Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[wdolson]

The Polestar looks interesting. Do they have what it takes to be a competitor in todays marketplace?

Being owned by Geley from China and Volvo, they have a lot of automotive expertise. Geley is an EV maker, so they are almost certainly sharing tech with Polestar.

It's a good move for Geley. Chinese car makers are positioning themselves to eventually expand to markets outside China and owning a large stake in a European EV maker is a good way to make the move.

 

[RobStark]

Being owned by Geley from China and Volvo, they have a lot of automotive expertise. Geley is an EV maker, so they are almost certainly sharing tech with Polestar.

It's a good move for Geley. Chinese car makers are positioning themselves to eventually expand to markets outside China and owning a large stake in a European EV maker is a good way to make the move.

It is Geely not Geley.

Owning Western brands is good way for Chinese automotive companies to deceive Western consumers.

Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus still are positioning as niche brands. With Lotus as a boutique brand.

 

[wdolson]

It is Geely not Geley.

Owning Western brands is good way for Chinese automotive companies to deceive Western consumers.

Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus still are positioning as niche brands. With Lotus as a boutique brand.

I knew something was wrong with the spelling, but I was too lazy to look it up.

Volvo is the most mainstream of those brands, but I think the plan is for Polestar to take Volvo's place as EVs become more common.

 

[RobStark]

I knew something was wrong with the spelling, but I was too lazy to look it up.

Volvo is the most mainstream of those brands, but I think the plan is for Polestar to take Volvo's place as EVs become more common.

Geely CEO Sheng Yue Gui has said he wants Volvo to be a direct competitor to Mercedes and BMW. And Polestar to be an EV performance brand. A direct competitor to Tesla I guess.

Volvo used to be priced as a "step up brand" like Buick and Acura. Not a full on luxury brand competing directly with Mercedes and BMW.

AMG is a sub brand of Mercedes Benz

And BMW M(otorsports) Automobiles is a sub brand of BMW.

I don't know why Geely feels the need to establish a separate subsidiary and showrooms for Polestar. But service at Volvo dealers.

 

[RobStark]

Rivian R1T climbs Hells Gate

 

[mongo]

I don't know why Geely feels the need to establish a separate subsidiary and showrooms for Polestar. But service at Volvo dealers.

Doesn't that create separate 200k counters for
US EV tax credits under the current system?

 

[RobStark]

Doesn't that create separate 200k counters for
US EV tax credits under the current system?

It does but it shouldn't.

And they created this system worldwide not just for the US.

And it could change shortly.

 

[replicant]

Ferrari Hires Former Apple Designer Jony Ive Ahead of Electric Push

Jony Ive’s creative company reached a multiyear deal with the luxury sports car maker and its largest shareholder.

www.wsj.com

 

[JRP3]

Video showcases a number of useful features. Only thing I don't like is the location of the charge port, too vulnerable on the front of the fender.

 

[RobStark]

Interesting who Rivian invited to their event in Colorado.

They did not invite Car & Driver but did invite fellow Hearst Publication Road & Track

Not a lot of the traditional auto media. They did invite Kelly Blue Book which is owned by Cox Automotive. Which in turn invested $350M in Rivian.

They did not invite the bigger auto Utubbers like Throttle House(1.6M subs) The Straight Pipes(1.4M subs) TFL Car/TRuck(1M subs),Redline Reviews(870k subs) Alex on Autos(420k subs), . TFLTruck in Colorado seems right on brand with Rivian.

They did invite Roadshow(262k subs) and Autoblog(144k subs)

They invited Insideevs and Electrek.

They invited Transport Evolved(143k subs) from the UK but not the much larger Fully Charged(827k subs).

JerryRigEverything tech/gadget channel with 7M subs but not Marques Brownlee with almost 15M subs. The guy from JRE is a Rivian reservation holder.

They did not invite Zach and Jesse that have at least one Rivian reservation from Now You Know with 270k subs. Maybe too Tesla fanboyish?

They did invite Rivian reservation holder Ben Sullins with 240k subs.

They invited the Whats Inside Family that is a lifestyle channel? that has been getting more and more into Tesla and EVs.

And they invited Rivian fanbois Rivian Stories with 6k subs.

 

[MP3Mike]

They invited Transport Evolved(143k subs) from the UK but not the much larger Fully Charged(827k subs).

I'm not sure I would say that Transport Evolved are from the UK at this point, as they are currently based in Oregon...

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Interesting who Rivian invited to their event in Colorado.

They did not invite Car & Driver but did invite fellow Hearst Publication Road & Track

Not a lot of the traditional auto media. They did invite Kelly Blue Book which is owned by Cox Automotive. Which in turn invested $350M in Rivian.

They did not invite the bigger auto Utubbers like Throttle House(1.6M subs) The Straight Pipes(1.4M subs) TFL Car/TRuck(1M subs),Redline Reviews(870k subs) Alex on Autos(420k subs), . TFLTruck in Colorado seems right on brand with Rivian.

They did invite Roadshow(262k subs) and Autoblog(144k subs)

They invited Insideevs and Electrek.

They invited Transport Evolved(143k subs) from the UK but not the much larger Fully Charged(827k subs).

JerryRigEverything tech/gadget channel with 7M subs but not Marques Brownlee with almost 15M subs. The guy from JRE is a Rivian reservation holder.

They did not invite Zach and Jesse that have at least one Rivian reservation from Now You Know with 270k subs. Maybe too Tesla fanboyish?

