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Tesla Model X Cancellation

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Seriously, I can understand being mad about having the wrong seats, but if they signed something saying the seats would be swapped out, I don't see why he couldn't endure a few weeks of driving with the originals and then get the upgraded seats.
 
Seriously, I can understand being mad about having the wrong seats, but if they signed something saying the seats would be swapped out, I don't see why he couldn't endure a few weeks of driving with the originals and then get the upgraded seats.

I will add that potentially, he had the option to refuse delivery until the car was as he ordered it, rather than making this a punch item (not that I personally would have done thing -- as others have said, less wear and tear on the new seats to get them a bit down the road). According to the info in this thread, Tesla said he would lose his deposit. Now, I can understand escalation going on here about refusing delivery without loss of the funds since the delivered car was materially different than what ordered. Now, a punch item to fix a door or replace a light, so be it. But the seats are a specific option to pick standard vs. next-gen. To me, that is materially different (but again, I personally would have been fine with this being a punch item as long as it was on written documentation). That said, the Op does appear to be adversarial, so it could have escalated quickly to "let your lawyer talk to my lawyer."

Either way, I can totally understand Tesla deciding they no longer want to do custom builds for this person. As I said earlier in the thread, unless it is so detailed in the Op's letter that we can no longer see, we do not know that Tesla has banned him from buying an inventory "as-is" car. They could simply be saying they will not build-to-order a car for this individual since his expectation and resulting actions of the order and delivery process fundamentally differs from Tesla's. They may have a full blacklist, but we do not know.

All told, I do not personally see an issue with the character behavior Tesla attributes to the Op from his MS dealings influencing their decision discontinuing dealings for a MX. Tesla knows there may or may not be delivery issues for the Model X and thus, the Op's behavior would indicate that he would be irate around that delivery as well. Thus, it makes sense for all parties to go their separate ways.
 
@montauto you are complaining that Tesla secretly added features to cars at no cost to the consumer and crying like a child that only got 1 cookie for free when the other kid got 2. Be happy with what you have.

Tesla doesn't owe you anything. They simply made a business decision to start absorbing the cost of these new hardware features in the models they were producing. Most car manufactures would have waited and announced the next years model has these new features and then you still would not have those features. When the new iPhone comes out you don't just get given the features, you have to buy new hardware. Tesla did something unique and just improved the hardware so they could just issue software updates. They couldn't just tell everyone "hold off on buying your new cars for several months, we are going to be releasing some new hardware and giving it to you for free if you just wait longer for your car" - they need cash flow. And even if you say you might have paid in advance and just not had your car produced yet, well there are others that would just hold onto their cash and place the order once the features are included.

Sueing a company is not the way to get what you want. That is burning a bridge, never to do business with again. Relationship over.

Liquidated damages and a rental? Are you serious? If Tesla (or any other car company) had to give you a gaurenteed uptime then they would have to charge twice as much for their cars because their potential downside is so great if something happens. You have seriously unrealistic expectations in life and must have never been involved in any capitol equipment manufacturing. Your vision of the world doesn't work because industry would come to a vault for fear of getting sued and losing more than you stand to gain.

Advice: drop the suite and apologize if you really want an X. Otherwise find some other car company to be mad at with your unrealistic expectations.
 
...if seats really put him over the edge it kinda seems clear he has different intentions and doesn't really want a P85D.

I don't know about that. I think he really did want the car, and still does, as well as the X, but he's just one of those folks who are really difficult to please and they also look for things like this to latch onto. Some people thrive on conflict. I see those types of people a lot in my business. Many get a lot of things they want in life that way so there is a reward to it. Sometimes, however, it comes back to bite you.
 
Some people thrive on conflict. I see those types of people a lot in my business. Many get a lot of things they want in life that way so there is a reward to it. Sometimes, however, it comes back to bite you.

I definitely agree with this, as I've seen it plenty myself. I'd argue that the reward is overvalued, though, because the same result can frequently be achieved through amicable means. It's just that the amicable way is often more difficult and nuanced. As I've aged, I've decided that transactions should generally have a regret-free result. This means keeping my cool and taking the seemingly harder path, even if it might have a lower success rate. For me personally, it makes for a more satisfying life.
 
