Tesla head on collision with a Honda

[ZestyChicken]

Those are low volume cars and you are going across multiple years to pull them. Of the current non-AMG offerings of the C/E/S/G/GL/GLK series (92.5% of Merc sales), I could only find the E550 Coupe, E550 Cabriolet, S550 and the S600 sedans that have sub 5 second times. None of these cars - including the AMG - could best the Performance S by the way. You would have to go to the more exotic cars such as the SL-65 ($212,240) or the gorgeous SLS AMG GT (~$200,000) to get Mercs that can beat the 5-seated Tesla S Performance.

If you see a random Merc on the road, chances are it's going to be a C-250, C-350 or an SUV. All of which the non-performance S could beat.

Granted it's Laguna Beach so it's tempting to think it could have been a more exotic Merc. However, they hit an old Accord so clearly people drive reasonable cars in the area. In the end, we likely won't know unless the Merc driver turns himself in.

 

[kevincwelch]

Could have been the opposite. What if the good doctor was trying to show off his Model S by coming up from behind on the Merc and then realized he was running out of room and tried to force the Merc over?

I just don't understand the whole coffee cup thing. Merc driver decides to throw a coffee cup at the Model S while doing 70?

Another scenario:

Looking at a Satellite view, the driver of the MS could have been sitting at the stop light at Toro. It's a single lane road. Mr. Benz comes up from behind at speed, sees the light turn green and pulls an illegal pass in the right hand turn lane. The MS launches at the light unaware that the MB is trying to pass him and his speed surprises and angers Mr. Benz (who thinks the MS is trying to cut him off). Mr. Benz stomps it and tosses coffee at the MS driver as an FU. MS driver is totally surprised to see a car fly by on his right (illegally) and an object is thrown at him which causes him to instinctually swerve away and strike the Honda. That could easily fit eyewitness reports.

How could two cars race side by side if there is only one lane? The Benz driver HAD to be going straight through the intersection in a turn lane.

 

[ZestyChicken]

Another scenario:

Looking at a Satellite view, the driver of the MS could have been sitting at the stop light at Toro. It's a single lane road. Mr. Benz comes up from behind at speed, sees the light turn green and pulls an illegal pass in the right hand turn lane. The MS launches at the light unaware that the MB is trying to pass him and his speed surprises and angers Mr. Benz (who thinks the MS is trying to cut him off). Mr. Benz stomps it and tosses coffee at the MS driver as an FU. MS driver is totally surprised to see a car fly by on his right (illegally) and an object is thrown at him which causes him to instinctually swerve away and strike the Honda. That could easily fit eyewitness reports.

How could two cars race side by side if there is only one lane? The Benz driver HAD to be going straight through the intersection in a turn lane.

Where did the coffee thing come from by the way? I didn't see it in any of the news reports...

 

[strider]

I'm getting tired of copying these, and these are only the lower-end body styles. There are at least 20 more with sub-5-second 0-60 times in the E, ML, S, SL, SLK, SLR, SLS classes, and even an R model.

Not just AMGs... plenty of regular benz's.

Those are all standing-start drag strip times with launch control. Translation: NOT REAL WORLD and useful only for bragging rights on the internet or with your buddies at the golf course. I can't be bothered to look it up but would bet that VERY few of those car's 5-60 times are faster than an MSP.

 

[jeff_adams]

Anything is possible Kevin, but the MB was on right hand side of the MS. If the MB was in the correct lane, the MS would have swung around on the right hand side of the MB and passed in the "merge" lane. That clearly didn't happen. The MB was in the merge lane.

 

[jeff_adams]

The coffee cup thing was mentioned by Velo1. It was posted in another forum discussing this accident.

 

[jomo25]

Another scenario:

Looking at a Satellite view, the driver of the MS could have been sitting at the stop light at Toro. It's a single lane road. Mr. Benz comes up from behind at speed, sees the light turn green and pulls an illegal pass in the right hand turn lane. The MS launches at the light unaware that the MB is trying to pass him and his speed surprises and angers Mr. Benz (who thinks the MS is trying to cut him off). Mr. Benz stomps it and tosses coffee at the MS driver as an FU. MS driver is totally surprised to see a car fly by on his right (illegally) and an object is thrown at him which causes him to instinctually swerve away and strike the Honda. That could easily fit eyewitness reports.

How could two cars race side by side if there is only one lane? The Benz driver HAD to be going straight through the intersection in a turn lane.

