Tesla in Australia

[Gabz]

This is absolutely key for the future of EVs in Australia. There is not enough conversation and momentum behind EVs in Australia for a government mandated standard, and we're going to face ambiguity for a long time. It used to be that Tesla was Type 2, and everyone else was Type 1, but as more European brands bring out their European specced cars here, we'll start getting a mix of Type 1 and Type 2, even from the same company!! It's going to be chaos...

Type 1 Type 2 AC charging isn't chaos because it's the same communication protocol so you can convert from type 2 to type 1 with out any technical issues. you just need to encourage everyone to install type 2 socket devices.

The problem is fast charging where there are 3 different communication protocols CHAdeMO, CCS and telsa Superchargers and then CCS comes in 2 different plug types. The only ones which can be converted is chademo to Tesla supercharger.

 

[timpoo]

Type 1 Type 2 AC charging isn't chaos because it's the same communication protocol so you can convert from type 2 to type 1 with out any technical issues. you just need to encourage everyone to install type 2 socket devices.

The problem is fast charging where there are 3 different communication protocols CHAdeMO, CCS and telsa Superchargers and then CCS comes in 2 different plug types. The only ones which can be converted is chademo to Tesla supercharger.

You're thinking too much like an engineer Gabz For most people, having two types of plugs or more, whether it be AC or DC, and whether or not there are adapters available, will be too confusing.

Most people don't even know the difference between AC and DC charging.

Sure, after a long and sustained education campaign, you can convince them it's not a big deal - after all, you've got both Micro usb and lightning port for smartphones - but adoption rates will be curtailed when they otherwise shouldn't have.

It's also easy conceptually for everyone to carry around a cable and to plug in to the same socket, but in reality, people will see it as an inconvenience. Early adopters won't, and enthusiasts won't, but the mass market - the people we're really trying to convert - absolutely will see it as an inconvenience.

Unfortunately - I think the only way to really solve it is to have a unified solution in the Australian market - the government needs to choose: which standard do we go with. Until then, companies like ours will just end up installing one of each, which is ridiculously inefficient and just leads to more confusion.

 

[Gabz]

I'm not sure if there is that much inconvenience with getting out a cable especially for public charging, because it's not like we do it every time we park. At home maybe you do that daily at worse but when we talk about standard charging connections we are mainly concerned with public charging.

And I'll take the engineer comment as a complement.

 

[alexeiw123]

The inconvenience (for general non enthusiast consumers) is having to carry something in the car at all times. Something to consider every time there's passengers and/or luggage. Also, it's something that could be a major inconvenience should it go missing.

I can see the benefits of socket chargers though as well. For me, I'd be happy to carry a lead in the car.

 

[Dborn]

The system they have in the USA with Tesla supplying the adaptors, and them being rigid one piece castings, works. To have have adaptor cables is OK for most here on this forum, but for the wide world out there , I think not. This is back to the VHS/Betamax war all over again. You would think the manufacturers could have sorted this out ahead of time. Frankly, from what I have seen, the type 2 is a good compromise, a relatively compact plug, that is NOT from a car manufacturer. What Tesla did in the USA is crazy with a proprietary connector. Maybe they wanted to keep the superchargers exclusive, but they could still have achieved that with software, or even with hardwire connection changes in the car. The type 1 is bulky and ugly. Makes for large charge ports.

 

[timpoo]

The system they have in the USA with Tesla supplying the adaptors, and them being rigid one piece castings, works. To have have adaptor cables is OK for most here on this forum, but for the wide world out there , I think not. This is back to the VHS/Betamax war all over again. You would think the manufacturers could have sorted this out ahead of time. Frankly, from what I have seen, the type 2 is a good compromise, a relatively compact plug, that is NOT from a car manufacturer. What Tesla did in the USA is crazy with a proprietary connector. Maybe they wanted to keep the superchargers exclusive, but they could still have achieved that with software, or even with hardwire connection changes in the car. The type 1 is bulky and ugly. Makes for large charge ports.

The great thing about Type 2 is that you can use it for both AC and DC charging, as Tesla have done.