I definitely agree with this, as I've seen it plenty myself. I'd argue that the reward is overvalued, though, because the same result can frequently be achieved through amicable means. It's just that the amicable way is often more difficult and nuanced. As I've aged, I've decided that transactions should generally have a regret-free result. This means keeping my cool and taking the seemingly harder path, even if it might have a lower success rate. For me personally, it makes for a more satisfying life.

In other words; Life is too short, PEACE :wink:

EDIT: sorry everyone....hoping mine is the last post. The proverbial horse...and this thread...has been beaten to death....PLEASE, let mine be the final post. Thank you.
 
Well so far the only thing we have is the OP's account of what happened written to Jerome (1/26/2015) and the final response written by Tesla's lawyer (2/26/2015) that cancelled all Tesla's business dealings with him, and that the OP decided to post this on (3/28/2015). There is a one month gap between each of these, which raises red flags with me (why wait that long to post about this and what happened in between).

We also know he took wanted to start a class action lawsuit on 10/13/2014 because he purchased a P85+ without knowing a P85D was going to come out:
I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail

According to his email to Jerome, he went to pick up his car on 1/6/2015 and noticed it didn't have next gen seats. However, on 1/7/2015 he said:
I have refused delivery, but now Tesla is silent ... another one of their games ... My lawyer reached out to them and they simply replied: "We will get back to you soon ... "
So he literally waited one day (maybe less) for Tesla's response before lawyering up.
This point was already made in that thread by others, but when you lawyer up for a situation like this, Tesla reps will not longer be able to respond to you directly and they would have to forward the whole thing to Tesla's lawyer (which will only delay the response further). So while I assumed the lawyer talk happened after things didn't work out with Jerome, it seems it happened immediately after (refusal of) delivery.
 
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You're either deliberately misreading what I wrote or you just didn't understand the words.

To clarify for you, I did make clear criticism wasn't the issue (in response to his complaint that people here didn't think he should say anything negative). My comment about being a victim was about the fact that he isn't owning how his own unreasonable behavior resulted in being blacklisted.

But that doesn't probably fit with your worldview about people on TMC. I get it.

LOL! I don't know if you ever watched Bevis and Butthead - I never really did too much but I have a friend at work who does a great impression of one of the most famous quotes from that show where one of them (I don't know if its Bevis or Butthead) says "Errrrr what???"

But that's all I can say to your "worldview" comment!

You said something about the OP playing the victim and if you didn't mean he wasn't entitled to complain about Tesla giving him a car configured incorrectly then I apologize. Certainly did read that way to me, but oh well.

This forum has a lot of pile-ons where anybody that gets mad at Tesla, rightly or wrongly, gets blasted unmercifully. This is one of them. If you don't see it that way then we just disagree, but I do have a right to my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you imagine if you had no idea that the seat issue was happening (because, you know, you didn't hang out in online Tesla communities) and your car showed up with the wrong seats and no mention of it at delivery? Regardless of how acceptable the seats you currently have are, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel a bit miffed that such an error was made (with no communication about it or planned resolution)

Agree completely. Well stated.
 
this is definitely a strong argument for allowing independent franchises to sell the vehicle as well.
Sorry if this is O/T: I see a leap in the reasoning. Why an argument for franchises selling? It's an argument to go buy straight from other owners too; which is possible today: The observation that owners are still not selling that many direct to others is a market at play; even if Tesla had franchised dealers, would they be mandated to give them inventory they might as well sell themselves?
 
Some ppl just think everything they feel is appropriate and just. This person clearly has some issues of understanding that problems can be, let me say it in layman terms: "problematic".

Go Tesla, I wouldn't wanna make business with you either.
Find it kinda funny you go on all forums talking about how mistreated you've been. And everywhere the majority says that you are being a D¶©&..

Take this home and think about what you would could and should have done in the position Tesla was forced to. Don't really think you are able to think outside yourself.

Sorry about snippiness moderators. Can't help with this guy.
 
This forum has a lot of pile-ons where anybody that gets mad at Tesla, rightly or wrongly, gets blasted unmercifully. This is one of them. If you don't see it that way then we just disagree, but I do have a right to my opinion.

Not only do you have a right to your opinion, but any opinion presented in an appropriate way should be welcomed here.

