Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[islandbayy]

Would be nice if we could leave "No Unnecessary Lane Changes" option on for EVERY drive. Thats the only way ive been able to mitigate all these random lane changes into turning lanes and what not.

 

[dansev]

I regret it. Basically beeps with red hands and mutes your music ~4 seconds after engaging. To avoid it you have to tug on the wheel with constant force so that when the timer elapses it detects torque at that instant, there are no averages or second chances. I tried many combinations of things over a few dozen trials. Rarely I've seen it be as low as 2 seconds and as high as 13 seconds, not sure why that was happening.

This algorithm is stupid and annoying.

(I have my cabin camera covered at all times. So keep that in the context of what I’m saying.) When I engage autopilot, I do get the immediate nag and interruption of my audio source that you’re describing. It is annoying. But that seems to be the extent of the recall’s intrusiveness for me. I haven’t really noticed anything else. It seems like the nags may be more prominent, but I haven’t noticed them as being more frequent. Overall, I was bracing for the worst, and I can live with this.

I’m taking a 2 hour drive today, and will test out different scenarios with autopilot, both with the cabin camera, covered, and uncovered. Will report back.

 

[michael805]

I regret it. Basically beeps with red hands and mutes your music ~4 seconds after engaging. To avoid it you have to tug on the wheel with constant force so that when the timer elapses it detects torque at that instant, there are no averages or second chances. I tried many combinations of things over a few dozen trials. Rarely I've seen it be as low as 2 seconds and as high as 13 seconds, not sure why that was happening.

This algorithm is stupid and annoying.

I’ve noticed this too. I’m getting the instant beeps/nags right after engaging (but then seems to settle down after a few minutes).

One question I have if anyone knows: do these instant nags after engaging count towards the three nag “autopilot unavailable until new drive” lockout?

Trying to avoid any strikes.

 

[KArnold]

do these instant nags after engaging count towards the three nag “autopilot unavailable until new drive” lockout?

Only if you don't respond with mitigating action. On my car (legacy MS) a nag is

1) silent toaster pop-up, then
2) flashing IC still silent, then
3) audible red warning with red icon

Each one is a few seconds. It's like going to #3 every time you engage FSD so it quickly becomes muscle memory. Rest of FSDb nags past this one appear the same as before for me.

 

[Supcom]

Update on my "Does Tesla push and INSTALL" an update experiment.

I've commented in the past that we recall coming down to the car and seeing a notice that new software has been installed. Others have claimed that the download may be forced but the INSTALL is something one has control over.

On December 22, we first saw the download icon. We've been ignoring it ever since and since we don't have wifi, there was no risk of accidentally downloading it.

Today I was looking at Teslafi to see whether we'll be getting .5.1 or .6.

Turns out we already have 2023.44.30.2

Teslafi tells me it was installed on December 20. It was logged in Teslafi as "New" and "Waiting for Wifi to Download" at 01:20 and installed at 16:52 that same day.

Interestingly, the car was in motion at the time of the install according to Teslafi. That seems odd. I wasn't in the car during that trip so can't comment on whether there was any indication of the install, the driver didn't notice anything.

Teslafi is logging 2023.44.30.5.1 was marked as New and Waiting for Wifi at 20:22 on December 22. And still it waits.

But this answers the question, will Tesla force an update upon a car using LTE? We thought it had in the past but now I have the Teslafi update logo confirming this to be so.

(A regular update, accepted by me, has the following lines in the Teslafi Log: New, Waiting for Wifi, Downloading, Available, Scheduled for install, Installing, Installed.)

I went through my Teslafi logs and every update with an NA preface had the same pattern, New and then Installed hours, or in the case of the October 12 update NA-2023.20.14566 7 days later.

Edited to add: I thought the screen looked slightly different but since I don't use FSDb and my husband said everything was the same, I thought I was wrong.

The reason I had Teslafi open was that on a drive tonight my husband said the car alarmed 3 times and the screen gave a low tire pressure warning. He checked the tire pressure and it was fine so he didn't get off the highway. I had Teslafi open to see if the tire pressure was still showing the same in all tires. It is.

It is not possible to install a software update while the car is in use. There is something wrong with Teslafi.

It is curious that you are using Teslafi as your software version source. Why don't you use either the software page in the car or the tesla app on your phone?? Either of these would be a better source. You could also look for one of the new features, such as the ability to assign a custom lock chime.

 

[ItsErik]

Update on my "Does Tesla push and INSTALL" an update experiment.

I've commented in the past that we recall coming down to the car and seeing a notice that new software has been installed. Others have claimed that the download may be forced but the INSTALL is something one has control over.

On December 22, we first saw the download icon. We've been ignoring it ever since and since we don't have wifi, there was no risk of accidentally downloading it.

Today I was looking at Teslafi to see whether we'll be getting .5.1 or .6.

Turns out we already have 2023.44.30.2

Teslafi tells me it was installed on December 20. It was logged in Teslafi as "New" and "Waiting for Wifi to Download" at 01:20 and installed at 16:52 that same day.

Interestingly, the car was in motion at the time of the install according to Teslafi. That seems odd. I wasn't in the car during that trip so can't comment on whether there was any indication of the install, the driver didn't notice anything.

Teslafi is logging 2023.44.30.5.1 was marked as New and Waiting for Wifi at 20:22 on December 22. And still it waits.

But this answers the question, will Tesla force an update upon a car using LTE? We thought it had in the past but now I have the Teslafi update logo confirming this to be so.

(A regular update, accepted by me, has the following lines in the Teslafi Log: New, Waiting for Wifi, Downloading, Available, Scheduled for install, Installing, Installed.)

