My understanding is the horrible wiper controls were on the 3's. The wipers would really well on our Model Y.Tesla suffers from all the problems of the rest of the modern software/tech industry. Particularly relevant here are: shipping incomplete/broken products and 'fixing' them with OTA updates, arbitrary UI changes to 'keep it fresh' (but actually just pissing off a bunch of your owners), too much (unchallenged) product decision-making from the top, seemingly no usability testing, and trying to maintain an iron grip on their products after sale (hence fighting right-to-repair).
Minimalism is great as a guiding design/engendering principle, but there are clearly ways to drastically overdo it. I would say Tesla went about 10% too far with the minimalism in the Model 3/Y (mostly with the horrible wiper controls), but unfortunately have probably gone about 60% too far with the refreshed S. How do I know they are either not doing usability testing or not listening to the testing they are doing? Because they would not be shipping products and software with so many bone-headed design elements (especially in the last 10 months) if they were.
To give some balance though, at least on the software Tesla is still better than most/all of the OEMs in overall quality and design. But that is an incredibly low bar frankly. And they are still trying to solve a lot of problems with software that would be far better off done in a dumb hardware way. That is the Silicon Valley way though unfortunately.
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Tesla is an AWFUL software company
- Thread starter Jigglypuff
- Start date
My understanding is the horrible wiper controls were on the 3's. The wipers would really well on our Model Y.
Yeah not sure how an adapter for the car for your cable so it can work with ChargePoint and other charging stations while you are out is a software issue. It’s like your phone cable using one usb type over another and any person can walk up and unplug your cell phone and steal it if you turn your nose.
I think Tesla is a pretty phenomenally good software company. Just compare them to their big competitors, Ford and VW. They are miles ahead. I’ve used the menu system in a Mach-E, and it is so much worse. You might argue that you don’t like their particular UI design, but UI design sensibilities are very different issue from the quality of the underlying software.
smogne41
Active Member
The 3 and Y have exactly the same wiper controls. The manual speed settings are what are bad (the wiper card that auto-hides after a few seconds). Just some people are happy with the auto wipers and some are not. That mostly depends on where/when you need them. Moderate rain in the daytime or well-lit areas they are generally fine. In any unlit night-time areas they are essentially worthless. That makes sense since they are camera-based (no rain sensor). No light = no data.
It could be depending on when you started with the Model 3 wipers: Tesla releases auto wiper update trained by new deep neural net
We picked our us in July of 2020. Living a rural part of Maine we don't have street lights and the auto control works brilliantly.
smogne41
Active Member
I have had my car since 2018, but we all have that updated wiper software. I live in rural PA, they are still crap for me at night unfortunately. Better than when I got the car for sure, but not 'good'.
Just because some are worse doesn't mean any of them are good. I don't mean that to sound cynical or snarky. I just think were as the starting point of car cockpit redesign ideas and implementation. It only makes sense that at first, this stuff isn't going to be very good. I'm personally willing to cut everyone a break right now, as long as they're not delivering this.
We have had hints that Tesla's software development processes may not be great. There have been regressions, like a few versions where the heated steering wheel stopped working with no related changes, that strongly suggest this. (Or more recently, viewing the user manual causing the entire MCU to reboot.)
If you’re using the original charging cable it has a circle on top of the handle which unlocks the charge port when you’re connected and also if your phone is in your pocket and connected to the car as usual, sounds like you’re using a third party charger or cable with the tesla adapter. Part of what you’re saying is you don’t know how to use the car. Another part is correct, their are software bugs and issues. But then you shouldn’t own a tesla, there is a reason why they have updates and why all software companies do, these things happen. I had two expensive bmw’s before this and they had their fair share of issues too. Take a deep breath and think about your next vehicle choice, maybe you’re better off with a minivan thay has no updates and comes with whatever it comes with.
I disagree. I'm in IT, and your post sounds like a rant i would post about Microsoft, Apple, Google. Especially Microsoft... the one thing they are great at, is breaking things that previously have worked well. They either break features functionally, or absolutely. For Tesla as a car company AND a software company, with an emphasis on software, i think they do pretty darn good compared to the "experts"
I don't have my Tesla yet, but i had a 24 hour demo, and i put the software thru it's paces in all the ways i could think of in that time. Were certain things annoying? Check. Did some things not work? (Thinking user manual crash). Check. Did some things just seem stupid like what the hell were they thinking? Check. Sounds like typical software from ANY company to me, but miles ahead of what it COULD be. I hope to GOD they never enter into a partnership with Microsoft. If you want to see a clusterf*ck, wait to see that collaboration.
I think cars with so much software that they are described as laptops on wheels, is the ultimate in stupidity. But i'm really a car guy more than a computer guy. I hate the personal tracking, data sucking, camera spying society that we live in. I hate software change for the sake of change with the inevitable reductions in functionality and intuitiveness. My ideal car would be an EV devoid of software entirely, with the power and range and comfort of a Tesla. But that's not gonna happen.
Tesla is best of breed in a screwed up world. And when you get behing the wheel, you forget about the screwed up world.
smogne41
Active Member
50% too far on the minimalism front. I really don't think they're better at software than the OEMs. I think that's just a thing people say, not based on facts. Every other car I've driven has better infotainment layouts, even the early I-Drive system from BMW. I do prefer the old button way, I suppose. Even my Scion radio, pre-touchscreen, can access my playlist on the phone, and I typically use the phone for directions too.
They don't always ask like one.
Na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye! I only 5 Teslas. 4 powerwalls and a 2021 Model Y LR AWD.
