Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[FANGO]

Someone managed to get a test drive on a new electric R8 prototype:

2015 Audi R8 e-tron first drive review

This is not "new." There were several "first drive" articles of this car in 2009-2010. Because they've been talking about it since then and have nothing to show for it. In fact, in 2009 at the LA Auto Show an auto journalist from The Sun drove my MINI E around LA for the day and was writing a story about it, but scrapped the story instead to write one about his drive in the e-tron. A car which never existed and never will exist. Prove me wrong, Audi.

Nothing from Audi is worth anyone's time until they come out with actual real cars that actual people can purchase with actual money and drive on actual roads and park in actual garages. You can't drive press releases.

 

[paulwesterberg]

91kWh, wieght 1840kg, max torque: 920Nm, RWD, range 400 to 450km
P85D weighs 2100kg, with max torque of: 931Nm
So it sounds as though it could rival the P85D on the dragstrip, but 0-100km/h is just 3.9sec.

This part is Hilarious:

There is a big red button within the centre console to activate a sound generator used to mimic the hum of the naturally aspirated 5.2-litre V10 direct-injection petrol engine used by the standard R8. However, Hackenberg is not a fan of such frippery

 

[Johan]

... So why the frippery then???

 

[FANGO]

91kWh, wieght 1840kg, max torque: 920Nm, RWD, range 400 to 450km
P85D weighs 2100kg, with max torque of: 931Nm
So it sounds as though it could rival the P85D on the dragstrip, but 0-100km/h is just 3.9sec.:

I think it weighs 0kg, just like all other vaporware.

 

[RobStark]

Richard Branson says Virgin might compete with Tesla on electric cars

Virgin founder Richard Branson hinted to Bloomberg this week that an electric vehicle meant for the roads is quite possibly in the works. "We've got teams of people trying to develop and work on electric cars," he says. "So you never know. You may well find Virgin competing with Tesla in the car business as we do in the space business. We'll see what happens."

Virgin is working on electric vehicles to compete in Formula E, an electric-vehicle racing series.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/19/8257731/virgin-electric-car-branson-hints

Richard thinks Tesla and SpaceX are the same company. :biggrin: He can't quite accept another billionaire getting more media coverage.:tongue:


If he can make great BEVs all the power to him.

 

[ecarfan]

Would love to see Branson get into the EV business. He's the kind of risk taker who would do it. He and Elon could have a terrific -- and friendly -- rivalry in the EV space.

 

[dalalsid]

in the EV space.

I see what you did there

 

[sandpiper]

Would love to see Branson get into the EV business. He's the kind of risk taker who would do it. He and Elon could have a terrific -- and friendly -- rivalry in the EV space.

I don't know.... Branson is a great showman and businessman. But doing an EV well is more about continuous attention to design, engineering and the details required to make it a technical success. Tesla is succeeding first and foremost because they built a damn good vehicle and are aggressively building out the ecosystem needed to support it. It's NOT primarily about marketing.

Branson's adventures with Virgin Galactic give me the sense that he does a bit of hand waving, makes some grand pronouncements and then leaves the technical side of things to others to sort out without any direct involvement. I don't think that that's what the industry needs right now.

 

[Johan]

I don't know.... Branson is a great showman and businessman. But doing an EV well is more about continuous attention to design, engineering and the details required to make it a technical success. Tesla is succeeding first and foremost because they built a damn good vehicle and are aggressively building out the ecosystem needed to support it. It's NOT primarily about marketing.

Branson's adventures with Virgin Galactic give me the sense that he does a bit of hand waving, makes some grand pronouncements and then leaves the technical side of things to others to sort out without any direct involvement. I don't think that that's what the industry needs right now.

Agree completely. He's not an engineer, he's "just" a businessman. That's what I meant by my posting with images of the Virgin Galactic crash v.s. SpaceX's hoovering rocket. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful.

