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Tesla Model S Fast Charging From An E-Station Via A CHAdeMO Adaptor. It Works!

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by ElectricAutos, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. ElectricAutos

    ElectricAutos Member

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    Check out the E-Station Facebook page for photos of a Tesla Model S fast charging from a E-Station via a CHAdeMO adaptor. It Works!

    Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/estation.oz

    You could put one in the garage. Just tell the Missus it came free with the car!
     
  2. JOH

    JOH Member

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    Where can we find a CHAdeMO adaptor? Any ideas of cost/availability/timeframe?
     
  3. ElectricAutos

    ElectricAutos Member

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    Call Tesla Australia.
     
  4. raynewman

    raynewman Member

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    HA! or 'soon'
     
  5. Mark E

    Mark E Member

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    More like where can you find a place to plug in a CHADeMO adapter.
     
  6. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    @ElectricAutos I've wondered if it would be difficult to make a J1772 to Mennekes type 2 adapter with a similar form factor to the J1772 to Tesla adapter that comes with all USA specification Model S. Have you ever considered this?
     
  7. JOH

    JOH Member

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    There are a couple of free spots in Brisbane. Charge Point are buying a number of the Tritium Veefil stations, which should all have CHAdeMO. Until the Supercharger network expands, this may be a good back up to have handy.
     
  8. Mark E

    Mark E Member

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    Except that it's unlikely that you'd need 50kW charging around the metro area, and the Chargers are placed where they'd be useful for EVs with limited range. I suspect that by the time CHADeMO gets more chargers, there will be even more superchargers. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and very happy to see CHADeMO stations proliferate.
     
  9. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Frankly, i would prefer to see a single charging standard introduced. Not just here but around the world. Whatever standard is chosen, i am sure it would not be a big deal to change our chargeports to suit, in conjunction with a software update.
     
  10. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    IMHO, the whole world should use the inlet you already have.
     
  11. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    The Chargepoint deal is in the US though.
     
  12. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    NRMA have CHADEMO chargers at 2 of their Motorserve centres, one at 9 George Street, North Strathfield and the second one at 62 Athlon Street Tuggeranong, however I'm not sure of their hours of availability.
     
  13. MDK

    MDK Aussie Member

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    I received my CHAdeMO adapter from Tesla on Friday. $550 inc GST plus shipping

    This is me testing it out at the University Club of WA fast charger which is a Tritium Veefil

    I started at 32% and charged to 60% in 30 minutes, 22kWh added (109km of typical range)

    20150327_162835.jpg
    20150327_165807.jpg 20150327_165818.jpg
     
  14. Johnwill

    Johnwill Member

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    #14 Johnwill, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
    Nice to see the VeeFill in use. Hopefully their recent success, in the US, means you will also see more in your own home market throughout Australia.

    Tritium takes charge in US electric car market

    Tritium is what is being used for NZ's first DC Rapid Network (Charge.Net) offering both CHAdeMO and CCS at each station.
     
  15. Johnwill

    Johnwill Member

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    #15 Johnwill, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
    Your charge port is already a dominant standard. What all of you should be doing, as owners, is lobbying for more Type 2 and less J1772 infrastructure.

    The reasons are:

    Type 1
    Only single phase.
    Only has tethered cables for which you need other adaptors if your car is Type 2.
    Limited to only supplying 7kW.
    At 32A (1phase 7kW) it takes almost 4 hours to put 100km of range into a battery.
    All European cars (e.g BMW) need to be modified to have this charge port.
    Type 1 cars need a second charge port for Rapid DC.
    J1772 is designed for 110/220V but Australia has a 230/400V network.

    Type 2
    Can be single or three phase.
    Has a socket so each car carries one lead, Type 2 to whatever the car is. No adaptor.
    Can supply over 22kW.
    At 32A (3phase 22kW) it takes only 1 hour to put 100km of range into a battery.
    Standard in European cars.
    Type 2 CCS can combine both AC an Rapid DC in a single charge port.
    Type 2 is designed for 230/400V networks, like Australia's.

    If you leave the decisions of public charging to car dealers and politicians you will end up with a network that is only good for Nissan Leafs. Despite the Model S range, home charging and more public Rapid DC chargers appearing in the future; you still need a decent public AC charging network to fill in the blanks. Being proactive in the beginning is vital, as a software patch won't fix it.
     
  16. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    I agree with most of what you have said John - including the fact that Type 2 is the superior standard - but a few things need to be clarified just so people don't think that currently available infrastructure is useless:

    1. As consumers, we are not only beholden to car dealers and government, but also to the car brands themselves. In Australia, all the major car manufacturers apart from Tesla and Renault have opted for J1772 - and that was a very recent decision. So if you are planning on building out public infrastructure - it's a very hard call to say "well stuff the car brands we're going with Type 2".

