Tesla engineers crapped the bed on the Gen 3 Wall Connector

[TechnoBabble]

In Ontario anyway... So apparently this new Tesla gen 3 charger MUST be installed with 6 awg wire and a 60 amp breaker. No longer can the Tesla wall connector be wired for the charge rate that is it set to. reason being.... it can be cranked up by simply using a smart phone.... This comes directly from the ESA.
The previous Tesla generation 2 wall connector was able to be installed with any size of wire and fuse if the rotary dial was set to the corresponding amperage.

 

[SSonnentag]

Makes good sense to me. A second owner may not have any idea what gauge wiring was used. 6 AWG wiring and conduit are cheap anyway.

 

[Blu-Ion]

Makes good sense to me. A second owner may not have any idea what gauge wiring was used. 6 AWG wiring and conduit are cheap anyway.

Yeah I don't think understand. ESA is our Electrical Safety Authority in Ontario, and if they force you to rate the charger at 60AMP, then all 100AMP home service (most homes in Ontario) will not pass... that's the issue. I have mine set at 20AMP for that reason which is plenty by the way.. why 60AMPs, seriously too much juice for overnight charging

 

[TechnoBabble]

Makes good sense to me. A second owner may not have any idea what gauge wiring was used. 6 AWG wiring and conduit are cheap anyway.

But the unit was not designed to be installed solely on a 60 amp line. This is wasteful and the copper is better off left in the ground.
The instructions state that it can be wired with a smaller breaker and gauge of wire based on the available service. The fact that it can be cranked up so easily is the issue and why it was designed without a solid way to lock or prevent increase is beyond me.
If you have a model 3 standard range plus and want to charge outdoors, you are forced to install a 60 amp circuit even thought the car only pulls 32 amps.
Apparently most installers are now pushing aftermarket units like chargepoint and flo which can be wired with 8 gauge or smaller based on the users needs.

 

[SSonnentag]

But the unit was not designed to be installed solely on a 60 amp line. This is wasteful and the copper is better off left in the ground.
The instructions state that it can be wired with a smaller breaker and gauge of wire based on the available service. The fact that it can be cranked up so easily is the issue and why it was designed without a solid way to lock or prevent increase is beyond me.
If you have a model 3 standard range plus and want to charge outdoors, you are forced to install a 60 amp circuit even thought the car only pulls 32 amps.
Apparently most installers are now pushing aftermarket units like chargepoint and flo which can be wired with 8 gauge or smaller based on the users needs.

In order to draw 32 A, you need a 40 A circuit anyway, which still requires a minimum of 8 AWG wire, so it's only one size larger. No biggie.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Interesting

I have a Gen1 installed - which can charge up to 80 amps. As such, they insisted on a disconnect, but were okay with a 50 amp breaker.

 

[SSonnentag]

It's sort of like wiring a house circuit using 18 AWG wire because I'm only planning on running a single LED light. But what happens when someone comes along and throws a 300W flood lamp in the socket instead? It's a safety thing.

 

[TechnoBabble]

In order to draw 32 A, you need a 40 A circuit anyway, which still requires a minimum of 8 AWG wire, so it's only one size larger. No biggie.

Totally true in the case of a few feet. At 50+ feet though its an added and wasteful cost both on the pocket and the environment.
Also most people around here have 100 amp services and would fail inspection if they install the unit to their 100 amp service which forces them to upgrade to 200 amps.

 

[SSonnentag]

Interesting

I have a Gen1 installed - which can charge up to 80 amps. As such, they insisted on a disconnect, but were okay with a 50 amp breaker.

Yeah, that's due to the hardware dipswitches included in the Gen 1 and Gen 2 units. A phone app for the Gen 3 removes the dipswitches, making it too simple to burn your house down by accident, thus the 6 AWG requirement.

 

[SSonnentag]

Totally true in the case of a few feet. At 50+ feet though its an added and wasteful cost both on the pocket and the environment.
Also most people around here have 100 amp services and would fail inspection if they install the unit to their 100 amp service which forces them to upgrade to 200 amps.