No way to know what happened. And I haven't looked at an aerial of the area. But from the descriptions, it sounds like no matter what, the Benz had to have gone straight on a right turn only lane, that in and of itself begins the chain reaction where tempers or surprise led to a fight for an assumed lane by the MS driver.

Now would that be enough for an MS owner to knowingly put him/herself into direct harm's way? I mean self-preservation is usually the first logic-based reaction. So, I have to assume that logic wasn't afforded here. I know for myself going into oncoming traffic would be a last resort. From the pics visibility isn't an issue, so I can not see how the MS driver would want to put him/herself into clear danger (I mean, what's more dangerous than a potential and likely head on collision? Why would anyone do this besides a subconscious gut reaction?)

To me it has to be one of 2 things:
1. An sudden act (like a thrown object or severe swerve to the left) by the Benz driver caught the MS driver by complete surprise to cause a gut reaction to swerve.
2. The MS driver simply lost control of their car trying to race or avoid the Benz.

I guess car malfunction of some sort is remotely possible, but data still should be analyzed to confirm.

 

[v12 to 12v]

Looks like this thread is ready for the "Off Topic" section.

 

[scriptacus]

...it sounds like no matter what, the Benz had to have gone straight on a right turn only lane...

As someone said earlier, it's possible the Mercedes turned right onto the road. There are no "no right on red" signs at this intersection.

Now would that be enough for an MS owner to knowingly put him/herself into direct harm's way? I mean self-preservation is usually the first logic-based reaction. So, I have to assume that logic wasn't afforded here. I know for myself going into oncoming traffic would be a last resort. From the pics visibility isn't an issue, so I can not see how the MS driver would want to put him/herself into clear danger (I mean, what's more dangerous than a potential and likely head on collision? Why would anyone do this besides a subconscious gut reaction?)

To me it has to be one of 2 things:
1. An sudden act (like a thrown object or severe swerve to the left) by the Benz driver caught the MS driver by complete surprise to cause a gut reaction to swerve.
2. The MS driver simply lost control of their car trying to race or avoid the Benz.

I guess car malfunction of some sort is remotely possible, but data still should be analyzed to confirm.

If you look at where the accident occurred, there's ~330 feet of full center lane between that location and the merge location. If the two were indeed duking it out during the merge the Tesla would have been driving in the center lane for a full 3-5 seconds depending on speed (60-80mph). However no official reports have stated if the 2 cars were side-by-side when the Tesla went into oncoming traffic. What is definitive (from photos at the scene) is that the accident occurred well after the merge completed.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm afraid this just isn't true. There are quite a few MB's that will do quite well in a race against a Model S. not just "a few". (and that's even asuming the MB didn't have a head start and the MS driver was truly trying hard from the start).

I believe the poster did say AMG models excluded (since those will be more rare). The only two on your list that are not AMG are the CL550, CL600, and the CL is a higher end model that doesn't sell particularly well in the first place (AKA rare).

The only somewhat common Mercedes with sub 5 second 0-60 is the e550. The others are mainly AMG models.

 

[JoshG]

Those are all standing-start drag strip times with launch control. Translation: NOT REAL WORLD and useful only for bragging rights on the internet or with your buddies at the golf course. I can't be bothered to look it up but would bet that VERY few of those car's 5-60 times are faster than an MSP.

OK, I've owned and driven plenty of performance MBs and I own a Tesla Model S Performance. I wouldn't trade my car for any of those (well maybe SLS/SLR ), but I've known quite a few that wouldn't have any trouble keeping up with the MSP driven by an average driver. More so if it weren't Performance MS.

Anyway, the point we've gotten away from (i'll take bulk of the blame) is that in the real world with drivers who may not be drag-racing with a perfect start and matching reaction times, with different skill levels and risk tolerance, who probably started at slightly different times, it's very conceivable (to me) that there are plenty of Mercedes Benz's (esp. in Laguna Beach) that could one way or the other be even with an MS at 60-70 MPH. driver skill, where/when each decided to punch it, how hard they punched it, tires, surface differences in the lanes, etc. I just disagree with the people saying there are very few cases where a Mercedes should have been aside the MSP if the drivers were showing off. There are plenty of fast MBs and in a non-dragstrip-Christmas-tree-light-start situation the cars don't have to match stats for the cars to end up at the same place at 60-70 mph.

But I've taken us off course with disputing the number of Benz's that can give the MS a run for its money. apologies, it probably belongs elsewhere. i'll let the forensic google-street-view teams continue the analysis.

