Tesla Owners, Let's Talk: Touchscreen vs. Physical Buttons - What's Your Take?

[sleepydoc]

I love how whenever somebody brings up wanting more physical controls in their car the Tesla stans immediately claim that the only two choices are absolute Tesla minimalism, or a sea of hundreds of buttons throughout the cabin. Please. Good tactile but minimal automotive controls/interiors have been done throughout automotive history and at multiple price points. 'Good' meaning both nice to use and nice to look at. Look at the dash of a Porsche 356, classic VW Beetle (I know, almost the same thing), a freekin' 1997 Honda Accord. We can have both minimalism and tactile controls, and (with a touch screen) access to hundreds of settings we don't need while driving.. What we get now is just lazy bad design across the industry for the most part. A human factors disaster either way.

no, that totally destroys the false choice that they are trying to present!

 

[zroger73]

At least in my part of the country, it doesn't appear there's much need for buttons or levers for turn signals judging by the few people who use them. And, don't get me started on people who continue driving through intersections seconds after the light turns red. And, the police just sit there and watch them (when they're not running lights and failing to signal themselves).

 

[Midpack]

no, that totally destroys the false choice that they are trying to present!

Like a "sea of hundreds of buttons" isn't a ridiculous exaggeration. You're welcome to your POV, but who made you king to criticize others equally valid POVs? You seem to think there is your a "right answer" - there's clearly not.

So buy a Hyundai EV if that's what you want. Tesla seems to be selling cars as fast as they can make them, despite your views.

 

[sleepydoc]

Like a "sea of hundreds of buttons" isn't a ridiculous exaggeration. You're welcome to your POV, but who made you king to criticize others equally valid POVs? You seem to think there is your a "right answer" - there's clearly not.

So buy a Hyundai EV if that's what you want. Tesla seems to be selling cars as fast as they can make them, despite your views.

Thought you said you weren't going to post any more...

My only response is to say that there's no point in having a discussion with someone who deals in absolutes and can't understand nuances.

 

[sleepydoc]

At least in my part of the country, it doesn't appear there's much need for buttons or levers for turn signals judging by the few people who use them. And, don't get me started on people who continue driving through intersections seconds after the light turns red. And, the police just sit there and watch them (when they're not running lights and failing to signal themselves).

You must have a lot of BMWs there!

 

[robjg63]

At least in my part of the country, it doesn't appear there's much need for buttons or levers for turn signals judging by the few people who use them. And, don't get me started on people who continue driving through intersections seconds after the light turns red. And, the police just sit there and watch them (when they're not running lights and failing to signal themselves).

Well you dont have that to yourself unfortunately...

But I understand that 'Roundabouts' are seldom used in the USA - Is that true?

They are used frequently in most other countries. If you drive into a roundabout you have to initially indicate - thats fine, your steering wheel is straight when you enter the roundabout and easy to know which is left and right.

You have to indicate when and where you will exit the roundabout.
So the steering wheel has been turned and is no longer straight ahead. It could be at any angle and there would be quite a degree of mental gymnastics to work out that the indicators are now on (maybe) the right side of the wheel and upside down. So right is now left and left is now right and its on the other side of the wheel.

Maybe the wheel is at a 90 degree angle - The buttons are now at the 'top' of the wheel. Hmm - Up is Left and Down is Right?
You have a second to work it out and get it right.

Someone described removal of the stalk as "a solution looking for a problem".
It just seems more like "a problem" created by a bunch of idiots.

 

[Midpack]

Thought you said you weren't going to post any more...

My only response is to say that there's no point in having a discussion with someone who deals in absolutes and can't understand nuances.

We disagree. That's OK. But evidently you just can't accept that...you want to argue anyway.

 

[zroger73]

Okay, ladies and gentlemen - can we please take the off-topic bickering private? Thanks!

 

[father_of_6]

Someone described removal of the stalk as "a solution looking for a problem".
It just seems more like "a problem" created by a bunch of idiots.

To be clear, when I talk about "buttons", the stalks don't fit into that category to me. They're physical controls, but definitely deserve to be preserved. I'm also not super opposed to having *any* physical controls, contrary to @smogne41's attack.