I'm not sure on codes, but I'm pretty sure you're allowed to install an undersized breaker, meaning you might be allowed to install a 40A breaker while the wiring is good for 60A. Could be wrong though...

 

[TechnoBabble]

It's sort of like wiring a house circuit using 18 AWG wire because I'm only planning on running a single LED light. But what happens when someone comes along and throws a 300W flood lamp in the socket instead? It's a safety thing.

Yeah you're just not getting my point. The gen 3 wall connector was designed to be installed with various wire gauges and breakers, its right in the user manual. The manual should only state that 6 gauge copper and a 60 amp breaker must be used. Not mislead owners into thinking that it can be wired with smaller wire and breaker sizes only to have owners fail inspection.
This is a huge design flaw imo.

 

[SSonnentag]

Yeah you're just not getting my point. The gen 3 wall connector was designed to be installed with various wire gauges and breakers, its right in the user manual. The manual should only state that 6 gauge copper and a 60 amp breaker must be used. Not mislead owners into thinking that it can be wired with smaller wire and breaker sizes only to have owners fail inspection.
This is a huge design flaw imo.

Oh, the manual states the wire size is negotiable based upon what you intend to set the max Amperage draw to via the app? If that's the case, I agree it shouldn't say that.

 

[pb2000]

This is dumb. So far as the unit is password protected and it defaults to off or 12A if it loses it's config, then I see that as fine. An idiot with a screwdriver can just as easily change the dipswitch on the V2 connector.

 

[Casmium]

I'm not sure on codes, but I'm pretty sure you're allowed to install an undersized breaker, meaning you might be allowed to install a 40A breaker while the wiring is good for 60A. Could be wrong though...

the code part states you can only run 32A on a 40A breaker, but you would still be able to set it to charge at 40A in the app and run 40A on the 40A breaker which would be a code problem as the max should be 32A. In the grand scheme of things the dip or software shouldn't make a difference other than to access the dip switches you will be in plain view of the wire while you can change it over wifi without every seeing the wires.

 

[CyberGus]

Pulling 40A from a 30A circuit won't start a fire, it will trip the breaker. Anyone that sets their WC to excess amperage (either by dip switch or software) will quickly find that it simply doesn't work.

 

[SSonnentag]

Pulling 40A from a 30A circuit won't start a fire, it will trip the breaker. Anyone that sets their WC to excess amperage (either by dip switch or software) will quickly find that it simply doesn't work.

True, but you could pull 40A on a 40A circuit, or even a bit more than 40A, which would really heat up wiring and is in violation of electrical codes.

 

[MXLRplus]

It's a POS and they WON'T warranty it. Mine overheated at the handle / cable connection. There is no way to get it fixed or replaced. Seriously. I tried 5 times in 4 months, nope. I even had a "case number" assigned to it.

Anyone want to buy a lightly used Gen3? Only used 3 times. Defective as sold.

 

[MXLRplus]

Pulling 40A from a 30A circuit won't start a fire, it will trip the breaker. Anyone that sets their WC to excess amperage (either by dip switch or software) will quickly find that it simply doesn't work.

Don't be so sure. Mine started to bubble the cable near the handle, which coded and shut down the charger. I reduced the power to 20 amps and it still tried to melt the cable near the handle before coding.

5 watts can easily start a fire. 7,000 watts is a bit more.

 

[MattM24]

You can run a 60A breaker on a 100A service in Ontario, if the peak demand ampacity for the last 12 months plus the name plate rating of the charger is under 100A. ESA signed off on mine.
This is in the ESA Bulletin below.

 

[Zerosky]

Yeah you're just not getting my point. The gen 3 wall connector was designed to be installed with various wire gauges and breakers, its right in the user manual. The manual should only state that 6 gauge copper and a 60 amp breaker must be used. Not mislead owners into thinking that it can be wired with smaller wire and breaker sizes only to have owners fail inspection.
This is a huge design flaw imo.

You do realize that the manual is only a guideline right? The manual requires you to use a minimum 6 AWG wire, Ontario code requires at least 8 AWG.

Your local electrical code takes precedence over the what manual says as it differs from place to place.