Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[sublimejackman]

I would say having the option to have the AP products follow the owner rather than stay with the car would be a good option, but some people who are moving away from Tesla and not coming back might want to sell their AP license with their car.

Agreed. The seat would be a thing you could sell with the car or keep to another car.

 

[Dewg]

Can't we all just get along? You guys both have cool old cars in your avatars!

Nope. And here's why:

 

[MP3Mike]

Is my suite of AP services going to change dramatically?

Not from what we have seen.

Do we have any idea what's happening?

Take a look at this post.

 

[Mardak]

Where is the reset language. Is it still going to be one week.

Where is this photo from? I'm guessing it's a factory version 2023.38.200.1 (for 3/Y; .2 for S/X) that comes with FSD Beta 11.4.4. Previously the mention of "one week" shows up in the release notes with a dedicated page for "Full Self-Driving (Beta) Suspension" mentioning improper usage detection and "The FSD Beta feature can only be removed per this suspension method and it will be unavailable for approximately one week."

Thanks for the example of the updated message "Apply slight turning force to steering wheel" moved to the top with different styling.

@modl3mike do you see an entry in release notes perhaps titled "Autosteer Suspension"(?) as it seems like your photo indicates no FSD Capability.

 

[johnnyruz]

I have no idea about how Basic AP "rules" are implemented today, but with all of the Tesla AI do they not implement some logic for an "AP confidence score" based on the available cameras and other sensors? Maybe it already does or has always worked that way?

In other words, driver looking ahead on a straight road (highway, divided highway, etc.) with clear lane markings, results in a very high AP confidence score such that if I look at the screen for a few seconds I don't get nagged and can actually keep my hands off the wheel (maybe with some maximum allowed time without wheel torque). But if I'm on a windy road or going through a section where it detects stop signs, traffic lights, lanes aren't marked, I'm looking away from the road, or otherwise distracted, then the confidence score drops, and it requires more regular input or completely disables AP for that section of the road. If I fail to input or take over in response to a prompt and it disables automatically that's a "strike". Or some egregious events like the cabin camera/seat weight sensor detects there is no-one in the driver seat immediately trigger a "take over now!" with a strike if not acknowledged right away.

I think there may actually already be some of this logic in place based on the variable frequency of nags depending on the driving conditions and speed, but to be fair I've had FSDb enabled through my 3-month trial so I won't have much experience with the behavior of Basic AP until next month.

So ultimately is the resolution to this just an adjustment to what it does today:

1. A refinement of the model that detects inattentiveness and suitable AP use conditions based on interior/exterior cameras, input sensors, and driving dynamics.
2. More effective alerting and UI to notify the driver they need to provide some type of input.
3. The strikeout system if the driver does not respond to prompts or the model detects some egregious violation (which inevitably raises the "false-strikes" conversation from FSDb).

Seems like they could satisfy the NHTSA and enable "hands-free" driving in appropriate conditions for Basic API without resulting to geo-fencing or other more restrictive solutions.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

(maybe with some maximum allowed time without wheel torque).

They can tell if your hands are likely on the wheel, using the cabin camera, even though it cannot see the wheel or your hands.

So they don’t need to exclusively look for wheel torque - they just need a visual to provide them a confident assessment that your hands are likely on the wheel.

In the end the wheel torque sensor is kind of a last resort, when they aren’t sure about your hands.

As far as I can tell it may work this way, to an extent, though it seems to me they sometimes still rely on the wheel torque unnecessarily. I would guess they are not as good as a human at extrapolating the position of your hands.

It’s critically important of course that hands be on the wheel at all times - FSDb is certainly not a license to drive without hands, and won’t be as long as it is an L2 assist.

 

[bobsmy]

How will this impact my robotaxi which is valued at $100,000?

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Tonight I was almost rear-ended by someone on Human Pilot.
Had they been on AP, there would have been no issue.
While using AP, I'm 100% more concerned I'll be hit than my car will hit something.

 

[dbldwn02]

While using AP, I'm 100% more concerned I'll be hit than my car will hit something.

