Tesla Radar Speculation

[Knightshade]

I hope so!

Of all the concerns, the fact that so far I haven't seen any attempt to fix fogging of b-pillar cams is problem enough.

Wiring harness comment was more about new cam locations up front.

One bit of speculation I've seen is new cams would go where the parking lights are up front- there's already power available there, and data could be wireless- making adds cams quite easy in that spot.

Swapping in existing locations even easier of course, and since they're already powered adding a heating element wouldn't be difficult either.

Needs a functional, trusted fsd product. Especially if you are aiming for big $$$$ anything.

Sure, but until they've got much improved functionality there'd be no reason to retrofit either--- HW2.x owners didn't get retrofit upgrades until it functionally mattered to them.

 

[Krash]

…Unless it's cheaper for them to fully refund FSD…

To me this is an interesting argument for Tesla not to upgrade cars until FSD comes out of Beta.

It is possible that HW3 + RCCB upgrade + HW4 + 4k cameras + labor is more than some payed for FSD.

But I know people are impatient and “want their stuffs” now.

 

[Battpower]

until they've got much improved functionality there'd be no reason to retrofit

Yes. So based on that the whole discussion is moot and basically means trusting Tesla might / will deliver 'something' one day, and once they have worked out what they owe purchasers, they should do the right thing. Hmm. So we are all good to go?!!

this is an interesting argument for Tesla not to upgrade cars until FSD comes out of Beta.

I'm sure that makes sense and would be reasonable..... BUT...

people are impatient

may be not without reason at some point. If purchased FSD was transferable, that would slightly address the issue.

adding a heating element wouldn't be difficult

You'd think not. But power maybe not as convenient depending on how much is needed. Cams use minimal. Heater will be more. At least 5 or 10 Watts I'd guess. Gortex patches on or off, replacement appliqués and multiple attempts to get the fogging issue fixed hasn't made any difference.

 

[Mike7564]

Hmmmm. Mid Jan and waiting patiently. Anyone hear anything new? Wonder if some discussion/announcement at the upcoming earnings call?

 

[r4intra]

Was wondering the same. Making a big deal about Vision and altering the production line to torch USS only to add radar and then strand 2M cars without features is suicide.

They would have saved the cost of USS for what, six months only to change it again? That’s gotta be $50M in savings. Risk the entire business? No way.

I bet “hw4” is just incremental improvement on fogging and reduction in cameras for cost savings.

Radar probably goes on the Semi.

 

[YW555]

So... it's Feb 7 and there's no update on the FCC website to disclose any additional detail regarding the radar: https://fccid.io/2AEIM-1541584

 

[Knightshade]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600252636728467456

That's the request letter-- seems like FCC wouldn't post anything until tomorrow earliest maybe?

 

[cab]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600252636728467456

That's the request letter-- seems like FCC wouldn't post anything until tomorrow earliest maybe?

I just posted same in another thread and was corrected...it was extended to 03/07....which will make it post investor day. See here: investor engineering discussion

 

[YW555]

I just posted same in another thread and was corrected...it was extended to 03/07....which will make it post investor day. See here: investor engineering discussion

Damn that sucks. I guess it's probably not going to be added to the Model 3 since the camo prototype had the front bump blocked.

 

[enemji]

Chances are, Tesla will cheap out and go for something with 10x less fidelity to chase profit margins instead or safety.

Tesla has never used the cheapest when it comes to technology. They have the best underneath the cosmetic shell that everyone looks at.

 

[enemji]

…This would work with parking, for example, although you'd have to wonder how it would handle "de novo" situations such as starting the car from a position where it had been parked for some time.

A save to memory such as what iOS does with its apps

 

[Knightshade]

A save to memory such as what iOS does with its apps

That can probably work for static objects that are the same before and after you parked...it won't help with anything that has entered (and remains in) the camera blind spots while the car was asleep of course...(animals, toddlers, toys, etc-- or even parts of other cars that parked really closely after the car went to sleep) though some early prototypes of CT appeared to show a new, additional, camera to deal with that sort of thing, which might solve this for HW4 vehicles at least.

 

[enemji]

Th

That can probably work for static objects that are the same before and after you parked...it won't help with anything that has entered (and remains in) the camera blind spots while the car was asleep of course...(animals, toddlers, toys, etc-- or even parts of other cars that parked really closely after the car went to sleep) though some early prototypes of CT appeared to show a new, additional, camera to deal with that sort of thing, which might solve this for HW4 vehicles at least.

Nothing can just appear within the blindspot without first being detected by one of the sentry cameras.

 

[Knightshade]

Th

Nothing can just appear within the blindspot without first being detected by one of the sentry cameras.

I guess you missed the word "asleep" in my post?