They did invite Rivian reservation holder Ben Sullins with 240k subs.

They invited the Whats Inside Family that is a lifestyle channel? that has been getting more and more into Tesla and EVs.

And they invited Rivian fanbois Rivian Stories with 6k subs.

Reads like a sampling of various different media/influencer targets.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Rivian R1T climbs Hells Gate

It did as well as a 2019 Kia Sorrento!

 

[RobStark]

It did as well as a 2019 Kia Sorrento!

Here is a more complete video but still edited.

They bottom out and hit the rear underbody because it doesn't have enough clearance.

They put an aftermarket skid plate over the oil pan. Probably because they did test runs and the oil pan was punctured.

They put aftermarket tires and manually disconnect the sway bars.

I will wager you can do Hells Gate in an R1T without any adjustments or aftermarket parts.

 

[RobStark]

Rivian IPO S1 filing

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1874178/000119312521289903/d157488ds1.htm

Take Aways:

• 14
  • Directed Share Program - Preorder holders will likely be able to participate in the IPO in some fashion.
• 21
  • Preorders - 48,390 R1T / R1S as of September 30, 2021 in the United States and Canada.
• 100
  • R1S Deliveries Build starting in December.
• 101
  • As of September 30, 2021, we operated six service centers in four states (California, Illinois, Washington, and New York), 11 mobile service vehicles, a 24/7 service support center in Michigan, and have secured 24 RAN DCFC sites in seven states, 145 Rivian Waypoints charging sites in 30 states, and 20 service center locations for further expansion.
• 111
  • Delivery fee is likely $1,7XX
  • Autonomous Driving Purchase is likely $10,000 or 'subscription' is expected to be $5,500 over 10 years.
• 115
  • Higher performance and fewer motor vehicles are being planned for.
• 116
  • Driver+
    • 11 cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, five radars, and a high-precision GPS antenna
    • We expect our platform’s architecture will enable us to evolve and expand our Driver+ offerings to support SAE Level 3 autonomy
• 117
  • Rivian has plans for Fleet Management. Later in the doc is more detail about it.
• 119
  • Factory - 150,000 vehicles annually. Up to 200,000 vehicles annually in 2023.
• 120
  • Service
    • 120 service centers and to deploy in excess of 1,000 mobile service vans in 2023
    • Our entire service infrastructure is shared by our consumer and commercial customers which generates operational synergies in both physical assets as well as labor. (Is this using Amazon locations as service centers?)
• 121
  • DCFC - RAN DCFCs are designed to output over 200 kW of DC power for initial R1 vehicles (up to 140 miles of range in 20 minutes), with over 300 kW planned for future vehicles. Oof.
• 124
  • R1S Camp Kitchen - A rear cargo mounted Camp Kitchen will also be available for the R1S
  • Amazon Vans - There are 3 different lengths. Range of between 120-150 miles.
• 126-128
  • Additional screenshots of app future functionality such as financing and service.
• 139
  • States they can sell in - Long list. .
• 147
  • Board Members
    • Karen Boon - President of Restoration Hardware
    • Sanford Schwartz - Cox
    • Rose Marcario - Patagonia
    • Peter Krawiec - Amazon
    • Jay Flatley - Illumina (genetic analysis company)
    • Pamela Thomas-Graham - Dandelion Chandelier (luxo digital media)
• 156
  • RJ Salary - $1,300,000 all in salary and bonus. He also controls a tremendous amount of company shares.
• 174
  • Ford - They have purchased bodies in white from them in the past, but no longer do. They currently purchase tooling and experise.
  • Cox - Cox will be the reseller of any used Rivians, and likely trade ins. They will get preferential pricing on service on them and whatnot in exchange for marketing.
• F-25
  • Rivian terminated a contract with a major supplier in 2019 and demanded repayment of $18M. They believed that it would settle for less, but in December 2020 made a call that they would never get that money back.

I got the above from rivian forums from a poster with handle RWerksman. I don't know if I am allowed to link, so didn't .

 

[RobStark]

EV truck maker Rivian plans in-house battery cell manufacturing

Electric truck maker Rivian Automotive, which currently sources batteries from South Korean supplier Samsung SDI , plans to build battery cells in-house, its filing for a U.S. initial public offering showed on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[RobStark]

Hummer EV Edition1 platform

Should get ~350 EPA mile range at ~64 MPGe.

'21 Prius Eco 56 MPG combined.

 

[RobStark]

LG to pay up to $1.9 billion to General Motors over Bolt EV battery fires

Problems with the Bolt – the company's flagship mainstream EV – have led the automaker to recall every one of the electric cars since production began in 2016.

www.cnbc.com

 

[RobStark]

Aptera

250 mile range $25.9k front wheel drive 5.5 seconds 0-60 up to 20 miles per day from car mounted solar panels

400 mile range $29.8k

1000 mile range $50.7k all wheel drive 3.5 seconds 0-60 up to 40 miles per day from car mounted solar panels

Sandy Munro's Munro & Associates helping them create "micro factories" to manufacture the vehicles.

Yes, they are probably going to fail. Again. Yes, I hope they succeed. Again.

 

[wdolson]

Weirdmobiles tend to have a limited market. Though they can become collectors' cars in time. Has there ever been a three wheel car that ever sold more than a relative handful? I know three wheel motorcycles have a market. That's mostly among people who want the open feel of a motorcycle, but don't have the balance anymore to keep a motorcycle upright. I would think an enclosed three wheel car would have a fairly limited market.