TESLA MODEL S stopped working... CAR MAY NOT RESTART

[Peter_P]

Same here in the Netherlands. I also asked for the possibility to get a new battery, and initially on the phone the service center indicated a rough price for a new pack, but later informed me that a refurbished battery was the only option. A new battery at a reasonable price (~15k) would be a great option.

 

[Domih]

Hey, I just read through this forum and am wondering if my issue can be fixed without having battery replaced by Tesla.
Car is 2014 Model S P85

Problem:
- MCU died after trying to replace the display (had leakage)
- Because MCU died, my 12V also died, as the car wouldn't go to sleep
- Since this moment I have the following errors(they kept changing but these I capture in an image):

• EPAS_d076_KFSDAS_TIMO
• GTW_W405-12VNotSupported
• GTW_W026_ibsMia
• BMS_u018_SOC_Imbalance_Limiting
• BMS_u008_limpMode
• BMS_w107_SW_Cell_Voltage_Sensor
• BMS_w007_SW_Module_Alarm_Broken

What I've tried:
- Charging the car. Charge port is red
- Checked fuses

• F92 Contactor Power
• F53 BMS Fuse
• F12 Drive Power
• F44 Charge Port

- Pulled BMS Fuse
- Reset BMS with Toolbox
- Clear BMS Alerts with Toolbox
- Powercycles
Extra information:
Ran HV-Autodiag: "Autodiag has detected an abnormal high brick impedance that may have contributed to loss of acceleration performance fromt he vehicle powertrain. CREATE A SESSION and mark Article 6669700 as a problem. Follow the "Steps to Fix" section within the article for the appoprate repair. The highest brick voltage delte detected was 3.2 V"
"Bad Brick voltage measurement from brick ID 45. The pack HWID is 41."

Before I buy another hour of Toolbox, could PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR_LATCH-BITS potentially fix this?

I refuse to go to Tesla and have my battery replaced for 12K just for them to easily fix the problem and reman my battery pack.

Car is in Veldhoven in the Netherlands.

Hopefully I provided more information to be pointed in the right direction.

 

[brainhouston]

w107 most likely means that one of the sense wires fell off, was common issue on old packs...
no way to fix it besides opening up the pack n re-attaching it, but even then its a risk it might not work.
its possible that many other wires could be on their way too, n it all could be due to moisture/water...

 

[Domih]

w107 most likely means that one of the sense wires fell off, was common issue on old packs...
no way to fix it besides opening up the pack n re-attaching it, but even then its a risk it might not work.
its possible that many other wires could be on their way too, n it all could be due to moisture/water...

I don’t think that could be it, as the car was just standing still (for a couple of weeks)

 

[Peter_P]

Hey, I just read through this forum and am wondering if my issue can be fixed without having battery replaced by Tesla.
Car is 2014 Model S P85

Problem:
- MCU died after trying to replace the display (had leakage)
- Because MCU died, my 12V also died, as the car wouldn't go to sleep
- Since this moment I have the following errors(they kept changing but these I capture in an image):

• EPAS_d076_KFSDAS_TIMO
• GTW_W405-12VNotSupported
• GTW_W026_ibsMia
• BMS_u018_SOC_Imbalance_Limiting
• BMS_u008_limpMode
• BMS_w107_SW_Cell_Voltage_Sensor
• BMS_w007_SW_Module_Alarm_Broken

What I've tried:
- Charging the car. Charge port is red
- Checked fuses

• F92 Contactor Power
• F53 BMS Fuse
• F12 Drive Power
• F44 Charge Port

- Pulled BMS Fuse
- Reset BMS with Toolbox
- Clear BMS Alerts with Toolbox
- Powercycles
Extra information:
Ran HV-Autodiag: "Autodiag has detected an abnormal high brick impedance that may have contributed to loss of acceleration performance fromt he vehicle powertrain. CREATE A SESSION and mark Article 6669700 as a problem. Follow the "Steps to Fix" section within the article for the appoprate repair. The highest brick voltage delte detected was 3.2 V"
"Bad Brick voltage measurement from brick ID 45. The pack HWID is 41."

Before I buy another hour of Toolbox, could PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR_LATCH-BITS potentially fix this?

I refuse to go to Tesla and have my battery replaced for 12K just for them to easily fix the problem and reman my battery pack.

Car is in Veldhoven in the Netherlands.

Hopefully I provided more information to be pointed in the right direction.