What I don't get about your comments is that you can't seem to see that many here, including myself, have said that Tesla did wrong, and handled it inappropriately. We just think that the way the OP responded to the wrong that was done to him was far worse than that wrong deserved. I'd never do business with anyone who not only repeatedly threatened to sue me, but also publicly called for a class action suit against me. That's pretty drastic then he just expects for it be business as usual with his Model X order.

You claim that people here are blinded to Tesla's side. Yet it seems to me that you are blinded the other way. At least there is an admission of wrongdoing on our side on behalf of Tesla. I don't see any admission on the other side. But to be fair, I haven't read over all of your posts on this issue, so perhaps I am wrong.
 
(BTW, the OP's attorney should probably make him aware that to claim the EV tax credit in 2014 he would have had to put the car in service in 2014. Signing the papers but not accepting delivery until 2015 may well be considered fraudulent in the eyes of the IRS)

For completeness the OP claims the 2014 signing was initiated on Tesla's request and he assumed so that they (or someone there?) could meet a 2014 quota. If the information here is correct, Tesla's position is the opposite: that the OP initiated it for tax reasons. If so, someone is in the wrong, but how can we know who. All I know is the story does change a lot depending on for who and why this early signing was done, because I also imagine it made it harder to refuse delivery later when the car was checked and found missing an item. I believe TMC has similar critique from other members where Tesla has been hastening some deliveries to meet quartal quotas?

It isn't hard for me to imagine this being a misunderstanding either, where both sides feel it was the other side's request, if it happened through some idle chatter between the OP and DS deciding to do the papers early, with both feeling personal pros for it (DS a quota, OP a tax break), but neither really needing to do it. I can see how the story might look different to OP and DS if both feel this step was because of the other party. Also, this wouldn't be the first time corporate higher-ups wouldn't have the full picture of customer interaction, so there is that layer of potential broken communications as well.

I second this. To get there, both parties must be willing and back off a bit.

OP has more to loose, being banned as a Tesla customer must be shattering. Perhaps OP learned a lesson not to be too righteous, considering the outcome.

Some mediation is called for. The party that made the first threat is the one that has to make a first step towards different outcome, if that is what they wish.

Good luck.

I agree, although I think a reconciliation could always be initiated by either party. I remember one great quote from a senior citizen, of a happy couple, with many, many decades of marriage behind them being asked what is the secret. It was along the lines of: "Oh, we too fell out of love many times, but never both at the same time." If that isn't true of any human interaction/relationship, I don't know what is. As a westener, I believe we have religions based on this notion...

If the OP would call Jerome and say "Look, I was an a**, could we patch up? Model S didn't work for either us for a number of reasons, but I think Model X would. I promise to give it a fair shake."

In this case Tesla too escalated (with the unrelated Model X cancellation). In reverese, if Jerome called the guy, perhaps using the reservation as kind but well-intentioned leverage starting with something like "Look, I doubt either of want this issue, is there some way we could shake up hands, forget about the Model S for now and get back with the program with the Model X in better terms"? If Tesla would need some paper signed, fair enough. If the OP then goes on to be unreasonable, so let it go.

I could still see a chance of things working out if either or both took the opportunity.

In any case, no glee from me for this thread. I see a lot of people jumping from joy, with several posters expressing they are happy Tesla did this. I would much rather see a resolution for all, our peers and the company alike. I think it would be in the interest of TM and the friendliness of the TMC community as well.

---

Finally, I feel the urge to underline that I, like many others, agree the OP was combative and expressed his anger over the events with lawsuit threats included. I get no joy from that, nor is that what I would have done. His combative approach definitely made things worse for him. I think this is important to note, just so nobody thinks we were overlooking that. But then I see no joy in the absolute pummeling the OP is getting here either. I don't see how treating a persona like that could be good for us or the community.

It is like Apple fan sites where someone criticizes Apple beyond cosmetic complaints, it is brutal. It is a usual argument on sites like that that just because small criticism is allowed by said community, that it is proof large would too, but that doesn't really follow in reality. People who identify very strongly with the company/product, don't often take well if they feel the party the identify with being attacked (even when the "attack" would be justified) - and the level of criticism where that happens doesn't have to be very high either.