But almost every other EV in Australia atm is Type 1 for AC Charging...what to do what to do...

 

[WhiteStar]

The great thing about Type 2 is that you can use it for both AC and DC charging, as Tesla have done.

But almost every other EV in Australia atm is Type 1 for AC Charging...what to do what to do...

Yes Tim, I was thinking that Type 2 could become the de facto standard if Tesla got the network up soon enough. Now I'm not so sure that it's quite that simple with the possibility of other manufacturers gaining critical mass with an inferior standard.

 

[Afritek]

The system they have in the USA with Tesla supplying the adaptors, and them being rigid one piece castings, works. To have have adaptor cables is OK for most here on this forum, but for the wide world out there , I think not. This is back to the VHS/Betamax war all over again. You would think the manufacturers could have sorted this out ahead of time. Frankly, from what I have seen, the type 2 is a good compromise, a relatively compact plug, that is NOT from a car manufacturer. What Tesla did in the USA is crazy with a proprietary connector. Maybe they wanted to keep the superchargers exclusive, but they could still have achieved that with software, or even with hardwire connection changes in the car. The type 1 is bulky and ugly. Makes for large charge ports.

Sorry to ask a dumb question but aren't our cars fitted with type 2 - certainly they don't look like the US one - if so perhaps type 2 was not available when Tesla first came out and they only had type one and that other weird Japanese one as options? Probably the reason why they felt they needed to design an elegant solution. I'm not sure of the history though?

 

[lonewolf313]

Sorry to ask a dumb question but aren't our cars fitted with type 2 - certainly they don't look like the US one - if so perhaps type 2 was not available when Tesla first came out and they only had type one and that other weird Japanese one as options? Probably the reason why they felt they needed to design an elegant solution. I'm not sure of the history though?

From what I have learnt in the last 12 months as a member of ths forum is that the type 2 Mennekes plug was fitted as the choice of fitting in areas which people have more access to three phase power in residential areas (like Aust, NZ and Europe) whereas the US power grid is 110V and you don't see three phase power outside of heavy industry so Tesla did not need a fitting on their local cars to handle three phase power input

 

[timpoo]

I just learnt yesterday that every manufacturer other than Tesla and another one is sticking to Type 1 for AC charging. Guess that settles it for the moment then!

For DC charging - we'll continue to see Tesla Type 2 Socket proprietary, Chademo and CCS Combo Type 1.

Honestly - how does anybody expect a mass adoption of EVs with this kind of CRAP.

 

[alexeiw123]

I just learnt yesterday that every manufacturer other than Tesla and another one is sticking to Type 1 for AC charging. Guess that settles it for the moment then!

For DC charging - we'll continue to see Tesla Type 2 Socket proprietary, Chademo and CCS Combo Type 1.

Honestly - how does anybody expect a mass adoption of EVs with this kind of CRAP.

Well, with apple entering the EV game, we can probably add another non standard to that list! Ha! Anyone else picturing a fist sized lightning cable?

 

[Dborn]

Just taken delivery of a standard Tesla 19in wheel and Goodyear tyre to use as a spare. I did not put in a TPMS. I can confirm that it fits perfectly, inflated, into the froot. Remove the cargo net, place it outside face down and it is a snug but not tight fit. It rests on the ledge where the emergency switch is. it does not touch that, but i will likely make some sort of timber baffle to absolutely guarantee it won't foul the switch and produce a bonnet opening by mistake!!
By placing it upside down, you have the entire interior of the wheel to store a torque wrench, and jack, wrapped in something to stop rattling.
Not sure yet if i will carry it full time, but i feel a whole lot more confident now, given the number of punctures i have had over the years. I also have a 60cm breaker bar (Repco) so undoing the nuts should not be too hard.