The issue is that once you start going down that road, it can quickly devolve into where most cars are today - button madness. "You get a button, you get a button, YOU get a button". Buttons and knobs and sliders, oh my.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well you dont have that to yourself unfortunately...

But I understand that 'Roundabouts' are seldom used in the USA - Is that true?

They are used frequently in most other countries. If you drive into a roundabout you have to initially indicate - thats fine, your steering wheel is straight when you enter the roundabout and easy to know which is left and right.

You have to indicate when and where you will exit the roundabout.
So the steering wheel has been turned and is no longer straight ahead. It could be at any angle and there would be quite a degree of mental gymnastics to work out that the indicators are now on (maybe) the right side of the wheel and upside down. So right is now left and left is now right and its on the other side of the wheel.

Maybe the wheel is at a 90 degree angle - The buttons are now at the 'top' of the wheel. Hmm - Up is Left and Down is Right?
You have a second to work it out and get it right.

Someone described removal of the stalk as "a solution looking for a problem".
It just seems more like "a problem" created by a bunch of idiots.

The were out of favor for a long time but there are more and more roundabouts being installed in the states of late since they work well for certain traffic needs, so yeah - people have a regular need to signal while turning.

 

[sleepydoc]

To be clear, when I talk about "buttons", the stalks don't fit into that category to me. They're physical controls, but definitely deserve to be preserved. I'm also not super opposed to having *any* physical controls, contrary to @smogne41's attack.

The issue is that once you start going down that road, it can quickly devolve into where most cars are today - button madness. "You get a button, you get a button, YOU get a button". Buttons and knobs and sliders, oh my.

I could take the converse to the 'sea of buttons' argument: "the 'buttons are bad' people would rather we got rid of the steering wheel and the pedals and replaced them with touch controls!" I'm being facetious, of course, but it makes the point.

Like I've said before - it comes down more to interface design than a buttons vs touch screens. Well designed buttons beat a poorly designed screen any day. Likewise a well designed screen can do a good job of replacing many physical controls. The two modalities should work together and complement each other. I'll note there are also some functions which are required to have a physical control - gear controls are one. Tesla removed the stalk and made them electronic on the screen but then had to add buttons. Why? At that point you're needlessly increasing complexity for minimal to no benefit.

 

[tangible1]

Well you dont have that to yourself unfortunately...

But I understand that 'Roundabouts' are seldom used in the USA - Is that true?

They are used frequently in most other countries. If you drive into a roundabout you have to initially indicate - thats fine, your steering wheel is straight when you enter the roundabout and easy to know which is left and right.

You have to indicate when and where you will exit the roundabout.
So the steering wheel has been turned and is no longer straight ahead. It could be at any angle and there would be quite a degree of mental gymnastics to work out that the indicators are now on (maybe) the right side of the wheel and upside down. So right is now left and left is now right and its on the other side of the wheel.

Maybe the wheel is at a 90 degree angle - The buttons are now at the 'top' of the wheel. Hmm - Up is Left and Down is Right?
You have a second to work it out and get it right.

Someone described removal of the stalk as "a solution looking for a problem".
It just seems more like "a problem" created by a bunch of idiots.

'roundabouts' are very infrequent in the US, but continue to pop up at random locations.
mostly they are a traffic engineer's fantasy solution to moving traffic and saving real estate, but a nightmare for drivers in the US.
no one here teaches drivers how to navigate them, so as a consequence roundabouts are primarily crash magnets, making collision repair companies wads of cash.
best rule of thumb here: "always give the driver with front end damage right of way in a roundabout"

 

[sleepydoc]

'roundabouts' are very infrequent in the US, but continue to pop up at random locations.
mostly they are a traffic engineer's fantasy solution to moving traffic and saving real estate, but a nightmare for drivers in the US.
no one here teaches drivers how to navigate them, so as a consequence roundabouts are primarily crash magnets, making collision repair companies wads of cash.
best rule of thumb here: "always give the driver with front end damage right of way in a roundabout"

I'll disagree with you on this; They're becoming fairly common here in MN. For certain intersections they actually work quite well and help keep traffic moving. In general they're not difficult - you always yield to the person in the round about. Having said that there are definitely cases where they don't work, it all depends on the traffic requirements.

not unlike a touchscreen vs a button, actually!