I guess it is a bit like family. A husband may find fault in his wife and nag, but if their neighbour were to say something bad about the wife (no matter if it is deserved, like if said wife would crash the neighbours car and walk away in secret), the husband often wouldn't take that kindly at all. Same with children, often parents may discipline them, but don't take well if others do, even if it were fair. Except in the case of actual family, this would probably be somewhat more understandable than it is with companies, but the very same thing happens around companies as well - people protect what they see as their own and it isn't necessarily about who is ríght.

Let's not turn into that.

I guess one could argue Tesla truly is the iPhone of cars, as I (and many others) have put it at times, in every way possible. :) To Tesla's credit, they have created a remarkable product that creates strong emotion. No denying that. A real achievement.

We're all guilty of this in some avenue of our life, I'm sure. I sure as heck won't be throwing any stones.
 
Not quite huh?

That's fair of course.

Granted, I had given up on this thread as something that could generate mutual understanding and stopped replying at the debate two days ago or so. But it has changed in the past couple of pages thanks to a few new posters in the thread. Hence I thought there might be room for a couple more ponderings of how to patch up.

Thanks especially to the calming voice of the likes of Auzie.

- - - Updated - - -

Some ppl just think everything they feel is appropriate and just. This person clearly has some issues of understanding that problems can be, let me say it in layman terms: "problematic".

Sure, but in all fairness some people think most everything Tesla does is appropriate and just, and rarely read anything beyond that.

Harder is finding out who exactly is wrong about what. It hardly ever is just one party.

Even harder is coming to terms despite differences and shaking hands on something both/all can benefit from. I'd love to see that, though.
 
1. I agree, although I think a reconciliation could always be initiated by either party.

2. In this case Tesla too escalated (with the unrelated Model X cancellation).

3. In any case, no glee from me for this thread. I see a lot of people jumping from joy, with several posters expressing they are happy Tesla did this.

4. Finally, I feel the urge to underline that I, like many others, agree the OP was combative and expressed his anger over the events with lawsuit threats included. I get no joy from that, nor is that what I would have done. His combative approach definitely made things worse for him. I think this is important to note, just so nobody thinks we were overlooking that. But then I see no joy in the absolute pummeling the OP is getting here either. I don't see how treating a persona like that could be good for us or the community.

It is like Apple fan sites where someone criticizes Apple beyond cosmetic complaints, it is brutal. It is a usual argument on sites like that that just because small criticism is allowed by said community, that it is proof large would too, but that doesn't really follow in reality. People who identify very strongly with the company/product, don't often take well if they feel the party the identify with being attacked (even when the "attack" would be justified) - and the level of criticism where that happens doesn't have to be very high either.

5. I guess it is a bit like family.

6. We're all guilty of this in some avenue of our life, I'm sure. I sure as heck won't be throwing any stones.

1. OP started the fire, so he can start peace negotiations if he wishes. That would be a fantastic sign of growth and might provide required reassurance to Tesla team to re-engage if they wish.

2. That was a defense move. Tesla never attacked, big difference.

3. No one is jumping for joy. There is a teaching moment in here with some entertainment value thrown in.

4. Some people go through life dishing it out and suddenly someone dishes it back to them, they get startled by unusual outcome and broadcast asking for sympathy.

OP miscalculated the outcome. The current outcome is a nett positive for Tesla, nett negative for OP. Tesla loses one customer (negligible) but gains in such loss as no one has to spend time dealing with a disagreeable customer. Gain far outweighs the loss. For OP, he got his emotional feed from being combative and righteous but lost the opportunity to purchase a great car in a direct easy manner. Maybe OP does not care that much about the car as much as he might be startled that someone dished it back to him.

The only downside for Tesla is that they need to demonstrate that they are an adult in this interaction.

5. This is a business matter, not family.

6. Not denying.
 
1. OP started the fire, so he can start peace negotiations if he wishes. That would be a fantastic sign of growth and might provide required reassurance to Tesla team to re-engage if they wish.

2. That was a defense move. Tesla never attacked, big difference.

3. No one is jumping for joy. There is a teaching moment in here with some entertainment value thrown in.

4. Some people go through life dishing it out and suddenly someone dishes it back to them, they get startled by unusual outcome and broadcast asking for sympathy.