 

[meloccom]

Just taken delivery of a standard Tesla 19in wheel and Goodyear tyre to use as a spare. I did not put in a TPMS. I can confirm that it fits perfectly, inflated, into the froot. Remove the cargo net, place it outside face down and it is a snug but not tight fit. It rests on the ledge where the emergency switch is. it does not touch that, but i will likely make some sort of timber baffle to absolutely guarantee it won't foul the switch and produce a bonnet opening by mistake!!
By placing it upside down, you have the entire interior of the wheel to store a torque wrench, and jack, wrapped in something to stop rattling.
Not sure yet if i will carry it full time, but i feel a whole lot more confident now, given the number of punctures i have had over the years. I also have a 60cm breaker bar (Repco) so undoing the nuts should not be too hard.

Hi Dborn, I'm thinking of doing the same, what are you using as a jack?

 

[alexeiw123]

Just taken delivery of a standard Tesla 19in wheel and Goodyear tyre to use as a spare. I did not put in a TPMS. I can confirm that it fits perfectly, inflated, into the froot. Remove the cargo net, place it outside face down and it is a snug but not tight fit. It rests on the ledge where the emergency switch is. it does not touch that, but i will likely make some sort of timber baffle to absolutely guarantee it won't foul the switch and produce a bonnet opening by mistake!!
By placing it upside down, you have the entire interior of the wheel to store a torque wrench, and jack, wrapped in something to stop rattling.
Not sure yet if i will carry it full time, but i feel a whole lot more confident now, given the number of punctures i have had over the years. I also have a 60cm breaker bar (Repco) so undoing the nuts should not be too hard.

I remember reading somewhere on TMC that the tesla has a very high torque setting on the wheel nuts, much more than can be applied with a wheel brace. Any truth to that? I couldn't come up with a reason for it and put it down to fiction myself...

 

[Dborn]

I have a small trolley jack, also purchased from Repco. The car weighs 2 tonnes, so a 1 - 1.5 tonne capacity should be fine. (I bought it for this car). I have used it when i installed my Alloygators. Worked perfectly. It fits nicely into the centre of the wheel and i just wrapped the handle end (all metal) in a microfibre cloth (extra cheap for a whole bag of them from Bunnings). The other end is two plastic wheels and the whole lot just fits firmly into the wheel well with no rattling. It is also very low profile and the car is very low to the ground, so a bottle jack which would have been my other choice, is not really a viable option. The trapezoidal wind up type are just too much like hard work. The pumping handle is in two parts which i have installed either side of the wheel forward, so they don't rattle, and the torque wrench in its plastic case fits inside the wheel as well. None of this stuff is especially expensive. The breaker bar and socket for the nuts slides between the wheel and the inside of the microwave. If any of this starts rattling, then my daughter will have a job to make an appropriate bag to hold everything. Actually, all this is crazy, it should be standard just as it is in all other cars i have owned.
I have cyclone wheels, but they are too expensive, so the standard rims such as on your car, Meloccom, are quite reasonable. Tesla does NOT recommend this because of crumple zone issues, but hey, I think the wheel may be an additional buffer.

Total cost, including everything approx 1 grand. The torque wrench was sourced on eBay.

Now, i will just cut myself a couple of wedges from some scrap timber i have lying around and also a bearing piece to protect the car from the jack, which will complete my emergency kit.

Also, just checked, because of the angle the wheel sits in, there is no possibility of the tyre fouling the emergency froot release. So, all is good!! You just lose the front as storage space, but many of us are scared of the dreaded froot crease anyway.

With this solution, a flat is just a PITA, but other than a TPMS warning which can safely be ignored if you use this, you can drive at normal speeds until it is convenient to have the affected tyre fixed. Incidentally, i do have a small compressor - an el cheapo i have had for years, which is in the boot to top up in emergency as well.

I will post a photo in due course of all this.

The car, with air suspension is now probably 50/50 balanced. I have decided to leave it all permanently aboard.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember reading somewhere on TMC that the tesla has a very high torque setting on the wheel nuts, much more than can be applied with a wheel brace. Any truth to that? I couldn't come up with a reason for it and put it down to fiction myself...

It is true, this why i went the breaker bar route. 60cm allows a huge amount of undoing torque to be applied!! Torque wrenches are geared to allow the set torque to be applied. 129 ft/lbs.