Because many folks don't run sentry 24/7/365. Especially at home. Or at all if battery <20%. Some folks don't even use it at all.

On top of that, yes, things CAN just appear within the blindspot without ever being seen by the cameras at all.

For example an animal could walk under a car parked in front of you and enter the front blindspot below the front cameras sight lines without ever being spotted and take a nap right under your car in a way you might run it over when leaving.

Again the low-mounted cam seen on the CT proto would fix the blind spot (but not the "not seeing things if Sentry mode is off and car sleeps) part.

 

[KArnold]

On top of that, yes, things CAN just appear within the blindspot without ever being seen by the cameras at all.

Seems you could put a Telsa-like spin on that thought.

"Depends on how you define "BlindSpot" (copyright name). In the new BlindSpot-Beta just released, we define it as everything external that the cameras can currently see and recognize. It does not extend to below the vehicle.".

And honestly, I'd be OK with that. If the cat walked under the car in front of me, fell asleep behind my right-rear wheel, and <well, you know> - I'm not sure I'd want Tesla to necessarily check or prevent that kind of scenario. Not to mention difficult for a potentially possible but extremely rare event. Yes, I realize that's an extreme example used to make a point.

 

[enemji]

I guess you missed the word "asleep" in my post?

Because many folks don't run sentry 24/7/365. Especially at home. Or at all if battery <20%. Some folks don't even use it at all.

On top of that, yes, things CAN just appear within the blindspot without ever being seen by the cameras at all.

For example an animal could walk under a car parked in front of you and enter the front blindspot below the front cameras sight lines without ever being spotted and take a nap right under your car in a way you might run it over when leaving.

Again the low-mounted cam seen on the CT proto would fix the blind spot (but not the "not seeing things if Sentry mode is off and car sleeps) part.

the solution therefore is simple. Owners will not have a choice whether to use sentry or not. It will be on by default and if they do turn it off, they will get a warning message that will convey the message of non-updated surroundings while the car is parked.

 

[enemji]

On top of that, yes, things CAN just appear within the blindspot without ever being seen by the cameras at all.

For example an animal could walk under a car parked in front of you and enter the front blindspot below the front cameras sight lines without ever being spotted and take a nap right under your car in a way you might run it over when leaving.

We are not living on the USS Enterprise. Things just cannot materialize into the blindspot from elsewhere bypassing the sentry vision.

Regarding a cat or a dog crawling underneath, where did it come from? a sewer hole underneath the car?

Autopilot

All new Tesla vehicles are equipped with the hardware needed for Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features, designed to improve functionality over time.

www.tesla.com

 

[Knightshade]

We are not living on the USS Enterprise. Things just cannot materialize into the blindspot from elsewhere bypassing the sentry vision.

Except, of course, they can.

Exactly the way I described.

If you park your car in a spot, and there's another car already in the spot in front of you, the only thing the camera ever saw was the empty space that is now in your blind spot as you pulled in. And which can have things move into it later if the other car stays there blocking the view of the ground.

The only thing the camera can see while parked with sentry on is... the other parked car.

An animal could- easily, walk under the other car, then walk under yours, without ever coming in to view of any camera on your vehicle (so could a random skateboard or pretty much anything that fits under a car and moves for that matter)


Do you need a picture or something?

Here ya go.

That's a random Tesla sentry still shot.

The upper left shows the front camera view.

Notice how the camera can not see the ground at all in front of the car? It can only see the hood of the other car parked nose in against it.

Thus- anything that moved first under THAT car, then under the Tesla and stayed there, would never be visible to the Tesla


Again, the low-mounted front cam on the CT prototype solves that issue-- so long as the car remains awake.

But we don't know if other Teslas will get that camera (or even technically if CT will)--- and we CAN be pretty sure the nearly 4 million existing Teslas won't get it.

the solution therefore is simple. Owners will not have a choice whether to use sentry or not.

So you're not ever allowed to use the car if the battery is below 20%? Or do you think Tesla will just let the battery sentry drain to nothing to make up for a lack of a front blind spot camera in this scenario?

All of which ignores even with it on it still can miss stuff in the blind spot.


Not only that- the picture points out there's additional blind spots because Sentry only uses 4 cameras.

Your diagrams all use 7.

In front of the fender cams, below the hoodline, is entirely blind in the 4-camera footage. The bottom left shot makes that super clear... it can't even see the front tire of the vehicle next to it when parked let alone the ground between the cars up there....So anything small (animal, toddlers, toy, etc) approaching from that direction wouldn't be seen either.


Lemme guess- Tesla will turn on all 7 cameras when parked in the future for this, near doubling sentry drain, while also making it mandatory?
(course- that STILL doesn't fix the front blind spot, just mostly cleans up the side ones ahead of the fender cams)

The straws at which you're grasping keep getting further away my dude.