    2. J1772 can supply up to 80A or 19.2kW, which should be enough for AC charging

    3. People who use public AC chargers are very rarely doing it to "fill up to full" - so I would argue that charging time is actually less important than DC. AC is more about convenience charging to supplement home and work charging.

    4. European cars do not need to be modified to have this charge port in Australia - BMW for example brings in their i3 and i8 with J1772 as the standard plug

    5. J1772 can also be socket based - that's not limited to Type 2
     
  17. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Tim, given the number of charge ports reported to have been changed in the USA, it seems to be a very easy process, and probably the same would apply to the brands using J1772. A change of standard to a superior one such as type 2 which covers all levels of charging and just requires the carrying of the appropriate adaptor cable for your vehicle as John suggests, really seems to make a whole lot of sense to me. So, there are 2 options right there. It will come down to numbers, i guess. What ports are Prius and Mitsubishi using? J1772? That may well become an issue since there are a lot of Prius out there and very few Tesla by comparison. Should Tesla take over then that would be a different matter. Actually, the car makers need to get together and decide on a standard. It is a pity Tesla did not go with type 2 in North America, because now that puts them in a weak position.
    It is not just the shopping centre chargers. What about the destination chargers? It would make installing them a whole more attractive if the provider knew he was servicing all the cars out there and not just a single brand. The Tesla wall connector, even with J1772 would not be suitable for those vehicles only capable of taking a low current. Unless, of course they have nimble software able to automatically limit what the wall connector supplies in the same way that Tesla does.
    I mean i have an adaptor and used it at my local centre the other day. 7Kw! Yes, if I was parking there for 2 or 3 hours. I was there less than an hour. got about15Km out of it. Hardly worth the bother.
     
  18. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    Hi David - for AC charging, you can have either J1772 or 62196-2 (type 2) it doesn't really matter, as you would just carry an adapter cable. But to answer your question - yes Prius and Mitsubishi, as well as Porsche, Audi, BMW, Chevrolet/Holden (and future Mercedes as far as I know) all use J1772 for Australia. For destination charging - the Tesla wall connector only works with Tesla cars, and that's not going to change any time soon.

    But in any case, the real question is not so much what plug AC chargers should have, but how it feeds into DC charging.

    Whilst I completely agree that all manufacturers should just switch to Type 2 for AC/DC charging, it simply won't happen in the short to medium term. That's because there are three competing standards at the DC level - CCS Combo vs CHademo vs Type 2 (four if you count China).

    Japanese brands prefer Chademo, US/Europe prefer CCS, Tesla prefers Type 2 and China prefers its own. There are big lobby groups trying to win the IP game on this front, and have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into trying to make their standard superior and THE standard. To some extent, it's up to governments to settle the dispute - as Germany is proposing.

    Anyway - the point is yes we all want one standard for AC - but there are more factors at play. In any case, it would be easy to swap out Type 1 for Type 2 chargers if it's called for - much more expensive on the DC side.
     
  19. Johnwill

    Johnwill Member

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    #19 Johnwill, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
    Hi Tim,

    1. What we have found is that car dealers, government and the car brands themselves don't really have a clue. It is early days in EV uptake for both our countries so change is easier if you make it happen yourself.

    2. Yes but 80A on single phase is not practical for most establishments were as 32A 3 phase is easy for a lot of commercial premises.

    3. People want destination charging as much as they want rapid on route charging.

    4. I meant modified from how the are made in their country of manufacture. i3 and i8 are Type 2 in Europe. A classic example of how the local representatives of car brands have no clue. They have taken what is a fast charging vehicle and made it less efficient. i3 in Europe have 22kW on-board charging, like a Model S.

    5. I wasn't aware of that. I did not think that J1772 used the PP signal, being that it's a much older standard, for anything other than detecting the plug to prevent movement of the car. If it doesn't use PP to know the current capability of the lead that is plugged in then wouldn't be electrically unsafe and would be illegal to say the least.




    It doesn't have to be about car brand numbers. The standard throughout Europe and the UK is Type 2 for AC and there are still plenty of Leafs, Amperas (Volts) and Prius there.

    When you buy a new Leaf from Nissan UK you get a Type 2 to Type 1 cable.

    1941582_1529078874035386_8302200595325454231_o.jpg


    If anyone asks you about installing an EVSE that you might use, my suggestion would be to say you'll patronise any that are Type 2. Alternatively, put one at your place of work or get the owner of your favourite haunt to put one there. And don't forget to put it on Plugshare.
     
  20. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    I think a good compromise might be to do a type 2 socket charger as you have suggested.

    My only concern with that in public spaces is that people won't really know it's an electric car charger immediately - the visual effect of having a charger with a lead is quite effective in promoting discussion. People also need to carry their own leads, which may or may not be a problem - just an extra step.

    In any case, I agree with you we need to start from our own actions. We're a little hampered by what our clients want, but we will have both type 1 and type 2 chargers at our workplace in the next couple of months :)
     

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