- - - Updated - - -

Incidentally, i was told today that the air suspension cars with 19in wheels have an air pressure of 45 psi. If they have coil springs then the figure is 42 psi, which may explain why my car was delivered with 42 psi, in error.

 

[Dborn]

The jack is a 1350Kg and the model is therefore a 1350, from Repco.

 

[moemoke]

If you have the air suspension are you able to change a wheel by using it, that's how you change a Citroen's wheel.
I think a future feature could be on board jacks, either elec or hydraulic or better still Tesla should invent a wheel/ tyre
that is all one piece (tyre bonded to wheel) with no air in it, it has a design life of 200,000k's and when it's worn out you buy a new wheel /tyre unit, surely in this day and age someone could develop a polymer tyre that would be better than rubber!

 

[Dborn]

Put the car in jack mode, place it in tow mode and chock the wheels. Then jack and change the wheel. Neutral allows a rear wheel to spin freely making access to the wheel lugs easier.

 

[Mark E]

Put the car in jack mode, place it in tow mode and chock the wheels. Then jack and change the wheel. Neutral allows a rear wheel to spin freely making access to the wheel lugs easier.

Remember to loosen the wheel nuts while the wheel is still on the ground, making it easier to undo tight bolts without the wheel spinning. Once replaced, tighten the wheel nuts to locate the wheel, then once again lower the car so that the wheel is on the ground so that you can get enough torque onto the wheel nuts.

 

[JOH]

I have a small trolley jack, also purchased from Repco. The car weighs 2 tonnes, so a 1 - 1.5 tonne capacity should be fine. (I bought it for this car). I have used it when i installed my Alloygators. Worked perfectly. It fits nicely into the centre of the wheel and i just wrapped the handle end (all metal) in a microfibre cloth (extra cheap for a whole bag of them from Bunnings). The other end is two plastic wheels and the whole lot just fits firmly into the wheel well with no rattling. It is also very low profile and the car is very low to the ground, so a bottle jack which would have been my other choice, is not really a viable option. The trapezoidal wind up type are just too much like hard work. The pumping handle is in two parts which i have installed either side of the wheel forward, so they don't rattle, and the torque wrench in its plastic case fits inside the wheel as well. None of this stuff is especially expensive. The breaker bar and socket for the nuts slides between the wheel and the inside of the microwave. If any of this starts rattling, then my daughter will have a job to make an appropriate bag to hold everything. Actually, all this is crazy, it should be standard just as it is in all other cars i have owned.
I have cyclone wheels, but they are too expensive, so the standard rims such as on your car, Meloccom, are quite reasonable. Tesla does NOT recommend this because of crumple zone issues, but hey, I think the wheel may be an additional buffer.

Total cost, including everything approx 1 grand. The torque wrench was sourced on eBay.

Now, i will just cut myself a couple of wedges from some scrap timber i have lying around and also a bearing piece to protect the car from the jack, which will complete my emergency kit.

Also, just checked, because of the angle the wheel sits in, there is no possibility of the tyre fouling the emergency froot release. So, all is good!! You just lose the front as storage space, but many of us are scared of the dreaded froot crease anyway.

With this solution, a flat is just a PITA, but other than a TPMS warning which can safely be ignored if you use this, you can drive at normal speeds until it is convenient to have the affected tyre fixed. Incidentally, i do have a small compressor - an el cheapo i have had for years, which is in the boot to top up in emergency as well.

I will post a photo in due course of all this.

The car, with air suspension is now probably 50/50 balanced. I have decided to leave it all permanently aboard.

- - - Updated - - -

It is true, this why i went the breaker bar route. 60cm allows a huge amount of undoing torque to be applied!! Torque wrenches are geared to allow the set torque to be applied. 129 ft/lbs.

- - - Updated - - -

Incidentally, i was told today that the air suspension cars with 19in wheels have an air pressure of 45 psi. If they have coil springs then the figure is 42 psi, which may explain why my car was delivered with 42 psi, in error.

Sounds and looks like a good solution DBorn. Maybe a dumb question, but wouldn't an auto club (e.g, RACQ, RACV) be a simpler solution?