Because of the phantom braking? Lol...jk...you just tee'd that one up perfectly.

 

[rlsd]

Breaking News: NHTSA issues a recall for their recall.

Yes. That's what OpenAI did to Sam Altman

 

[enemji]

I have no doubt it’s really cool. But if you’ve got to keep your hands on the wheel… what is the point? What do you actually do? Put your hands on the wheel heavily enough to satisfy the torque sensor, but light enough to not interfere with the autosteer? Touch the wheel once every 30 seconds? I don’t get it.

I keep my left hand on the wheel, while the right hand is free That being said, I don't know what else my hands would be doing. Sit like a passenger holding the door handles?

 

[enemji]

Business and Political opinions should never be mixed. No business should EVER take a political stance. IF you serve coffee, just make sure you serve the best coffee. We don't care about coffee makers political opinions.

 

[enemji]

The "full self driving" I was promised on a stack of bibles by multiple Tesla employees (including the CEO of the company) in 2017 had failed to materialize. And I spent additional money over EAP for nothing.

and that is the crux of why Tesla will never do marketing campaigns. Every owner needs to do their own homework before making such a big capital decision. Same goes for venturing in the stock trades. You cannot listen to the wolf of wall street and then blame your losses onto their "guidance".

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

I keep my left hand on the wheel, while the right hand is free That being said, I don't know what else my hands would be doing. Sit like a passenger holding the door handles?

I’ve always wondered what these folks that can’t keep one hand on the wheel are doing that needs both hands. Or perhaps it would be better not to know…

 

[rlsd]

It's a new feature, not a recall. If it's a recall then Tesla stock should go down today.

 

[zoomer0056]

What part is clickbait?

By definition, all news media titles are click-bait.

 

[johnnyruz]

It’s critically important of course that hands be on the wheel at all times - FSDb is certainly not a license to drive without hands, and won’t be as long as it is an L2 assist

That's totally fair - I guess my comments were more around capabilities of Basic AP compared to other L2 ADAS systems, specifically thinking BlueCruise which very prominently touts that it enables totally hands-free driving in certain "zones". I'm just theorizing that Tesla could (and may already!) dynamically determine these "zones" while driving using the camera and sensor suite rather than some pre-approved database. This would enable fully hands-free operation on highways and long stretches of straight country roads with limited cross-traffic (unless the driver is observed to not be paying attention), in less ideal scenarios still fully allow AP but increase the hands on the wheel & attentiveness checks, or disable AP entirely if you're in a city or very curvy road where use of Basic AP is of little value and can actually become dangerous.

Basically, trying to find a happy medium of safety and idiot-proofing without going so far as to neuter AP to the point where it truly just becomes Lane Keep Assist + Adaptive Cruise and is only allowed in very specific pre-programmed locations which could be out of date. All of that being said, 99% of the time I only use AP on controlled access highways with at least one hand on the wheel as intended.

 

[fholbert]

By definition, all news media titles are click-bait.

Tell me, what would you know without the media?

 

[sublimejackman]

and that is the crux of why Tesla will never do marketing campaigns. Every owner needs to do their own homework before making such a big capital decision. Same goes for venturing in the stock trades. You cannot listen to the wolf of wall street and then blame your losses onto their "guidance".

Don't worry, I will never make that mistake again. Esp with Tesla. Why I bought a used one this time. Good thing those wolves ate all us sheep, shall take my homework-skipping money elsewhere

 

[timk225]

I'm not installing this new software update, at least not until I read more about it from other people. As it is, I have to touch the steering wheel / move my 19 ounce steering wheel de-nagger weight once every 10-11 miles. I have a 20 mile highway drive to and from work, and one de-nagger weight repositioning per ride is enough.

I rarely use my basic AP outside of highways, so that shouldn't be a big deal. And I taped over the rear view mirror spy camera months ago, so that way of nagging me won't work.

But it is gonna be a pain, the UI will start pestering me to install the new update every single time I get in the car. Not gonna!