Tesla legal claims MCU is a wearable part, like tires

[whitex]

I think Audi and Porsche need to drive their vehicles a few million more miles.

Consumer Reports Pulled Recommendation of Porsche Taycan, Other EVs Over Electric 'Growing Pains'

E-Tron Complaints, Issues And Problems

Looks Like Porsche Taycans Have Huge Quality Issues

Did you notice how the last article you quoted is not by someone who owns the car, or even knows who the owner it, but simply took a picture in the parking lot? It might have been a rebuilt car, or one that was recently in an accident and owner chose to keep driving while waiting for the body shop, or perhaps the owner chose to not report the accident since the car drives (I knew a person like that, driving a $100K+ Merc with duct taped bumper (and cable ties) for almost 2 years - accident happened when the car just over a year old, they returned the leased car with the duct tape). Perhaps this is why Tesla doesn't want to allow people to fix their cars, so they don't do it badly and someone who goes on twitter with random snapshots then blames Tesla for making a bad product.

Based on my prior experience with Porsche, if a car they sold me developed this level of problems, I'd have the option to be in a Porsche loaner while they are fixing it or ordering me a new car. Tesla used to be this way, today they'd tell you it happened because the car was exposed to sunlight and oxygen, or perhaps that the doors and trim are wearable consumables.

 

[SO16]

Did you notice how the last article you quoted is not by someone who owns the car, or even knows who the owner it, but simply took a picture in the parking lot? It might have been a rebuilt car, or one that was recently in an accident and owner chose to keep driving while waiting for the body shop, or perhaps the owner chose to not report the accident since the car drives (I knew a person like that, driving a $100K+ Merc with duct taped bumper (and cable ties) for almost 2 years - accident happened when the car just over a year old, they returned the leased car with the duct tape). Perhaps this is why Tesla doesn't want to allow people to fix their cars, so they don't do it badly and someone who goes on twitter with random snapshots then blames Tesla for making a bad product.

Based on my prior experience with Porsche, if a car they sold me developed this level of problems, I'd have the option to be in a Porsche loaner while they are fixing it or ordering me a new car. Tesla used to be this way, today they'd tell you it happened because the car was exposed to sunlight and oxygen, or perhaps that the doors and trim are wearable consumables.

Plenty more examples available.

Porsche and Audi are not infallible like you seem to portray.

Im not saying that gives Tesla a pass. Not by a long shot. Tesla has made plenty of stupid mistakes. And service has declined for many (although I have had great luck with them.) Just keeping things in perspective with your Porsche/Audi comparisons.

 

[whitex]

Plenty more examples available.

Porsche and Audi are not infallible like you seem to portray.

Im not saying that gives Tesla a pass. Not by a long shot. Tesla has made plenty of stupid mistakes. And service has declined for many (although I have had great luck with them.) Just keeping things in perspective with your Porsche/Audi comparisons.

Perhaps I was not communicating my point clearly. Nobody is infallible. The two major differences between Porsche and Toyota:

1. Porsche has more experience in making lasting designs
2. Porsche had much better parts and service organization

When I bought my first 2 Tesla's, I knew I was getting into an early adopter car, so it was not a great surprise that I had to spend more time in service than with any other cars I owned. The 3rd and 4th Tesla I was surprised that 5 years later each car required multiple service visits within the first 4 months of ownership, but Tesla service was always stellar, they fixed everything and provided Tesla loaners (no, I never got a P100D loaner, but 75D, 85, 85D, P85). I usually could get in within a week or so, or next day if the problem prevented the car from driving. That all changed once Model 3/Y floods came. I also had one Tesla in a major accident, which gave me a preview of the crash repair picture (2 weeks in the queue to just get an estimate, then checked a month later and the line was 6-8 weeks, during which by the way most insurance companies are just waiting and unable to do anything). Then Model 3 came and with it Elon's focus on profit, and I had Tesla Service tell me with a straight face that a yellowing main screen on a less than one year old car is "normal wear and tear" (the appointment was scheduled a month in advance, it was the soonest appointment available at the time). I was used their marketing/advertising lies, but I just learned to double check all specs and never ever buy any future features of Tesla. But now that the same ludicrous BS came to service, no way around it (like not paying for vaporware or fake specs).