OP miscalculated the outcome. The current outcome is a nett positive for Tesla, nett negative for OP. Tesla loses one customer (negligible) but gains in such loss as no one has to spend time dealing with a disagreeable customer. Gain far outweighs the loss. For OP, he got his emotional feed from being combative and righteous but lost the opportunity to purchase a great car in a direct easy manner. Maybe OP does not care that much about the car as much as he might be startled that someone dished it back to him.

The only downside for Tesla is that they need to demonstrate that they are an adult in this interaction.

5. This is a business matter, not family.

6. Not denying.

1. OP certainly can start peace negotiations and I would love to see him do that. I still think even Tesla could.

2. A lot has been made in this thread about the initial mistake being Tesla's (incomplete delivery, no communication about it) and the response of OP being disproportionate. I'm not sure it couldn't be argued Tesla's response to OP's response could be disproportionate too, cancelling an unrelated reservation. I'm not saying it is disproportionate, because I don't know enough about the incident, but then probably neither does most (all?) of the folk in this thread either.

3. Strongly disagreed, there are several messages of gleeful joy against the OP in this thread. You know they're there, there is no need for me to digging them. Some of the comments have been very personal and vicious in nature, even though this is between a private individual and a company of many.

4. That is true, but it doesn't mean the story of the OP necessarily warrants the exact response it got. For example, if his initial P85+ purchase and then the P85D delivery included overzealous salespeople pushing him with incomplete information, I could see why he would be right to be upset. But of course I don't know if those things happened as he said and probably neither does the people at Tesla who decided against him, because those private interactions probably aren't documented anywhere, yet they could have materially affected OPs perception of Tesla and the process.

5. Certainly, even though Tesla brought in the word family in the OP communications. That said, my point was: Some people on interest groups identify so strongly with the company/product they are following, that they may defend them with the same level of zeal someone would defend their family member from perceived attack, no matter if the "attack" was fair or not. If a strong enough argument is made against such a company/product, it will not matter if the argument-maker has a point, to such a person strongly identifying with the said company/product, they will return fire on the argument-maker and ask questions later/never. This is, I think, very apparent e.g. on many Apple forums.

6. I am definitely, myself, guilty of defending someone or something near and dear to me, even with I've known overall it isn't fair and even when it has been irrational. Most of us probably have. That's why I think the idea that either - or preferably both - parties taking a step back, reaching out to each other and shaking hands on some terms both are even remotely comfortable with.

Some say life is too short for arguments. But it is too short for unnecessary estrangements too.
 
The best chance to rectify this situation is probably for montauto to attempt to reconcile with Tesla Motors. Both sides have valid points, but Tesla has legal precedence with considerable legal and financial resources on its side, if any company chooses not to do business with any potential or actual purchasers, they are within their rights to just say, "No, we do not wish to have any further interactions with you." The U.S. is considered to be one of the most litigious and over lawyered countries on the planet, perhaps Tesla didn't like what they saw coming and just said, "Let's not do this." It is possible that montauto's reservation # has been permanently lost and there is no longer any way that he can be re-accommodated. I'd say the ball is in montauto's court now, any chance of "fixing" this situation will be dependant on (him?), convincing Tesla that his previous (as perceived by Tesla Motors), unpleasant, litigious behavior would permanently cease in return for his reservation being reinstated. I doubt that this decision by Tesla Motors to cut off all relations with montauto was done lightly, someone quite high up in the TM hierarchy must have taken a look at the case and said, "How badly do we really need this person's business?" the answer; not so much. If it was a high level decision, the determination may be irrevocable and permanent. One of the parties apparently felt that threats of legal action were a way of doing business, and doing so in the past may have resulted in getting things done, but the other party felt that "It takes two to have an argument." and choose not to deal with someone who looked like they wanted to argue and harangue, Tesla may be responding by saying, "you'll have to argue with yourself then, because we are walking away." As a small business owner, I have refused to work with "exceptionally difficult" customers in the past, sometimes it becomes clear that we will not mesh and it is best to decouple. In the end it boils down to deciding which interactions are mutually beneficial or not, if doing business with a person or entity is not satisfying for both parties, it makes sense to terminate the relationship. This mismatched marriage was not shaping up to be a happy one and perhaps a divorce was considered the best course.
 
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