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Just like then, what do you mean by “stage it now”? How was the 2016 demo video staged in any negative way? There doesn't seem to be any clear negative staging of that video (or the following one a month later).Do they still need to stage it now though?
Which part/feature? FSD Capability is the same: a future (i.e. - not yet available) software product or complete feature set that qualifies your existing car’s hardware for all intents and purposes as an autonomous vehicle. This is called FSD and is still being sold (locked in pricing) as a future product.How did that differ from what’s sold today?
Edit: “2014 - earlier 2016 Model S” Before 2014, Model S didn’t have that forward facing hardware included.Vast majority of Teslas (2012 - earlier 2016 Model S) on the road at that point only had HW1
Sorry, but if I were on the jury, and the fact could be proven that he was on his phone, would be a hands down win for Tesla.The lane markings were also not clear and the construction caution signs had fallen down (not readable). I could try to find them again, but someone just before the accident happened had later posted pics of the area showing how understandably a computer vision system needing to read lane lines could have been fooled. Playing a game on his phone (not paying attention to the road nor hands on the wheel) for at least 30 seconds before the crash seems nuts to even me that used and tested AP for years, then FSDb for the last year.
They said FSD works "in almost all circumstances." The only caveats were validation and regulation. This was not true then and still isn't true. They knew it didn't work because they had to fake the video (by not using the FSD software). They said it worked when they knew it didn't. I don't see any room for assumption or speculation.This requires a lot of assumed intentions and speculation.
They didn't use FSD software to drive the car! They were telling people the cars already drove themselves in most circumstances. They said the cars would drive themselves across the country in a year. They showed a video of a car driving itself with no disclaimer that the FSD software they were selling wasn't doing the driving.How was the 2016 demo video staged in any negative way?
Gaming of Thrones?Technically still golden, some assembly required by way of spray paint.
Sorry, but if I were on the jury, and the fact could be proven that he was on his phone, would be a hands down win for Tesla...
Here’s part of an article describing the first autopilot death In 2016.Not really. It was sold as a future product, albeit like most in the AV industry back then Tesla also was waaaay too optimistic. Note their disclaimers from the website back then: Autopilot
No, I’m not asking you what’s been added. It does no good to cloud the issue with smart summon, lane change improvements, etc. You made claims about the status in 2016 and I’m only pointing out what I see as errors in those claims. You are welcome to your opinions, as are we all, but factual information should be accurate.Which part/feature? FSD Capability is the same: a future (i.e. - not yet available) software product or complete feature set that qualifies your existing car’s hardware for all intents and purposes as an autonomous vehicle. This is called FSD and is still being sold (locked in pricing) as a future product.
If you’re asking what features sold today are different, then there’s a lot being sold now that didn’t exist in Oct 2016: smart summon (disclaimer disclaimer again yadda yadda), NoAP (auto lane change, human-supervised entrance ramp to exit ramp freeway driving, sentry mode, various games and Easter eggs (light show, voice changer, live remote camera views), red light and stop sign controls, added visualizations and object recognition (cones, pedestrians, dogs, cats, bicyclists, SUV, pickup trucks, semis, etc.), charging network improvements and new features, and I’m sure I’m missing others. Which brings another point I’ve been thinking about, we seem to easily get used to many of these features and therefore we forget 1) how no other cars have this or that feature and 2) it’s harder and harder to remember when Tesla brought certain features that I now take for granted and only really notice.think about when I’m driving another car.
Then there’s the feature set included in FSDb that‘s not sold, but is now available to the public for early access testing.
They said FSD works "in almost all circumstances." The only caveats were validation and regulation. This was not true then and still isn't true. They knew it didn't work because they had to fake the video (by not using the FSD software). They said it worked when they knew it didn't. I don't see any room for assumption or speculation.
We need to make Full Self-Driving work in order for it to be a compelling value proposition.-- Elon Musk (summer of 2021)
They didn't use FSD software to drive the car! They were telling people the cars already drove themselves in most circumstances. They said the cars would drive themselves across the country in a year. They showed a video of a car driving itself with no disclaimer that the FSD software they were selling wasn't doing the driving.