 

[SO16]

Perhaps I was not communicating my point clearly. Nobody is infallible. The two major differences between Porsche and Toyota:

1. Porsche has more experience in making lasting designs
2. Porsche had much better parts and service organization

When I bought my first 2 Tesla's, I knew I was getting into an early adopter car, so it was not a great surprise that I had to spend more time in service than with any other cars I owned. The 3rd and 4th Tesla I was surprised that 5 years later each car required multiple service visits within the first 4 months of ownership, but Tesla service was always stellar, they fixed everything and provided Tesla loaners (no, I never got a P100D loaner, but 75D, 85, 85D, P85). I usually could get in within a week or so, or next day if the problem prevented the car from driving. That all changed once Model 3/Y floods came. I also had one Tesla in a major accident, which gave me a preview of the crash repair picture (2 weeks in the queue to just get an estimate, then checked a month later and the line was 6-8 weeks, during which by the way most insurance companies are just waiting and unable to do anything). Then Model 3 came and with it Elon's focus on profit, and I had Tesla Service tell me with a straight face that a yellowing main screen on a less than one year old car is "normal wear and tear" (the appointment was scheduled a month in advance, it was the soonest appointment available at the time). I was used their marketing/advertising lies, but I just learned to double check all specs and never ever buy any future features of Tesla. But now that the same ludicrous BS came to service, no way around it (like not paying for vaporware or fake specs).

Let’s hope Porsche has more experience. Been around since 1948. Tesla: 2003.

Tesla has made mistakes. Yellow screen now easily fixed. EMMC now easily fixed. Life goes on.

 

[phaphaphooey]

Did you notice how the last article you quoted is not by someone who owns the car, or even knows who the owner it, but simply took a picture in the parking lot? It might have been a rebuilt car, or one that was recently in an accident and owner chose to keep driving while waiting for the body shop, or perhaps the owner chose to not report the accident since the car drives (I knew a person like that, driving a $100K+ Merc with duct taped bumper (and cable ties) for almost 2 years - accident happened when the car just over a year old, they returned the leased car with the duct tape). Perhaps this is why Tesla doesn't want to allow people to fix their cars, so they don't do it badly and someone who goes on twitter with random snapshots then blames Tesla for making a bad product.

Based on my prior experience with Porsche, if a car they sold me developed this level of problems, I'd have the option to be in a Porsche loaner while they are fixing it or ordering me a new car. Tesla used to be this way, today they'd tell you it happened because the car was exposed to sunlight and oxygen, or perhaps that the doors and trim are wearable consumables.

I love Porsche and find Tesla fairly abhorrent as to how they treat their customers. You are right that the Porsche experience is almost universally better. However, Porsche has screwed their customers before too and refused to fix or even acknowledge an issue, sparking significant litigation. Look up the IMS issue on 996/997 911s that ran from 1999-2008. A significant amount of engines would essentially grenade themselves when the IMS failed.

 

[whitex]

Tesla has made mistakes. Yellow screen now easily fixed. EMMC now easily fixed. Life goes on.

My P85D would need to produce 50% more power to met the advertised spec... but it never will... Tesla ripped me off and got away with it using a lame-ass excuse... life goes on.... they have and will screw others too... life will go on... until Tesla screws enough people so people stop buying into the lies. Then again, Trump managed to hang onto a decent legion of blind supporters, perhaps Elon will too.

 

[SO16]

My P85D would need to produce 50% more power to met the advertised spec... but it never will... Tesla ripped me off and got away with it using a lame-ass excuse... life goes on.... they have and will screw others too... life will go on... until Tesla screws enough people so people stop buying into the lies. Then again, Trump managed to hang onto a decent legion of blind supporters, perhaps Elon will too.

Would be great if Tesla would offer a reasonable battery replacement option for those affected. I don’t see that happening anytime soon though. Electrified garage has swapped in bigger batteries though from salvage.

At least now I can buy a car that’s MUCH better than mine for quite a bit less than I paid. Sure, my car value went down significantly but the new car value (to me) went up.

My life is also finite. I try not to let a bad experience consume me for years.

 

[boonedocks]

cant wait for Lexus to come out with a 100% electric vehicle

My wife still says the same thing about BMW....once we sold our last ‘7er to buy our first 2015 S 85D....

 

[TMThree]

It's an interesting argument, and one I'd consider technically correct. eMMCs indeed have finite lifespans and published expected write cycles / MTBF. They don't last forever and nobody should be surprised by that.

Aside from English car companies, I don't think the general public expects the car's electronics to last a shorter time than the wear components like transmission, motors, battery, etc.

And if you look at anything else the public touches with similar flash memory, the expected lifespan is going to be like 20 years. The issue with Tesla was excessive writes on a small drive. If you want more life, you use a larger drive so it can wear level across more cells.

 

[ucmndd]

Aside from English car companies, I don't think the general public expects the car's electronics to last a shorter time than the wear components like transmission, motors, battery, etc.

And if you look at anything else the public touches with similar flash memory, the expected lifespan is going to be like 20 years. The issue with Tesla was excessive writes on a small drive. If you want more life, you use a larger drive so it can wear level across more cells.

