Tesla Gigafactory

[brandude87]

New video and photos of GF out yesterday: Tesla Gigafactory: new aerial shots show plant more than doubling in size [September 2016 update]

 

[Ulmo]

I would expect a delay toward installing a massive solar roof. 1) build the roof structure first. 2) finish the solar roof factory in Buffalo to get the latest/greatest in design. 3) Perhaps buy that company so you get an insiders pricing.

As I look at the long-range plans, that roof is covered in panels. And the newest thought is the the roof IS the panels. Well, perhaps not the building under the panels, but the weather facing layer.

Analyzing your failure that you caught and partially corrected in your last sentence, this brings up another possibility, bringing your correction to fruition: that they build another floor on top of the top, housing who knows what inside that top floor, and the roof of that floor is the new roofing material panels. This could be a good test center to find out how they fare in that installation, getting early run out of the Buffalo factory.

 

[winfield100]

New video and photos of GF out yesterday: Tesla Gigafactory: new aerial shots show plant more than doubling in size [September 2016 update]

what exactly is the "dark shiney" area in module 4 from the left (on the south end next to new construction)
It sure looks like a reflection of clouds which may imply PV panels

 

[Ulmo]

what exactly is the "dark shiney" area in module 4 from the left (on the south end next to new construction)
It sure looks like a reflection of clouds which may imply PV panels

Tar before painted? (I have no great knowledge about that, but at least it's my guess for now.)

 

[winfield100]

Tar before painted? (I have no great knowledge about that, but at least it's my guess for now.)

you may be correct, i have a friend who had to put tar on roofs in New Mexico, 40-50 years ago as one of his first jobs.

 

[MassModel3]

what exactly is the "dark shiney" area in module 4 from the left (on the south end next to new construction)
It sure looks like a reflection of clouds which may imply PV panels

Definitely not shiny enough for that!

I expect that the GF's roof design will be closely related to a recent EM tweet in which he said that they are "Aiming for Oct 28 unveil in SF Bay Area of new Tesla/SolarCity solar roof with integrated Powerwall 2.0 battery and Tesla charger." That would mean that a separate battery farm might not be necessary -- just put the batteries on the roof with the panels.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Does anyone have a "name" for each of these construction sites? I THINK that the southern most white roof is called "A" followed by B and C as you go north. There is some construction on Roof D and D'. The "silver" colored roof I heard was called A' with E to the south of that. The two sections to the west - I cannot even guess what they are called. Could somebody make a drawing of these sections? It could be useful to speculate that "Area B is where the 2070 cells are being made, area E is where power walls are being assembled " stuff like that, but perhaps with more authority that I can muster.

 

[brandude87]

Does anyone have a "name" for each of these construction sites? I THINK that the southern most white roof is called "A" followed by B and C as you go north. There is some construction on Roof D and D'. The "silver" colored roof I heard was called A' with E to the south of that. The two sections to the west - I cannot even guess what they are called. Could somebody make a drawing of these sections? It could be useful to speculate that "Area B is where the 2070 cells are being made, area E is where power walls are being assembled " stuff like that, but perhaps with more authority that I can muster.

Here's a rendering of my best guess understanding of the labeling of the current sections. This is based loosely on my memory and backed up (for sections A - F, at least) by this video. This is just my best guess, though. Let me know if you find any more concrete evidence.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Here's a rendering of my best guess understanding of the labeling of the current sections. This is based loosely on my memory and backed up (for sections A - F, at least) by this video. This is just my best guess, though. Let me know if you find any more concrete evidence.

View attachment 196336

Thanks soon much for this map. It is much different than I had understood, but thats why I asked for a competent map. The video nailed it. Thanks.

 

[Jeff N]

Does anyone have a "name" for each of these construction sites? I THINK that the southern most white roof is called "A" followed by B and C as you go north. There is some construction on Roof D and D'. The "silver" colored roof I heard was called A' with E to the south of that. The two sections to the west - I cannot even guess what they are called. Could somebody make a drawing of these sections? It could be useful to speculate that "Area B is where the 2070 cells are being made, area E is where power walls are being assembled " stuff like that, but perhaps with more authority that I can muster.

I'm going to venture a guess that 'B' is where Gigafactory party tour guests were taken to see the first 21/70 battery production line but I'm not sure of that and can't recall with certainty anymore.

I was on the tour and was told that the 'D' area would contain one or more additional battery production line(s) using the new and improved factory floor design.

As I wrote at the time:
Tesla Throws a Gigaparty - HybridCars.com

The first buildings and battery manufacturing lines are being built according to the original layout plans but the next building phase will follow a redesign developed jointly between Tesla and Panasonic that will have battery equipment lines with twice the area but four-times the output. By increasing space efficiency of battery manufacturing in the factory, Tesla says the factory will now be able to build up to 150 gigawatt-hours of cells at completion in 2020. Although estimates vary, Musk said total global lithium-ion cell production in 2014 was about 30 gigawatt-hours.