The Palm OS was perfectly intuitive, albeit feature poor. Heck, I even had a color Kyocera smartphone with a basic web browser back in the day. I experienced far less frustration.
They can steal it by unplugging the charger cable first. That leaves the adapter temporarily unlocked. There are locks on ebay, but they're supposedly useless. I think Tesla should have gone with SAE on this one.
I've only used older Ford and VW systems (not counting Audi), and they worked fine. Intuitive at least to me. Easy to set up. I have not sat in or used a Mach-E system. It's ugly. I forgot to mention how simple and clean the Polestar system is.
There is an aftermarket solution for the wiper garbage. Ingenext.ca.
I had issues with my BMWs too, especially the 528i. However, the interfaces were easy to use and intuitive. I'm just focused on software here, and Tesla does an awful job. The problem with Tesla is not the updates. It's just poor interface design and bugginess that likely come from their awful management. Their motor and battery team certainly kick ass.
I think Apple went downhill every since OS X. Even as it is more powerful and modern, the interface is lacking. I used to be a major Mac fan, like diehard, but they lost their way on the Mac front. Windows 10 is significantly easier to use than OS X now. My dad went from years of Mac OS confusion to Windows 10. A tiny bit of help here and there, and he's not only using everything, it's easier too. Also LG Gram hardware is superior to Mac hardware and for less (though not much less) money. Google? Easier than iOS, at least. When they make a UI change, they often allow going back to the old way, like with the home and back buttons disappearing. I gotta say, the new system sucked at first, but now I prefer it by far. All these car companies are software companies now, but it's been that way for a while. So I disagree with your first paragraph.
Windows CE isn't the best. It's slow. However, it varies widely on implementation. For all its flaws, the Jaguar system on our I-Pace is still better than the Tesla system. Also, they have added physical controls. Sooooo nice. Soooo much better.
I'm a car and a computer guy, since I was 16. I don't think cars should have all these touchscreens and such. They're bad for car interfaces. Screens are often useful, though. I do wonder if I should have splurged for the Taycan, but the Y is already too wide and too long as it is. I'd have gone for a 3 if I could have gotten in and out without hitting my head each time, and if it had a hatch. Plus, if I head for a long drive, I do want a Supercharger network.
The Teslas are flawed, end stop. They do have their advantages, but that's for another thread.
My general rule is: if you don't like the UI design, just wait 2 years and they will redo it all and you will have a new set of things to not like.
UI is hard. It is one of the things I would pretty much refuse to do as a software engineer. But, mostly because I hate re-writing something 10x just because of (mostly pointless) design changes.
There are definitely things in the Tesla UI that are difficult to find, but I think that is true of any sufficiently complex UI. Once it has a large enough number of options it is difficult to start grouping them in a logical way that is logical for every person who uses it. Probably the best thing they could do is have a search feature that searches every possible setting\screen, similar to Android settings app. Then it is just a matter of knowing what to search for... sometimes a similarly complex task.
UI is hard. It is one of the things I would pretty much refuse to do as a software engineer. But, mostly because I hate re-writing something 10x just because of (mostly pointless) design changes.
There are definitely things in the Tesla UI that are difficult to find, but I think that is true of any sufficiently complex UI. Once it has a large enough number of options it is difficult to start grouping them in a logical way that is logical for every person who uses it. Probably the best thing they could do is have a search feature that searches every possible setting\screen, similar to Android settings app. Then it is just a matter of knowing what to search for... sometimes a similarly complex task.
The “Polestar system” is actually Google Android Auto which is what the E-Tron, Tycan and soon all new ford electric cars will run said OS. Fun fact the Mach E runs on Windows vista. Last but not least, almost none of the OEM make their infotaiment systems. Panasonic makes “Ford Sync” Harman International makes the “iDrive system” and pretty much the rest of the industry while Tesla’s is built in house based on Linux embedded system. Hence why Tesla is able to move much faster than the rest of the industry.
Volkswagen groups acknowledged this and their started project 2025 to move to a single stack powered by Android Auto.
Why complain about the wiper controls at all? Can't you you figure out how to push the Rt button and say "Wipers Faster, (or slower, or Off)? It's mind boggling how people use Alexa or Siri, but fail to use 150 Tesla voice commands. Even CR is in the dark.
smogne41
Active Member
Very true. Sometimes the voice command just errors out. Mostly it hears my California accent wrong.
I don't think UI is that hard. Automotive controls were solved until the advent of touchscreens. Then the frustration level went way up. Even then, the Ram system is intuitive and easy. I-Drive was a bit rough early on, but it got good around 2008, and it got great after that.
I don't know if I'd say that Tesla moves faster. Perhaps more recklessly. They do push a lot of updates out, but they're not exactly major improvements. My last update didn't make a difference that I could see other than being able to see battery left by percentage.
I highly doubt that is true, mostly because Microsoft hasn’t supported Vista with any updates (especially security) for years and also i am pretty sure I read it runs QNX like a lot of embedded car systems right now.
Yep, you’re correct! It’s running QNX, I just checked again and it’s running Sync 3. Sync 2 and below run windows CE which was last updated on June 2013.
As a software developer I would agree to this statement, but what most people don’t realize is that doing UX (user experience) is hard.
The beautiful UI we see in our phones are work put together by a user researcher based on AB test or some sort and then given to a designer who puts the final touches (as in colour e.t.c)
Last but not least a software engineer will code the wire mock to render the final product.
We have a sayin at work that says “all softwares” are beta softwares, I think Tesla engineers might use the same motto since they also use “agile methodology”
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