Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[dbldwn02]

First...can we stop arguing about the meaning of the word "Recall"? It added 7 pages of useless banter/arguments and got nowhere. It doesn't change anything but the stock price...take it to the T$LA forum/thread.

Second...
This could be the conspiracy theorist in me (which is only about 1% honestly), but does anyone think Tesla (not Elon) likes stuff like this? It makes it easy to say, "Well, we tried but we were stonewalled by 'the man'" It goes back to the 2016 description of Full-Self Driving. "The activation of these features are dependent on regulatory approval"

If the NHTSA pushed hard enough, do you think they could get Tesla to disable AP/FSDb completely? Does Tesla get to keep everyone's money? That would be a very interesting story. Keep nerfing the features enough to where they're not worth anything.

Third...
Has it been confirmed that AP/EAP Autosteer does or doesn't work on non-highway roads?

 

[ChiefMAC]

I just feel whenever a person operating a motor vehicle is behind the wheel of said vehicle they are one hundred percent responsible of the actions unless mechanical or other issues are proven to be out of ones physical control. In most of these instances if not all, it seems the operators of these vehicles failed to maintain proper control of their vehicle. Everything I have read IRT Autosteer (Auto Pilot) tells you to maintain control of steering wheel and to keep your attentiveness on the road and your surroundings.

 

[DrChaos]

Again, my point is that everytime Tesla lies, spins, gaslights, obfuscates, fails to deliver on time, etc... the brand suffers more and more. 99% of people do not want FSD(b), not becuase its unobtainable. It's because it doesn't do what it claims to do with the name and offers them nothing but babysitting duty.

It's time for a new CEO. JB Straubel is my #1.

If I were CEO or could tell a CEO what to do:

• Rename "Full Self Driving" to Advanced Autopilot Assist. Say that Full Self Driving is a research goal.
• Rename Autopilot to Autopilot Assist
• Three tiers: Base, Enhanced, Advanced. $0, $2500, $5000. Give everyone store credit for software upgrades for any price delta you paid above those, these can be used for future purchases for options, but not car.
• Tradeins to Tesla with Advanced Autopilot Assist on existing cars get $2000 off on new purchase of new car with AApA
• Put in a ****ing rain sensor for free.
• Offer a "tech upgrade" package to base model with full speaker activation and ultrasonics for $1200
• Put ultrasonics back in for LR & P for free.
• Stay off Twitter except to announce new products
• Hire professional PR and do what they tell you
• don't date anybody who has an Instagram following

 

[JHCCAZ]

Maybe.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, Buick once did a recall for errors in a model's owner manual. Owners were instructed to schedule an appointment with a dealer. The only thing the dealer did was put a new owner's manual in the glove box and remove the original if still there and of course try to sell new tires, wipers, etc and various services. LoL

 

[FordMME]

I had the exact same concerns till I started using it and slowly and steadily found out its quirks and areas of confidence. As of now, the only real time I need to pay attention to it's driving is construction zones. Otherwise it will drive, and get you where you need to be. I have also learned not to panic if and when it misses an exit, as it will reroute itself, and get you there.

I have no doubt it’s really cool. But if you’ve got to keep your hands on the wheel… what is the point? What do you actually do? Put your hands on the wheel heavily enough to satisfy the torque sensor, but light enough to not interfere with the autosteer? Touch the wheel once every 30 seconds? I don’t get it.

 

[wdolson]

It's time for a new CEO. JB Straubel is my #1.

If I were CEO or could tell a CEO what to do:

• Rename "Full Self Driving" to Advanced Autopilot Assist. Say that Full Self Driving is a research goal.
• Rename Autopilot to Autopilot Assist
• Three tiers: Base, Enhanced, Advanced. $0, $2500, $5000. Give everyone store credit for software upgrades for any price delta you paid above those, these can be used for future purchases for options, but not car.
• Tradeins to Tesla with Advanced Autopilot Assist on existing cars get $2000 off on new purchase of new car with AApA
• Put in a ****ing rain sensor for free.
• Offer a "tech upgrade" package to base model with full speaker activation and ultrasonics for $1200
• Put ultrasonics back in for LR & P for free.
• Stay off Twitter except to announce new products
• Hire professional PR and do what they tell you
• don't date anybody who has an Instagram following

I do agree that it is well past time for Tesla to have a less controversial CEO. I know a lot of people who won't buy a Tesla because of the current CEO.