Unfortunately, this indeed seems to point to an issue with the main battery. I would start with reading out the cell voltages using for example ScanMyTesla. You may temporarily clear the fault using the Tesla Toolbox, but if the cause is not fixed, the fault will return.

I live in Best, so normally nearby, but currently in France until mid next week. You could reach out to the Hybride Shop in Schijndel.

 

[Cyp896]

Hi, hopefully someone could give some advice what I can do more, what to check more and what could be reason of my isolation problem.

I experience isolation for about year. Recently it happens more often. I checked each and every HV component, each wire and all looks good. Isolation for ptc, bh, hvjb, chg etc. High above minimum, reaching minimum 800 Mohm and more. Lowest looks for large rear drive/inverter 4.8 Mohm, but still above minimum. Cmp has over 50 Mohm, but as well above minimum described by Tesla.
Despite it, my isolation drops sometimes to zero.

I tested so far, that unpluging battery heater or cmp has almost no effect - ultimately in both cases I get error.
Difference is however, that during plugged and working battery heater, isolation frequently drop to 0.255 during drive (for a second), while in case of working AC has no effect during drive.
But in both cases, it drop to zero (0) for few seconds once I will stop car and turn off drive rail. Contactors are switching off and error appears on dashboard.

What can be reason for such behaviour?
For me looks like something is cooling and causing problem. Front junction box, where is passive cooling? Or dcdc converter? Or large rear unit drive?
Any advice would be helpul.

 

[brainhouston]

Post codes...
How are u watching iso?

 

[NewbyMaybe]

Did you check the drive unit speed sensor for contamination?

 

[borowanlan]

That sudden loss if isolation sure sounds like the usual drive unit problem.

 

[Cyp896]

Iso, I am reading can signals through tbx - when running test. Manually by disamble each part and checking using isolation resistance tool testing 250 or 500v depending on the part.
After few errors (10?), I am getting permanent error and power/regen is limited.
I know, this is not solution, but aftet that permanent error I am clearing errors and test again...
I had not checked drive unit speed sensor (did not know it could be reason...not sure how check it, but hopefully will find some pics). Thanks for advice.

 

[Cyp896]

Here comes some pictures from my past measurement. It shows either:
1) sudden drop to about 255kohm (from around 1400kohm) for few seconds. This is when I was driving with AC on, while BatteryyHeater unplugged
2) sudden drop to 0 kohm (from around 1400kohm). This was after I stopped car, when driving with BatteryHeater in operation (either prehiting when heading SuC or Ludicrous+). In this case, AC was unplugged from HV.
Recently however was driving with plugged all HV, not working AC, nor BatteryHeater (at least I was not running it) - error again after stopped car.
Finally, suprisingly I noticed morning, that around 4am, error also appeared. Was not an active error, but in history. Certainly nobody was driving at 4am

 

[Cyp896]

Did you check the drive unit speed sensor for contamination?

I check and it looks like fluid contaminated sensor.
Need to clean it, repair and stop leakage, somehow...

 

[rxom]

Here comes some pictures from my past measurement. It shows either:
1) sudden drop to about 255kohm (from around 1400kohm) for few seconds. This is when I was driving with AC on, while BatteryyHeater unplugged
2) sudden drop to 0 kohm (from around 1400kohm). This was after I stopped car, when driving with BatteryHeater in operation (either prehiting when heading SuC or Ludicrous+). In this case, AC was unplugged from HV.
Recently however was driving with plugged all HV, not working AC, nor BatteryHeater (at least I was not running it) - error again after stopped car.
Finally, suprisingly I noticed morning, that around 4am, error also appeared. Was not an active error, but in history. Certainly nobody was driving at 4amView attachment 963226View attachment 963227

how did you do to have this on toolbos 3 ?
seem that i ve got iso problem on my cousin s SP85 ( BMS_f123, W123, w158,W142) i didin't foud any problem when i test all HV part with meghometter.

and how did you clear this error by the way ?


Thanks !

 

[Cyp896]

I am using tbx2 to check iso as this is simplest way for me. It can however be read by any can tool or simply by listening udp messages.
With regards to reseting errors, please refer to previous post from WK057 TESLA MODEL S stopped working... CAR MAY NOT RESTART

 

[brainhouston]

I didn't need to clear BMS_f123
It went away on its own after i removed and dried the pack

 

[rxom]

ok, intersting.... Thanks !
i succeed with toolbox 3 having can reading and i find lots of info wery helpfull :
now i think this could be contactor problem when i see contactor state chart and bms state :
for intel, my cousin drive from 20H00 to 20H20 at the restaurant.. the weather at this time was dry.. and at 21h46, isolatin does from 2200 Mohm to 0. he remenber that there was a storm outside at 22h00. (is it related ?? maybe not after all... the car was static. and when he whant to come , he has all the 4 isolation message)

any thoughts about all this is welcomed !