 

[dckiwi]

Except, of course, they can.

Exactly the way I described.

If you park your car in a spot, and there's another car already in the spot in front of you, the only thing the camera ever saw was the empty space that is now in your blind spot as you pulled in. And which can have things move into it later if the other car stays there blocking the view of the ground.

The only thing the camera can see while parked with sentry on is... the other parked car.

An animal could- easily, walk under the other car, then walk under yours, without ever coming in to view of any camera on your vehicle (so could a random skateboard or pretty much anything that fits under a car and moves for that matter)


Do you need a picture or something?

Here ya go.

View attachment 904535


That's a random Tesla sentry still shot.

The upper left shows the front camera view.

Notice how the camera can not see the ground at all in front of the car? It can only see the hood of the other car parked nose in against it.

Thus- anything that moved first under THAT car, then under the Tesla and stayed there, would never be visible to the Tesla


Again, the low-mounted front cam on the CT prototype solves that issue-- so long as the car remains awake.

But we don't know if other Teslas will get that camera (or even technically if CT will)--- and we CAN be pretty sure the nearly 4 million existing Teslas won't get it.






So you're not ever allowed to use the car if the battery is below 20%? Or do you think Tesla will just let the battery sentry drain to nothing to make up for a lack of a front blind spot camera in this scenario?

All of which ignores even with it on it still can miss stuff in the blind spot.


Not only that- the picture points out there's additional blind spots because Sentry only uses 4 cameras.

Your diagrams all use 7.

In front of the fender cams, below the hoodline, is entirely blind in the 4-camera footage. The bottom left shot makes that super clear... it can't even see the front tire of the vehicle next to it when parked let alone the ground between the cars up there....So anything small (animal, toddlers, toy, etc) approaching from that direction wouldn't be seen either.


Lemme guess- Tesla will turn on all 7 cameras when parked in the future for this, near doubling sentry drain, while also making it mandatory?
(course- that STILL doesn't fix the front blind spot, just mostly cleans up the side ones ahead of the fender cams)

The straws at which you're grasping keep getting further away my dude.

*shrug*

Let's say you're correct and small animals can sneak up next to your car and hang out there until you drive over them - is this a critical problem that even needs solving?

Ultra sonic sensors have such high false positive rates that most people would likely ignore them unless they knew there was an object there anyway.

If you're really worried about this extreme edge case, make like a pilot and walk around your vehicle before getting in.

 

[enemji]

Except, of course, they can.

Exactly the way I described.

If you park your car in a spot, and there's another car already in the spot in front of you, the only thing the camera ever saw was the empty space that is now in your blind spot as you pulled in. And which can have things move into it later if the other car stays there blocking the view of the ground.

The only thing the camera can see while parked with sentry on is... the other parked car.

An animal could- easily, walk under the other car, then walk under yours, without ever coming in to view of any camera on your vehicle (so could a random skateboard or pretty much anything that fits under a car and moves for that matter)


Do you need a picture or something?

Here ya go.

View attachment 904535


That's a random Tesla sentry still shot.

The upper left shows the front camera view.

Notice how the camera can not see the ground at all in front of the car? It can only see the hood of the other car parked nose in against it.

Thus- anything that moved first under THAT car, then under the Tesla and stayed there, would never be visible to the Tesla


Again, the low-mounted front cam on the CT prototype solves that issue-- so long as the car remains awake.

But we don't know if other Teslas will get that camera (or even technically if CT will)--- and we CAN be pretty sure the nearly 4 million existing Teslas won't get it.






So you're not ever allowed to use the car if the battery is below 20%? Or do you think Tesla will just let the battery sentry drain to nothing to make up for a lack of a front blind spot camera in this scenario?

All of which ignores even with it on it still can miss stuff in the blind spot.


Not only that- the picture points out there's additional blind spots because Sentry only uses 4 cameras.

Your diagrams all use 7.

In front of the fender cams, below the hoodline, is entirely blind in the 4-camera footage. The bottom left shot makes that super clear... it can't even see the front tire of the vehicle next to it when parked let alone the ground between the cars up there....So anything small (animal, toddlers, toy, etc) approaching from that direction wouldn't be seen either.


Lemme guess- Tesla will turn on all 7 cameras when parked in the future for this, near doubling sentry drain, while also making it mandatory?
(course- that STILL doesn't fix the front blind spot, just mostly cleans up the side ones ahead of the fender cams)

The straws at which you're grasping keep getting further away my dude.

I see you belong to the 1% club of engineers who get stuck with a 1% problem with product design and cause delays in the release