 

[EVNow]

I thought we were talking about the brand here. Wouldn't we want a large portion of the population want something? Even if they potentially can't adfford it. Like tons of poeple (probably more than 1%) would love to have a BMW or an Audi. Brands that convey quality and performance.

Right - same way FSDb / AP - conveys cutting edge technology. Doesn't matter whether 99% of drivers can't or won't use it. I mean not just "conveys" ... it IS cutting edge.

That you expected to get full level 4 FSD for $2k shows how naive you were. If FSD was full hands/eyes free - it would be 100K. Not 2k. Competitors charge $2k or more for things that are not even 1% of FSD.

Here is what I wrote in 2019, March.

ps : I don't even consider robo taxis a near term possibility. We can come back to this issue in 2030 and see where we are.

 

[AndrewZ]

I just feel whenever a person operating a motor vehicle is behind the wheel of said vehicle they are one hundred percent responsible of the actions unless mechanical or other issues are proven to be out of ones physical control. In most of these instances if not all, it seems the operators of these vehicles failed to maintain proper control of their vehicle. Everything I have read IRT Autosteer (Auto Pilot) tells you to maintain control of steering wheel and to keep your attentiveness on the road and your surroundings.

If only everything were so cut and dry and people in the aftermath of terrible accidents resulting in damages, loss of loved ones, loss of future income and financial stability, etc weren’t very much inclined to go fight in court.

Now imagine what would happen in a full blown Robotaxi that gets into a bad accident with occupants and running software that puts liability on a for-profit multinational company.

 

[sublimejackman]

It's time for a new CEO. JB Straubel is my #1.

If I were CEO or could tell a CEO what to do:

• Rename "Full Self Driving" to Advanced Autopilot Assist. Say that Full Self Driving is a research goal.
• Rename Autopilot to Autopilot Assist
• Three tiers: Base, Enhanced, Advanced. $0, $2500, $5000. Give everyone store credit for software upgrades for any price delta you paid above those, these can be used for future purchases for options, but not car.
• Tradeins to Tesla with Advanced Autopilot Assist on existing cars get $2000 off on new purchase of new car with AApA
• Put in a ****ing rain sensor for free.
• Offer a "tech upgrade" package to base model with full speaker activation and ultrasonics for $1200
• Put ultrasonics back in for LR & P for free.
• Stay off Twitter except to announce new products
• Hire professional PR and do what they tell you
• don't date anybody who has an Instagram following

I would add in only two things:
-Physical stalk controls for the wiper and turn signals (should be illegal to bury wiper controls under a touchscreen)
-Exisiting purchases for any autopilot product follows the owner, not the car. Like a licensing seat. Clear licensing agreements on all future purcahses or subscriptions.

But otherwise, here here. Current CEO got us thru the trenchs of the startup, now an actual adult should take the reigns.

 

[DrChaos]

I have no doubt it’s really cool. But if you’ve got to keep your hands on the wheel… what is the point? What do you actually do? Put your hands on the wheel heavily enough to satisfy the torque sensor, but light enough to not interfere with the autosteer? Touch the wheel once every 30 seconds? I don’t get it.

You can even have the friction between knee and wheel serve as the de-nag. The trick also is to use only one hand and make sure the force is in the angular direction only, not pushing or pulling (there is no sensor for that). Then it's pretty light and easy.

The nags are greater at higher speed and when you aren't looking forward.

 

[sublimejackman]

Right - same way FSDb / AP - conveys cutting edge technology. Doesn't matter whether 99% of drivers can't or won't use it. I mean not just "conveys" ... it IS cutting edge.

That you expected to get full level 4 FSD for $2k shows how naive you were. If FSD was full hands/eyes free - it would be 100K. Not 2k. Competitors charge $2k or more for things that are not even 1% of FSD.

Here is what I wrote in 2019, March.

That's YEARS after it was promised to be delivered and after I paid. AP was revolutionary at the time, we all believed that robotaxis were next. No one pushed it more than Tesla and its CEO. However, by 2019 it was clear to everyone that robotaxis were a decade or more away.