Did you bother to read the rest of my post or just stop at the part you wanted to disagree with?

 

[TMThree]

Let’s hope Porsche has more experience. Been around since 1948. Tesla: 2003.

Tesla has made mistakes. Yellow screen now easily fixed. EMMC now easily fixed. Life goes on.

Having owned several Porsches in the past, Porsche reliability has been garbage for most of its lifespan.

Its only after having Japanese firms come over and redesign their manufacturing and design processes that their reliability improved.

The number of SERIOUS mechanical issues in any Tesla is massively better than Porsche's lifetime average.

 

[TMThree]

Did you bother to read the rest of my post or just stop at the part you wanted to disagree with?

You didn't articulate or explain your logic in your previous statement; I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing, while adding why this was Tesla's fault and no one should expect their MCU to die this fast.

Maybe take a chill pill.

 

[ucmndd]

Did you consider that you didn't articulate WHY in your statement, and that I was agreeing, not disagreeing with you?

Ok, now I’m more convinced you didn’t actually read what I read. The post continues:

The actual argument here is whether or not it's reasonable/responsible for Tesla to spec a "wear item" like this that has no chance of lasting even a fraction of the usable service life of the car. I think the answer to that is no, it's clearly not reasonable.

This seems identical to the point you’re making - “… I don't think the general public expects the car's electronics to last a shorter time than the wear components like transmission, motors, battery, etc”

You might need to consider your phrasing if you expect people to interpret the exchange above as vigorous agreement.

Be cool dawg.

 

[Matias]

Anything can then be considered a wear item using the same argument.

Photons and electrons are stable

 

[dipper]

I want to be a Toyota/Lexus customer again. Come on, make one already.

I still love the story of Toyota and dealer constantly reopening a ticket (for a Tesla motor replacement) to help their customer with a Rav4EV. Tesla kept closing the ticket and did not want to pay for the replacement.

As a Rav4EV owner, the only problems with that CUV are made by Tesla. The Toyota parts are great. When this car's extended warranty goes, it will be replaced. So come on Toyota, I want something more than a PHEV.

 

[viper2ko]

I want to be a Toyota/Lexus customer again. Come on, make one already.

I still love the story of Toyota and dealer constantly reopening a ticket (for a Tesla motor replacement) to help their customer with a Rav4EV. Tesla kept closing the ticket and did not want to pay for the replacement.

As a Rav4EV owner, the only problems with that CUV are made by Tesla. The Toyota parts are great. When this car's extended warranty goes, it will be replaced. So come on Toyota, I want something more than a PHEV.

If other companies could match the efficiency/tech id switch. Taycan looks great but the value is pretty bad. IMO lucid has my eye. They seem to be on par with Tesla for efficiency and tech. I've found as much as i thought the supercharger network was a must. I rarely use it unless i go on a trip.

 

[TMThree]

You might need to consider your phrasing if you expect people to interpret the exchange above as vigorous agreement.

You didn't provide any reason for your statement. I guess you didn't know how NAND wears. It's cool, not everyone knows what they're talking about.

 

[ucmndd]

You didn't provide any reason for your statement. I guess you didn't know how NAND wears. It's cool, not everyone knows what they're talking about.

Yeah, for real.

“eMMCs indeed have finite lifespans and published expected write cycles / MTBF” is a SUPER different and less-informed statement than your “the issue with Tesla was excessive writes on a small drive.”

I’m glad we had you here to set us all straight by quoting a post from 5 pages ago to argue with but also apparently completely agree with by saying the same thing in different words.

 

[whitex]

My life is also finite. I try not to let a bad experience consume me for years.

I don't expect to live forever either. For years I would tell people if they can afford a Tesla they should buy one. After I got burned though, I'm just trying to undo the damage I caused by warning people via sharing my story. Call it a double edge sword of marketing via passionate customers. Perhaps I would have gotten bored of it, but I have to come here to find out about any deficiencies, bugs, or service bulletins for the 2 Teslas I still own, because Tesla still doesn't have a place to check, or often tried to hide it. So while I'm here, I warn people of Tesla history and they latest stunts like the one this thread is about.

 

[SO16]

I don't expect to live forever either. For years I would tell people if they can afford a Tesla they should buy one. After I got burned though, I'm just trying to undo the damage I caused by warning people via sharing my story. Call it a double edge sword of marketing via passionate customers. Perhaps I would have gotten bored of it, but I have to come here to find out about any deficiencies, bugs, or service bulletins for the 2 Teslas I still own, because Tesla still doesn't have a place to check, or often tried to hide it. So while I'm here, I warn people of Tesla history and they latest stunts like the one this thread is about.

Okay. “Undo the damage”. Sure.