[RobStark]

Nobody has bought one yet, so we don't know if they are willing to yet or not.

In the same way we don't know if there is any demand for Cybertruck.

 

[mongo]

In the same way we don't know if there is any demand for Cybertruck.

Incorrect, I know a lot more about the existence of demand for Cybertruck,

 

[wdolson]

At this moment it appears that the initial demand for the Mustang E-Mach is higher than initial production. However as the car nears production and more is known about it, many people might cancel their pre-orders, or most of the pre-orders may take delivery. A lot depends on whether people feel Ford delivered on promises or not.

 

[RobStark]

At this moment it appears that the initial demand for the Mustang E-Mach is higher than initial production. However as the car nears production and more is known about it, many people might cancel their pre-orders, or most of the pre-orders may take delivery. A lot depends on whether people feel Ford delivered on promises or not.

Same can be said about Cybertruck.

People made $500 reservations for Mach-E while they made $100 reservations on Cybertruck.

We also know people are calling Ford dealers wanting to sign purchase contracts.

And many Ford dealers are asking $5k-$15k over MSRP because the demand exceeds their allotment.

 

[wdolson]

Same can be said about Cybertruck.

People made $500 reservations for Mach-E while they made $100 reservations on Cybertruck.

We also know people are calling Ford dealers wanting to sign purchase contracts.

And many Ford dealers are asking $5k-$15k over MSRP because the demand exceeds their allotment.

Tesla has always had some attrition between pre-order reservations and production. I expect most of the reservations for the Mach-E will be taken unless the early reviews indicate something wrong that would turn off buyers.

Ford was once in the lead among American car makers in the electrification game. They had several hybrids about 10 years ago, but they failed to move forward and actually slipped backwards dropping some of the hybrids from their lineup. They are in a position now where they need to move the needle.

The Mustang is the only car left that sells, which is why they chose to give an all new car the Mustang name. They are top of the heap with pickups, but that could change in a few years. The BEV F-150 is probably more critical to their future than the E-Mach. By the time the electric F-150 is available the Cybertruck may already be out there and the Cybertruck will almost certainly be cheaper with a longer range. Tesla gets their batteries at the lowest cost in the industry and Tesla is the industry leader for getting range out of a battery pack. The Cybertruck will probably be no exception, it's much more aerodynamic than a typical pickup and Tesla is just better at efficiency. Add on top of that Tesla's trucks will be taking advantage of supercharging and Ford is going to have some competition. The F-150 will get the brand loyalists, but those who look at the specifications will likely go with Tesla unless they can't stand the styling. My neighbor plans to trade in his F-150 for a Cybertruck about a year after they come out.

As an aside I noticed the Lordstown site mentioned that their truck will be supercharger capable. I guess they are taking Elon's offer and buying into the supercharger network. And I guess my info on Lordstown was wrong. The article I read said they were a division of Workhorse.

 

[MXLRplus]

Conventional auto dealers are significantly different than Tesla in regards to new models.
Dealers get an allocation based on their prior performance and volume.
Dealers pick out cars before customers. Dealers first, customers second.
An example would be the 2020 Corvette. Very few customers were able to pick a car built to their wants. You had to choose from the dealer's idea of a dream build. Then they marked them up, especially dealers who only received 1 or 2 allocations.

Tesla uses a random number generator, and has about 5% of the options found on modern cars. The Corvette has 115 individual options. The Model 3P has 6. Even if you need to settle for inventory, you are likely to find your "dream build" in stock.

Punchline - If the dealer picks the wrong colors and options, those cars will eventually be discounted if they can't find a buyer. Lots of times dealers have initially jacked up the price only to find there was no demand. The dealers themselves create initial demand, not buyers.

 

[Doggydogworld]

And I guess my info on Lordstown was wrong. The article I read said they were a division of Workhorse.

Workhorse owns 10% of Lordstown and gets a royalty on each unit sold. I don't know who owns the other 90%.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla has always had some attrition between pre-order reservations and production. I expect most of the reservations for the Mach-E will be taken unless the early reviews indicate something wrong that would turn off buyers.

Ford was once in the lead among American car makers in the electrification game. They had several hybrids about 10 years ago, but they failed to move forward and actually slipped backwards dropping some of the hybrids from their lineup. They are in a position now where they need to move the needle.

Ford had an AWD Escape hybrid in the first and second generations. For the third generation they dropped the hybrid Escape and introduced the FWD only CMax Hybrid. With the 2016 oil price drops, they canceled the CMax, and again eventually brought back the Escape Hybrid (with AWD available) in the fourth generation, and this time added a FWD PHEV.

The reintroduction is of course driven by the tightening fuel efficiency standards in Europe.

The Mustang is the only car left that sells, which is why they chose to give an all new car the Mustang name.

I disagree. They used Mustang because it's their performance vehicle and the Mach-e will be quick to very quick.

 

[SmartElectric]

My neighbor plans to trade in his F-150 for a Cybertruck about a year after they come out

With 650,000 reservations he'll be well into 2024 before he gets one without putting in an order a long time ago... or he can buy on used market. I think there will be a strong demand/supply situation that will favor early reservation holders.

 

[alloverx]

Lets wait until we see the production version.

 

[MXLRplus]

...I think there will be a strong demand/supply situation that will favor early reservation holders.

So Tesla is going to try something entirely different from the Model 3 and Y releases?

 

[wdolson]

Workhorse owns 10% of Lordstown and gets a royalty on each unit sold. I don't know who owns the other 90%.

That was pointed out to me above and I was acknowledging it. I had seen an article that implied Workhorse owned a controlling interest in Lordstown.

Ford had an AWD Escape hybrid in the first and second generations. For the third generation they dropped the hybrid Escape and introduced the FWD only CMax Hybrid. With the 2016 oil price drops, they canceled the CMax, and again eventually brought back the Escape Hybrid (with AWD available) in the fourth generation, and this time added a FWD PHEV.

The reintroduction is of course driven by the tightening fuel efficiency standards in Europe.



I disagree. They used Mustang because it's their performance vehicle and the Mach-e will be quick to very quick.

Doug DeMuro thinks they called it the Mustang E-Mach because the Mustang is the only Ford car name left with recognition around the world

With 650,000 reservations he'll be well into 2024 before he gets one without putting in an order a long time ago... or he can buy on used market. I think there will be a strong demand/supply situation that will favor early reservation holders.

Tesla caught up with reservations fairly quickly with the Model 3. He doesn't want one of the first ones anyway, he wants to make sure the bugs are worked out first. Which I agree with. When I bought the Model X was just out and I didn't seriously consider it because the Model S was much more reliable at that point.