 

[rxom]

ok, intersting.... Thanks !
i succeed with toolbox 3 having can reading and i find lots of info wery helpfull :
now i think this could be contactor problem when i see contactor state chart and bms state :
for intel, my cousin drive from 20H00 to 20H20 at the restaurant.. the weather at this time was dry.. and at 21h46, isolatin does from 2200 Mohm to 0. he remenber that there was a storm outside at 22h00. (is it related ?? maybe not after all... the car was static. and when he whant to come , he has all the 4 isolation message)

any thoughts about all this is welcomed !

an update about this problem : in fact, abter having removed the battery pack, this was a pyro fuse problem : alittle bit of water was on the fuse box and electronic part of pyro was completely oxydized.
anyway, as i have new contactor, i change it with the puro fuse.

But i need to use toolbox 3 to erase BMS f123 and u123, and then, the car was up and ready.

 

[Mack Dack]

Hello everyone Tell me please at what voltage the Tesla model s will not turn on the contactors? I have a 12 volt battery right now. When the brake pedal is pressed, it drops to 11.7 and the contactors do not turn on. Errors Dl_u014 _ not_ok_to_start_drive

 

[mr_hyde]

Thanks! Somehow I actually do hope your suspicion about the loose wires is not right for our car, for sure I will keep an eye on it.

We took out module 11 from the pack and I checked all wires. Out of the 7 wires, only the wire between cell group 63 and 64 was loose.
The other modules we left in the pack considering if it ain't broke, don't fix it (in hindsight not sure if that was the smartest choice, time will tell...).

To be very precise about what I did:
- Last BMS_f107 alert was today at 11:54:28 (CET)
- Tried to connect to CAN bus with transceiver, but did not work
- Purchased 1h access to Toolbox, which started at 12:21
- Checked isolation resistance and noted it was 3640 kOhm with BMS still in fault state
- Ran procedure PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR-ISOLATION-ALERT-COUNTERS which succeeded; as expected, BMS_f107 was still "active"
- Also ran procedure PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR-CONTACTOR_STRESS which also succeeded, but again as expected, BMS_f107 was still "active"
- Then by the description in Toolbox "This should be run to clear latched alert once the HV battery has been repaired in remanufacturing.", I was hoping that PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR-LATCH-BITS would do something, however it failed (from the UDS trace, after the key was transmitted, there was no reply).
- I ran PING-TP_BMS which succeeded
- Finally, I ran PROC_BMS_X_CLEAR-LATCH-BITS which this time succeeded and then immediately after, the "BMS_f107" alert disappeared as "active alert"
- I put the car into Reverse and it worked! This was at 12:36 (at least that was when I took a picture of it).

Perhaps the time after the last alert also played a role, I don't know how to verify that.

It is now 7 hours later (19:36 in the Netherlands), and the BMS fault has not (yet) come back luckily. The car is only telling me I need to refill the coolant (planned for tomorrow) and that the software needs to be updated (I suppose because of the GTW_w125_dcdcVersionMismatch).

I don't know how the BMS actually determines the sensor fault (missing/erratic data or measure contact resistance with balancers and voltage drop?), but I will keep my fingers crossed that it does not come back and for sure I will keep an eye on the cell voltages and imbalance (still ~9-10 mV)!

Peter,

This thread got a little cluttered but I am curious about your experience with BMS_f107 and BMS_w107. I recently replaced corroded BMB boards in my pack. I reinstalled the pack and SMT shows valid voltages on all 96 bricks but I still have f and w107 which seem to be keeping the contactors from closing. All of the other errors that showed up with the failed BMB seem to have cleared but not the 107 pair. Is toolbox the only option to reset these?

 

[rxom]

Peter,

This thread got a little cluttered but I am curious about your experience with BMS_f107 and BMS_w107. I recently replaced corroded BMB boards in my pack. I reinstalled the pack and SMT shows valid voltages on all 96 bricks but I still have f and w107 which seem to be keeping the contactors from closing. All of the other errors that showed up with the failed BMB seem to have cleared but not the 107 pair. Is toolbox the only option to reset these?

yes, the only thing to do is to use toolbox3 to reset contactor in fact: already experienced that in two cars.