 

[brandude87]

I'm going to venture a guess that 'B' is where Gigafactory party tour guests were taken to see the first 21/70 battery production line but I'm not sure of that and can't recall with certainty anymore.

I was on the tour and was told that the 'D' area would contain one or more additional battery production line(s) using the new and improved factory floor design.

As I wrote at the time:
Tesla Throws a Gigaparty - HybridCars.com

That seems like a logical way to label the sections, however, if you dig through the old Gigafactory permits here, you'll see permits issued for section A (or area A as it is sometimes referred) all the way back to September 2015. This would mean that the first four sections must be A, B, C, and D from north to south.

 

[purplewalt]

Here's a rendering of my best guess understanding of the labeling of the current sections. This is based loosely on my memory and backed up (for sections A - F, at least) by this video. This is just my best guess, though. Let me know if you find any more concrete evidence.

View attachment 196336

So much to cover....

I had the Opportunity to visit the Gigafactory during the opening party, and took a guided tour of the facility.

Building Section "A" is currently staffed by Tesla employees.
The primary facet of their current activities is the assembly, packaging and shipping of Powerpack and Powerwall Units.
Most of the interior had finishes installed, Power was on, A/C was operable, Equipment and Robots were working.
Section "A" is where the Red Model 3 was on display (Northwest corner).

Building Sections "B" and "C" are currently staffed by Panasonic employees who are helping the installation of the myriad equipment and ovens to manufacture the new 21-70 batteries.
Most of the interior had finishes installed, Power was ON, A/C was operable, some equipment was being installed and tested, lots more to be installed and made operable.

Building Section "D" had the skeleton of the structure installed, with no slab installed.
Portions of the exterior skin had been installed on the East and West Elevations, the South Elevation had no skin installed.
I doubt the final roof material has been installed on Section "D".
The roof area might be having some material installed, but I suspect a major component of the roof will entail high level rigid insulation to minimize head load on the building envelope.

Building Section "E" seems to be coming along nicely (maybe 60% structurally complete?).
None of that area had any vertical steel or beams installed at the time of the party.

Building Section "F" appears to be about 8 - 12% complete.
None had been started at the time of the Party on July 29.

A portion of Section "G's" structure had been erected before the party, and major portions of the structure and floors now look to be relatively completed. No walls appear to have bee installed.

Section "H" only had initial drilling begun for piers on July 29.
A small section of structure appears to have now been installed.

For those of you who haven't had a chance to tour the factory, it is really huge.
The scale is just immense, as is the amount of manpower, materials and money being utilized 24/7 to build the facility.

 

[Jeff N]

That seems like a logical way to label the sections, however, if you dig through the old Gigafactory permits here, you'll see permits issued for section A (or area A as it is sometimes referred) all the way back to September 2015. This would mean that the first four sections must be A, B, C, and D from north to south.

I didn't mean to say anything about whether the labels on the buildings on that map are correct. I meant to add some details behind what is going in to the buildings as Tesla refers to them by these building letter names. I don't remember offhand what I was told about which building sections correspond to section 'D' etc.

 

[brandude87]

I didn't mean to say anything about whether the labels on the buildings on that map are correct. I meant to add some details behind what is going in to the buildings as Tesla refers to them by these building letter names. I don't remember offhand what I was told about which building sections correspond to section 'D' etc.

Sorry about that, Jeff. I had assumed that when you said that the tour started at section B, you were implying that the northern most completed section was section B. I now see that this was a false assumption, and I apologize.

So much to cover....

Purplewalt, thank you for all the helpful details!

 

[googlepeakoil]

Well Tesla plans on using Solar panels, a wind farm, and geothermal energy to power the GF when it's complete. Whether or when such replenishable energy supplies will be used prior to full completion hes not been disclosed. So yes, they do plan to be self sufficient, but that doesn't mean they'll detach from the grid, either. Certainly they'll want the grid available as a supplier of last resort, and whether excess power will be sold back to the Nevada power companies is something I don't recall ever having been mentioned, either.

You have to wonder how much is "green washing" - pretending to be more green than they really are! After all - by the time the GF is running how many of the millions of people that saw the original presentation will be asking - where are the solar panels and wind turbines? At 100ft high its not like they can be seen on the roof by visitors / factory workers/press people - unless they get in their helicopters!
From what I recall the billion+ dollar tax-break from Nevada that got them to go there included subsidised everything including cheap electricity for 20 years... so the incentive for Tesla to make it's own energy is arguably less than probably any other company in the state!!! But still - if S/C goes through they'll probably take the cheap panels from there and use their own Power Wall's.
If Tesla (Powerpacks) and S/C (solar panels) from new factory are supply constrained (not demand constrained) they're probably better off selling all they can than putting them on their own roof!! More instant profit than long-term profit from the installation - if any at all.
Hypothetically - if you're paying 5c a KW for 20 years that's maybe 2x cheaper than solar or wind - even if you own the solarpanels and batteries.