 

[kenliles]

VW making some decisions by July on whether to use new battery tech they are looking at from QuantumScape Corp.
potential 430mi range- not much detail; but an interesting note to watch
VW to Decide on New Battery Technology for Electric Cars by July - Bloomberg Business

 

[sundaymorning]

VW making some decisions by July on whether to use new battery tech they are looking at from QuantumScape Corp.
potential 430mi range- not much detail; but an interesting note to watch
VW to Decide on New Battery Technology for Electric Cars by July - Bloomberg Business

If VW or anyone else had a potential 430 mile range battery that is competitively priced with lithium, they wouldn't be "waiting to make a decision".... VW would be holding press conferences and racing against Tesla for a gigafactory buildout. The problem with any new battery technology is that without wider adoption among the tech industry, affordability will still be out of reach for the average person. If VW does have the tech, I see their 430 mile range vehicle costig 200k-250k, maybe more.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I don't know.... Branson is a great showman and businessman. But doing an EV well is more about continuous attention to design, engineering and the details required to make it a technical success. Tesla is succeeding first and foremost because they built a damn good vehicle and are aggressively building out the ecosystem needed to support it. It's NOT primarily about marketing.

Branson's adventures with Virgin Galactic give me the sense that he does a bit of hand waving, makes some grand pronouncements and then leaves the technical side of things to others to sort out without any direct involvement. I don't think that that's what the industry needs right now.

Elon Musk has the advantage of being able to understand underlying physics, which gives him a sense of the possible. Those who don't understand it need good advice on the possible but then they can do exactly what Elon Musk's companies try to do and that's to hire really smart people to solve hard problems with huge potential market value.

 

[RobStark]

Elon Musk has the advantage of being able to understand underlying physics, which gives him a sense of the possible. Those who don't understand it need good advice on the possible but then they can do exactly what Elon Musk's companies try to do and that's to hire really smart people to solve hard problems with huge potential market value.

That is the crux of the matter isn't it; getting good advice. A committee of very smart engineers and PhDs are advising Toyota executives to put almost all of their resources into hydrogen FCEVs. Most automakers are getting advice to diversify risk by pursuing both technologies.


That is the difference between Tesla and every other automaker relying on a committee of experts. Even Renualt-Nissan are funding a FCEV program "just in case."

 

[RobStark]

BMW Mall "Pop Up" Stores.

And Volvo "Pop UP" stores.

Gee, I wonder where they got this idea?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

BMW Mall "Pop Up" Stores.

And Volvo "Pop UP" stores.

Gee, I wonder where they got this idea?

To be fair, if you go to a mall here, you'd be likely to see some dealer with a few vehicles in one of the "exhibition spaces". Permit To Demonstrate costs 1 dollar.. They're high end marques so they spend a bit more themselves I guess.

 

[RobStark]

To be fair, if you go to a mall here, you'd be likely to see some dealer with a few vehicles in one of the "exhibition spaces". Permit To Demonstrate costs 1 dollar.. They're high end marques so they spend a bit more themselves I guess.

Big difference between putting a locked car in the middle of the mall walkway and having store with samples,brand "geniuses", video displays etc. At least BMW and Volvo seem to think so.

 

[daniel Ox9EFD]

(direct link: https://static-ssl.businessinsider....960/screen shot 2015-03-31 at 11.12.06 am.png ) ,
looking at the above chart, there are the R8 etron, which will be built to order. And the currently vaporware Bolt, competing against the model 3.

So there is no product that is currently competing with Tesla directly. Potential in say 5 years out? That is a question of capacity. I know of BYD building 34GWh/yr, but is there anyone else? Perhaps LG Chem, but they have to spread capacity between many customers. Nissan/AESC? Not that I'm aware of.

This chart gives a hint as to who might be relevant in 5 years. I see two main players (Tesla/Panasonic, BYD) with LG Chem, Nissan/AESC playing catch up.

 

[brianman]

Thanks for sharing, daniel. I'd love to see these charts evolve to indicate which vehicles are actually currently for sale to consumers in > 4000 units per year.

 

[FANGO]

Bolt isn't vaporware, it's announced. It's no more vaporware than the 3 is. R8 e tron, however, does not deserve a space on that graph. That car is the definition of vaporware.

 

[32no]

Bolt isn't vaporware, it's announced. It's no more vaporware than the 3 is. R8 e tron, however, does not deserve a space on that graph. That car is the definition of vaporware.

Of course the Bolt is more vaporware. First of all, GM is still unsure about the future of the Bolt and has stated that the prototype is not how its going to look. Tesla is saying that they will have a compelling non-compliance car out for sale in 2017, and Tesla has said this with 'oomph'. Moreover, Tesla has already delivered compelling non-compliance electric cars and has proven itself in terms of delivering compelling EVs, unlike any other auto manufacturer. Finally, Tesla pretty much already has the platform and skateboard for the Model 3 figured out and has a supply plan, whereas GM has only started on the powertrain and its supply plan is to use the small amount of excess battery capacity.