A fake or staged video is created when you sell people X but show a video of Y doing what you falsely claim X can do (with no disclaimer about the switch). For example, Nikola created a fake video by towing a truck up a hill and then filming it coast down with the title “Nikola One Electric Semi Truck In Motion”. It's true the truck was in motion just like it's true the Tesla video used Tesla hardware. But in both cases the big thing that was strongly implied (the truck propelled by its own power, the Tesla driven with FSD software) was not true.
Wait. You’re making the same mistake of conflating Autopilot (which they did have a form of back then for owners) and FSD (which they didn’t claim to have available for owners yet). This is what’s leading to a lot of the confusion. Perhaps one could argue Tesla hasn’t done a good enough job trying to prevent the confusion, but it‘s hard selling something that is so advanced compared to other car makers, but isn’t autonomous driving. I’ve mentioned in many comments before, I see this confusion and conflation is largely due to our lack of how to conceive what’s in between lane keep assist (which AP is more than) and autonomous vehicles (no steering wheel or pedals needed). Most people seem to just see AV is the next logical step with nothing in between. It can either keep the lane and follow the speed of traffic without my intervention, or the next step is it can drive me while I nap in the backseat.Here’s part of an article describing the first autopilot death In 2016.
‘‘In its 537-word statement on the incident, the electric vehicle company repeatedly went out of its way to shift blame for the accident. The first paragraph notes that this was Tesla’s first known autopilot death in some 130 million miles driven by its customers. “Among all vehicles in the US, there is a fatality every 94 million miles,” the company then notes.”
So it was being used back then, and had been used by customers to drive 130 million miles thus far. Not technicians, customers. And back then it was touted as a product that made driving with autopilot safer than not using it. That was by no means a “future” product In 2016.
Dredging up disclaimers from old web pages does not allow one to claim it a then “future product”, it was being sold and used, just as it is today.
There’s a difference between delusion and optimism. I think he’s probably crystal clear in his mind as to the difficulty and time frame of development but saw a way to add an enormous amount to Tesla sales. I suspect it helped keep his company afloat during those lean times. I understand the motivation. I don’t agree with it but I do understand it.
Incidentally that accident report was and probably still is on line. There’s a lot there. It’s a real eye opener to see exactly what the car records and sends back to Tesla. And before you respond, know that I’ve visited the site of that accident, I’ve read the reports, I know the driving history of the involved trucker, I know the false claims he made about the video and the follow up investigation disproving those claims.
Which claims do think are factual information that I’m not getting correct?No, I’m not asking you what’s been added. It does no good to cloud the issue with smart summon, lane change improvements, etc. You made claims about the status in 2016 and I’m only pointing out what I see as errors in those claims. You are welcome to your opinions, as are we all, but factual information should be accurate.
I think we are in agreement on that point.Sorry, but if I were on the jury, and the fact could be proven that he was on his phone, would be a hands down win for Tesla.
Did anyone see the NYT article today that interviewed several Tesla drivers who were involved in various crashes? Several of them mentioned they were not paying attention to the road or were distracted...I'm not saying that a Tesla would never mess up, but the first consideration must be the attentiveness of the driver, and that applies to all vehicles on the road, not just driver-assist ones.
2021 Model SA little more confirmation: The car ADAS was active according to the government data which didn't contradict with the driver claimed: He didn't drive and he let the system drove for him, changed lane for him and even slowed down to 7 mph on the 50 mph zone.
We still don't know what year, software versions...
Tesla-induced pileup involved driver-assist tech, government data reveals
Mobileye should issue refunds to people who purchased that system.This isn’t the same as the Nikola One example. It’s interesting how people keep coming back to trying to tie them together. Should Waymo have put out marketing videos of drives that required interventions or rescuing stranded cars before they were selling the service? Should MobileEye not have posted the videos they did back in 2017 claiming they had an autonomous car? This video is still on their YouTube page and again I don’t see a problem with it:
Exactly!FSD was sold to people in 2016.