 

[tangible1]

I'll disagree with you on this; They're becoming fairly common here in MN. For certain intersections they actually work quite well and help keep traffic moving. In general they're not difficult - you always yield to the person in the round about. Having said that there are definitely cases where they don't work, it all depends on the traffic requirements.

not unlike a touchscreen vs a button, actually!

roadway design schools teach the benefits of roundabouts.
driver education schools don't instruct their navigation.
hence the continued appearances of roundabouts, to the satisfaction of collision repair shops.

adding to the conundrum, it should be noted that roundabouts demand, here in the US, that drivers on the LEFT HAND SIDE be given right-of-way.
universally (here in the US) driver education emphasizes that drivers on the RIGHT HAND SIDE be given right-of-way at intersections.

That has also led to the California confusion of people here believing that highway on-ramp traffic has right-of-way when merging into 80mph freeway traffic.

"it's the people"

 

[father_of_6]

not unlike a touchscreen vs a button, actually!

Hey now, stay on topic. This thread's not about touchscreens or buttons, it's about roundabouts.

We have more and more roundabouts popping up near me as well. I don't like them very much. Same with "road diets". They take a 4 lane street (2 in each direction) and turn it into 2 wider lanes with shoulders.

 

[tangible1]

I'll disagree with you on this; They're becoming fairly common here in MN. For certain intersections they actually work quite well and help keep traffic moving. In general they're not difficult - you always yield to the person in the round about. Having said that there are definitely cases where they don't work, it all depends on the traffic requirements.

not unlike a touchscreen vs a button, actually!

you'll note I advocated that voice commands be added to that conversation.

 

[Midpack]

I think roundabouts are great, and I have not had bad experiences with them. There is no way traffic lights move traffic as fast on average, and it's much harder to get T-boned in a roundabout vs a traditional intersection.

Where I used to live the first roundabout that went in definitely threw some drivers, but after about two weeks most everyone had the hang of it - it was an area I drove through every day. Within months & years, it was very rare to encounter a driver who wasn't used to roundabouts.

Statistics also show that, over all, roundabouts are less dangerous for people than signal-light intersections (although the same can’t be said for the vehicles). The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety notes that entering a roundabout forces drivers to slow down, and because the vehicles are circling in one direction, deadly head-on and right-angle collisions are unlikely. When properly designed with sidewalks on the perimeter, they are said to be safer for pedestrians as well. The Federal Highway Administration says roundabouts reduce crashes that cause serious injury by 78 to 82 percent when compared with traffic-signal intersections. Although many drivers are at first uneasy about negotiating roundabouts, their opinion of them improves with continued use. A Washington State survey by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety showed that before construction, only 32 percent favored roundabouts, but after having driven them, 63 percent liked them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/business/roundabouts-traffic-circles.html

 

[smogne41]

Plenty of roundabouts here in the northeast. Not as many as Europe of course, but far more than California. I love em, safer and faster. Unlike touch screen controls

 

[Zythryn]

I would agree with the only exception, turn signals, and even that is only when signaling with the wheel turned - how often that is varies by driver. And moving the horn back to the center pad is a good choice. Everything else they moved seems fine to me - AUTO wipers & lights are fine by me and I use voice commands over buttons as much as possible or touchscreen already and I have stalks. I gradually transitioned to voice commands on our Honda, Subaru and Hyundai starting 5 years ago, before I bought a Tesla.

I know a couple users who have stalkless MS's, and they seem fine with letting the car determine D vs R, they don't have to override often.

Obviously some people think otherwise and go ballistic over many changes without ever trying them...like all tech/progress.

I was very skeptical of the stalkless idea.
I was also very interested in everything else the Highland brought to the table.

As such, I went and tried out the stalkless setup on a Model S. My concerns were, IMO, unwarranted and I am looking forward to the stalkless Highland.

 

[sleepydoc]

you'll note I advocated that voice commands be added to that conversation.

You’ll note I posted a long list of reasons why voice commands cannot be considered a substitute for a good interface. They can supplement but not substitute and never make up for a bad interface.