Also, just because you think it's unrealistic, doesn't make it not gaslighting. Like we are still being gaslit that what was promised is being delivered, it's objectively not.

 

[EVNow]

That's YEARS after it was promised to be delivered and after I paid. AP was revolutionary at the time, we all believed that robotaxis were next.

Wrong.

I don't have the time now to go back and extract quotes to show you are wrong .... may be sometime later.

 

[sublimejackman]

Wrong.

I don't have the time now to go back and extract quotes to show you are wrong .... may be sometime later.

This really is just straight gaslighting and monday morning quarterbacking. Like Tesla has had that message on their website for half a decade saying "full self driving coming by the end of the year". That is called LYING and telling me that they aren't lying when they are is called gaslighting.

 

[EVNow]

This really is just straight gaslighting and monday morning quarterbacking. Like Tesla has had that message on their website for half a decade saying "full self driving coming by the end of the year". That is called LYING and telling me that they aren't lying when they are is called gaslighting.

You keep saying stuff that is simply wrong - and can be easily proven wrong.

Elon Musk rolled out Autopilot despite engineers’ safety concerns: report

Tesla roils

www.theverge.com

Typical disgruntled user who wants put all the blame on someone else.

Just accept that you drank ELon's Kool-Aid and move on. Don't say "everyone" did.

 

[dbldwn02]

This really is just straight gaslighting and monday morning quarterbacking. Like Tesla has had that message on their website for half a decade saying "full self driving coming by the end of the year". That is called LYING and telling me that they aren't lying when they are is called gaslighting.

You keep saying stuff that is simply wrong - and can be easily proven wrong.

Elon Musk rolled out Autopilot despite engineers’ safety concerns: report

Tesla roils

www.theverge.com

Typical disgruntled user who wants put all the blame on someone else.

Just accept that you drank ELon's Kool-Aid and move on. Don't say "everyone" did.

Can't we all just get along? You guys both have cool old cars in your avatars!

 

[dansev]

I have tried to keep up with this thread, but it's hard. Can someone tell me: do we know what this means yet? Is my suite of AP services going to change dramatically? Do we have any idea what's happening?

 

[wdolson]

I would add in only two things:
-Physical stalk controls for the wiper and turn signals (should be illegal to bury wiper controls under a touchscreen)
-Exisiting purchases for any autopilot product follows the owner, not the car. Like a licensing seat. Clear licensing agreements on all future purcahses or subscriptions.

But otherwise, here here. Current CEO got us thru the trenchs of the startup, now an actual adult should take the reigns.

I would say having the option to have the AP products follow the owner rather than stay with the car would be a good option, but some people who are moving away from Tesla and not coming back might want to sell their AP license with their car.

I also agree that a number of controls should be physical. Some minimal HVAC controls being physical is a safety feature IMO. Last winter when they moved the controls around I had a tough time starting the defroster when the windows were fogging up. I had to take my eyes off the road to find the location on the screen.

I have tried to keep up with this thread, but it's hard. Can someone tell me: do we know what this means yet? Is my suite of AP services going to change dramatically? Do we have any idea what's happening?

The changes will probably be fairly small. Exactly what is still unknown. One thing we're probably going to get is more frequent nags.

 

[fholbert]

I do agree that it is well past time for Tesla to have a less controversial CEO. I know a lot of people who won't buy a Tesla because of the current CEO.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/15nbggi

 

[sublimejackman]

You keep saying stuff that is simply wrong - and can be easily proven wrong.

Elon Musk rolled out Autopilot despite engineers’ safety concerns: report

Tesla roils

www.theverge.com

Typical disgruntled user who wants put all the blame on someone else.

Just accept that you drank ELon's Kool-Aid and move on. Don't say "everyone" did.

Imagine being so smug and confident in life that the answer to one of the world’s largest companies (a company whose stated goal is to make the world better) lying, gaslighting and preying on its customers is: well your an idiot for falling for it

 

[ChiefMAC]

If only everything were so cut and dry and people in the aftermath of terrible accidents resulting in damages, loss of loved ones, loss of future income and financial stability, etc weren’t very much inclined to go fight in court.

Now imagine what would happen in a full blown Robotaxi that gets into a bad accident with occupants and running software that puts liability on a for-profit multinational company.

I see your point.