This would make for a very interesting court case… Magnuson Moss Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act
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Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot
- Thread starter fholbert
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That's why they say "may"
If they can prove failing to install the update caused whatever issue you want fixed under warranty they can refuse to cover THAT issue under warranty.
Not sure how that'd be relevant to "car nags more" but could be very relevant to things like a battery warranty claim if you refused an update that fixed a BMS problem or something.
There's deliveries of vehicles with 2023.38.200.2 this week presumably addressing this recall: Model X Pending Deliveries - Postponed due to Firmware / Software Issues?
TeslaFi shows 2023.38.100.1 newly detected on December 7th that could be the original recall fix to allow deliveries, but unclear what's the difference from the .2 detected on the 11th. No sightings of the 2023.44.30 fix for existing vehicles yet.
Separately, similar to 23V-085 recall for FSD Beta, "While not concurring with the agency’s analysis, in the interest of resolving EA22-002…" shows regulators are able to get Tesla to change behaviors including preventing new vehicles from being delivered with active recall. Although in this case over a decade since potentially affected vehicles were delivered (oldest affected Model S from OCT 05, 2012), so it'll be interesting if regulators will be more quick to follow up on Autopilot / FSD potential recalls going forwards.
Yeah, lots of folks like to throw the MMWA card on the table and while the burden of proof is technically on the automaker to prove that something didn't cause damage, the burden of proof is effectively on the consumer to prove that something did cause the damage.
Is there another sucker out there that will buy FSD for $12,000 or are they all used up? Thermonuclear scam.
*operating in conjunction with the Autosteer on City Streets feature
Nowhere does it say that it will work on back roads when not in conjunction with the city streets feature.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW the one and only time I had any dealer (not Tesla) try and deny a warranty claim due to an unrelated mod simply speaking the name of the MMA made them immediately change their mind- as if they're only interested in hosing the folks who're unaware of their rights under it.
Getting pretty outside scope of the thread though--- that said the fact you can file in small claims without bumping into the mandator arb clause though leaves me pretty unconcerned about this.
ArchHamster
Member
Because we don't have wifi at our home parking spot, and I don't have a large data plan on my phone, installing updates involves a lot of time and traveling to a place with decent high speed. As such, we don't install all updates when we get notice they are available. And sometimes I don't install updates at all if I know the new version of FSDb is going to be (more) problematic.
But when we have taken our car in for warranty work, they always install ALL pending updates and do not ask permission to do so.
When it is a safety recall, our car has been updated (downloaded and installed) over LTE and that shows up both in our app and in the car when we arrive at it to drive off.
So, while I've avoided or delayed non-safety related FSDb updates, aside from turning off my LTE, there is no way to avoid safety updates. (The cottage we rent is off the cell grid so that delayed a forced LTE safety update but once I get on a highway in cell tower range, the car downloaded the update.)
Tha_Ape
Active Member
None of that is in the official NHTSA recall notice's "Description of Remedy Program" section.
Read the remedy... not the "defect".
"The remedy will incorporate additional controls and alerts to those already existing on affected vehicles to further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility whenever Autosteer is engaged, which includes keeping their hands on the steering wheel and paying attention to the roadway. Depending on vehicle hardware, the additional controls will include, among others, increasing the prominence of visual alerts on the user interface, simplifying engagement and disengagement of Autosteer, additional checks upon engaging Autosteer and while using the feature outside controlled access
highways and when approaching traffic controls, and eventual suspension from Autosteer use if the driver repeatedly fails to demonstrate continuous and sustained driving responsibility while the feature is
engaged."
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Right. It’s on the Tesla website. Same page where it says auto steer is only allowed on uncontrolled roads when used in conjunction with city streets feature.
I never said you can’t used it outside of controlled access highways after this update.
I’m pointing out that you stating it can be used on controlled access highways without city streets is your speculation, even though you listed it as a fact.
I am also speculating but am not trying to state my interpretation as fact.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
AFAIK, that just relates to downloading the update, you still need to allow it to install. There haven't been very strong evidence of updates actually installing themselves that convincing disproved it was not an accidental press that allowed it to schedule an install (it continually nags you to schedule a time to install and not that hard accidentally press it or if you have someone that shares your app, for them to press the update button when it pops up in the notifications instead of swiping to dismiss it).
For example, I got the notice for the window recall. I was previously on the pre-radar removal update and was never staged for the recall update, nor did it ever install by itself. I begrudgingly installed the 2022 Holiday update I was staged for because app functionality broke on cars still running the radar software, but so far I have not installed the later update that includes the window recall and it's approaching a year since that recall. So the suggestion of it automatically installing does not match my experience.
Tha_Ape
Active Member
I'm pretty sure I had the ability for the passenger to play solitaire while driving deactivated without any notice or update, but it was awhile ago.
The 2020 M3 I just purchased already has this limitation.
I have already received the shrill warning and alerting message on the display and the car braking - something to the effect “Autopilot has been turned off for failure to have your hands on the wheel. If this happens four more times, autopilot will be disabled."
I have already received the shrill warning and alerting message on the display and the car braking - something to the effect “Autopilot has been turned off for failure to have your hands on the wheel. If this happens four more times, autopilot will be disabled."
ArchHamster
Member
NHTSA. This isn't about safety. If it was then there is so much more to overregulate first. The oversized trucks being exempt from certain safety standards. Why should phones allow you to use them when they are traveling at car speeds. Why do modern cars even allow for speeding? With GPS and acceleration by wire, cars shouldn't allow you to speed ever. Then to the more ridiculous. Why can I enable dumb cruise control on back streets? Why aren't there accelerator nags to make sure you aren't just putting a brick on the accelerator?
I know I'm being a bit hyperbolic, especially more so at the end, and to be clear I'm not pro overregulation. I don't want speed governors, geofencing, etc. I'm mad that this is about politics. About applying rules unequally with the excuse of protecting a handful of useful idiots to distract us from what's actually happening here. From the rot infesting our government.
Mr. Jim
Member
So great, a few idiots who could not understand the limitations of the system will now make its use much less convenient.
Tennesseehorn
Reformed ICEAHOLIC
and is anyone surprised that people don't follow the rules/limitations of a feature. Again it's the "few" that screw over the "many"
Tennesseehorn
Reformed ICEAHOLIC
Bingo, it's nothing more than Tesla bashing and a lot probably comes from the "short-sellers". But the few always screw over the many in situations like this.
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