 

[markwj]

This kind of behavior falls under various "Road Rage" laws that exist in many states. Your own neck of the wood has one: http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2012/03/jessica_rogers_law_setting_enh.html

It isn't a grey area thing because the laws deal with intent, not method. Any witness in your example above would see a car tailgating you followed by brake lights and extreme slowing. Regen would not be a factor. Yes, I understand you can go to court and try to make it one, but to do so you'd need to lie in front of the court. You can also lie and say you didn't want to run over a squirrel too... but that's not really the point; you can be found at fault if your actions are seen as malicious.

If someone is tailgating me, and I can't move out of the lane, my approach is to gradually reduce speed. In my view, that increases the safety by increasing the reaction time available to the tailgater (slower speed = longer time to react/stop). The alternatives of speeding up or maintaining speed are just going to make the situation dangerous should I be forced to brake rapidly due to road conditions.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

My Accord tuner buddy had this to say "That 92/93 Accord didn't fare too well in the frontal offset." "that wheel choice only came on 9293 Accord EXs"

So, 92/93 Accords.

That old car would have gotten decimated by anything new, not just MS. As well, in any newer high end car they likely would have survived.

The '92/'93 Accords only had a driver's side airbag from what I can recall. Neither occupant had any chance. A 4th Generation Accord only weighs 2800 lbs, vs. the Model S which is something like 4700 lbs.

Looks like Honda accords don't fair so well in head on collisions with EV's!
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Granada-Hills-Deadly-Fatal-Crash-200784711.html

Interestingly, this Accord is also a 4th Generation (1990-1993), judging by the tail lights. These older cars simply were not designed to handle collisions with larger and heavier vehicles. Sometime around the late 90's early 2000's, Honda began employing a technique called Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) to develop front frames that could handle collisions with taller cars/SUVs/Pickup trucks, and channel the massive collision forces away from vehicle occupants. They started selling vehicles equipped with these frames in the mid-2000's.

Cars like the 4th Gen Accord, which are 20+ years old now, are basically toast against bigger, heavier cars. The Volt may be "compact" in its exterior dimensions, but it weighs hundreds of pounds more than the largest Accord V6.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If someone is tailgating me, and I can't move out of the lane, my approach is to gradually reduce speed. In my view, that increases the safety by increasing the reaction time available to the tailgater (slower speed = longer time to react/stop). The alternatives of speeding up or maintaining speed are just going to make the situation dangerous should I be forced to brake rapidly due to road conditions.

There are a couple of "active" ways to respond to a tailgater without moving out of your lane. Slow down gradually, blip your brake, or "brake check" (slamming the brakes momentarily).

Slowing down gradually is totally legal (since you aren't really causing any danger, and you would be doing the same thing if you were preparing for an exit). Only do this though if you can't move to a slower lane (which is always the best option).

Blipping your brake (so the lights turn on but you don't really slow down) is of dubious legality. It's not as dangerous as slamming your brakes, but there's still a chance of causing the tailgater to have an accident (depending on his reaction).

"Brake check" (slamming the brakes) is pretty much illegal and dangerous (high probability of causing an accident, involving your own car too).

Speeding up doesn't help, because unless you plan to keep that speed, you will still be tailgated when you slow back down later on.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

When I tailgated someone on the freeway a long time ago, I got a finger out the window - no, not that one, but, actually two fingers indicating what I concluded was a way of reminding me of the 2-second rule for following. That might work too.

 

[vfx]

If tailgated and trapped I will slow down like Mark but also quickly speed up. Driving erratically frustrates the tailgater mentality even more than just slowing.

 

[constraint]

Finally got at least some view of the front of the tesla. It is an arial view above and slightly behind, but considering the damage on the Honda the S is in pretty good shape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgTcoT1yRo

Just such a sad story.

 

[logan]

Those are all standing-start drag strip times with launch control. Translation: NOT REAL WORLD and useful only for bragging rights on the internet or with your buddies at the golf course. I can't be bothered to look it up but would bet that VERY few of those car's 5-60 times are faster than an MSP.

Mercedes is notorious for underreporting 0-60 times. There are tons of Mercedes models that easily beat the Model S - P85 included. I've owned numerous MBs (C63, CLS63, S550, SL550, etc) and can tell you each one has easily beaten its reported 0-60 time.

 

[jdevo2004]

 

[Stoneymonster]

Exactly the kind of accident the frontal offset tests duplicate. Looks like they weren't lying when they told us they designed for it.