 

[techmaven]

You have to wonder how much is "green washing" - pretending to be more green than they really are! After all - by the time the GF is running how many of the millions of people that saw the original presentation will be asking - where are the solar panels and wind turbines? At 100ft high its not like they can be seen on the roof by visitors / factory workers/press people - unless they get in their helicopters!
From what I recall the billion+ dollar tax-break from Nevada that got them to go there included subsidised everything including cheap electricity for 20 years... so the incentive for Tesla to make it's own energy is arguably less than probably any other company in the state!!! But still - if S/C goes through they'll probably take the cheap panels from there and use their own Power Wall's.
If Tesla (Powerpacks) and S/C (solar panels) from new factory are supply constrained (not demand constrained) they're probably better off selling all they can than putting them on their own roof!! More instant profit than long-term profit from the installation - if any at all.
Hypothetically - if you're paying 5c a KW for 20 years that's maybe 2x cheaper than solar or wind - even if you own the solarpanels and batteries.

The first part of being much, much greener is to reduce the amount of energy required to make the same product. And Tesla did mention that their cathode baking oven will already save 80% of the energy as compared to the way it was originally configured. Not only is it greener by design, it lowers the cost of production.

The factory also does not have any other energy hookup than the grid. Plenty of very large, energy intensive factories have natural gas hookup or colocated coal plants. Since the grid is the only hookup, then Tesla can first buy renewable energy from the grid. Then they can mix in their own generation sources.

It would make sense to use their initial production runs to build Tesla Energy product for use at the factory itself.

 

[googlepeakoil]

The first part of being much, much greener is to reduce the amount of energy required to make the same product. And Tesla did mention that their cathode baking oven will already save 80% of the energy as compared to the way it was originally configured. Not only is it greener by design, it lowers the cost of production.

The factory also does not have any other energy hookup than the grid. Plenty of very large, energy intensive factories have natural gas hookup or colocated coal plants. Since the grid is the only hookup, then Tesla can first buy renewable energy from the grid. Then they can mix in their own generation sources.

It would make sense to use their initial production runs to build Tesla Energy product for use at the factory itself.

but my point (from doing economics as a degree) is that if you can save $100k a year by using your own electricity - but you forego $1m sales (if production constrained) by stopping a sale and fitting it what do you think Tesla would do? They'd sell the product and make that $1m. Only if they had spare production capacity and very low costs and wanted to evaluate it would they fit it themselves.

 

[techmaven]

but my point (from doing economics as a degree) is that if you can save $100k a year by using your own electricity - but you forego $1m sales (if production constrained) by stopping a sale and fitting it what do you think Tesla would do? They'd sell the product and make that $1m. Only if they had spare production capacity and very low costs and wanted to evaluate it would they fit it themselves.

I suspect that they will want to build quite a few cells for testing. Probably many megawatt hours of cells during factory startup. Those cells can be used for stationary storage for the factory itself. Fremont already has some stationary storage, as does some other Tesla facilities. They may very well have to make quite a few demonstration units to show customers anyways, and it makes sense to use those for use at the Gigafactory.

 

[Model 3]

but my point (from doing economics as a degree)

Did that include anything about the effect of showing your customers that you actually use what you produce? And the effect of showing them that you actually act as you preach others to do? Or the effect of NOT doing any of that?

 

[googlepeakoil]

Did that include anything about the effect of showing your customers that you actually use what you produce? And the effect of showing them that you actually act as you preach others to do? Or the effect of NOT doing any of that?

How many Superchargers actually have solarpanels on the top? Yeah, not that many. Not that many have powerpacks to grid-balance either. Also at maybe 3kw per bay (peak sunshine hours) it won't cover 1/20th, maybe only 1/40th of a fairly well used S/C that's pumping out up to 120kw. And do Tesla promise to buy electricity from renewable companies - even if the cost is higher? Probably not. So not really "powered by daylight". Many states have a high proportion of renewables it's true. But I'm not too surprised we haven't seen solarpanels on the GF roof yet. I don't expect to see them before the S/C plant is running it's new factory at full capacity - and it's not going into production until about 9-12 months from now.
I'm just saying - the incentive to install solar is a lot lower when the state gave you ridiculous cheap utility costs - and Tesla need to build their GF on the cheap - $5bn without going back to the city for more $ over and over again.
Note - I calculate 3kw per bay based on the best Sunpower / (or new S/C panels) at about 430w per panel (1x2m panels) and the generous spacing between cars in the S/C bays.