I went through my Teslafi logs and every update with an NA preface had the same pattern, New and then Installed hours, or in the case of the October 12 update NA-2023.20.14566 7 days later.

Edited to add: I thought the screen looked slightly different but since I don't use FSDb and my husband said everything was the same, I thought I was wrong.

The reason I had Teslafi open was that on a drive tonight my husband said the car alarmed 3 times and the screen gave a low tire pressure warning. He checked the tire pressure and it was fine so he didn't get off the highway. I had Teslafi open to see if the tire pressure was still showing the same in all tires. It is.

Do you have a screenshot of how your Teslafi software updates log looks?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Update on my "Does Tesla push and INSTALL" an update experiment.

I've commented in the past that we recall coming down to the car and seeing a notice that new software has been installed. Others have claimed that the download may be forced but the INSTALL is something one has control over.

On December 22, we first saw the download icon. We've been ignoring it ever since and since we don't have wifi, there was no risk of accidentally downloading it.

Not having wifi or not isn't relevant to recall updates, which can download over LTE. Are you certain you haven't been careless about about accidental clicks of the schedule install (or install now) button because of this (you assuming any update would not download).

Today I was looking at Teslafi to see whether we'll be getting .5.1 or .6.

Turns out we already have 2023.44.30.2

Teslafi tells me it was installed on December 20. It was logged in Teslafi as "New" and "Waiting for Wifi to Download" at 01:20 and installed at 16:52 that same day.

Interestingly, the car was in motion at the time of the install according to Teslafi. That seems odd. I wasn't in the car during that trip so can't comment on whether there was any indication of the install, the driver didn't notice anything.

Updates can't install while car is in motion, so something is wrong with your logging.

Teslafi is logging 2023.44.30.5.1 was marked as New and Waiting for Wifi at 20:22 on December 22. And still it waits.

But this answers the question, will Tesla force an update upon a car using LTE? We thought it had in the past but now I have the Teslafi update logo confirming this to be so.

(A regular update, accepted by me, has the following lines in the Teslafi Log: New, Waiting for Wifi, Downloading, Available, Scheduled for install, Installing, Installed.)

I don't know how Teslafi works, but does it show the same lines even if you press the update now (instead of scheduling one for later)?

I went through my Teslafi logs and every update with an NA preface had the same pattern, New and then Installed hours, or in the case of the October 12 update NA-2023.20.14566 7 days later.

Edited to add: I thought the screen looked slightly different but since I don't use FSDb and my husband said everything was the same, I thought I was wrong.

The reason I had Teslafi open was that on a drive tonight my husband said the car alarmed 3 times and the screen gave a low tire pressure warning. He checked the tire pressure and it was fine so he didn't get off the highway. I had Teslafi open to see if the tire pressure was still showing the same in all tires. It is.

 

[islandbayy]

Tesla forcing an actual UPDATE is a Rocky Situation. They do send them via cellular if necessary. Actually, if you wait long enough, ALL updates will EVENTUALLY download VIA Cellular.

As for the actual INSTALLATION of an update.... One major LEGAL can of worms that would open up. That would be, the Vehicle is INOPERABLE during the length of time the update is being installed. Weather that be 1 minute or 2 hrs. Doesn't matter. Being inoperable completely like that, if there were say, an emergency, and someone needed to get to the hospital quickly, or say, trying to escape a home invasion (Extreme, but it can happen! Examples...). Now say someone died or was injured because of the forced update, litigation would take forever, however, strong case could be made that Tesla was liable.
At least with the owner choosing to install themselves, they are presented with the warning about the car being inoperable, and the owner/driver would then be aware that it would be unavailable in a situation, and/or can schedule it for a time of their choosing.

I don't see them forcing the actual install. Download? Yes, Endless Nags? Absolutely, Inconvenient nags? Yes. Forced install? Don't think so.

Could also open up to a possible lawsuit of unauthorized access of a computer system. Likely wouldn't win that one, but the endless litigation would surely look bad for Tesla.

 

[zroger73]

As for the actual INSTALLATION of an update.... One major LEGAL can of worms that would open up. That would be, the Vehicle is INOPERABLE during the length of time the update is being installed. Weather that be 1 minute or 2 hrs. Doesn't matter. Being inoperable completely like that, if there were say, an emergency, and someone needed to get to the hospital quickly, or say, trying to escape a home invasion (Extreme, but it can happen! Examples...). Now say someone died or was injured because of the forced update, litigation would take forever, however, strong case could be made that Tesla was liable.
At least with the owner choosing to install themselves, they are presented with the warning about the car being inoperable, and the owner/driver would then be aware that it would be unavailable in a situation, and/or can schedule it for a time of their choosing.

At least a few times over the years, I've walked up to an ICEV and found that it was inoperable due to a dead battery or flat tire or failed starter motor. I've never heard of anyone winning a lawsuit against an automaker because their car wouldn't start.

 

[wdolson]

At least a few times over the years, I've walked up to an ICEV and found that it was inoperable due to a dead battery or flat tire or failed starter motor. I've never heard of anyone winning a lawsuit against an automaker because their car wouldn't start.

And the remedy for waiting for an update to finish vs those other scenarios is usually quicker and easier. Tesla tells you the car will be inoperable for 45 minutes, but it's usually closer to 15 in my experience. Waiting for roadside service to get a jumpstart or deal with a flat tire (most cars don't have spares anymore) will usually take longer than waiting for an update to finish.

It's annoying, but rarely a serious problem.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Tesla forcing an actual UPDATE is a Rocky Situation. They do send them via cellular if necessary. Actually, if you wait long enough, ALL updates will EVENTUALLY download VIA Cellular.

I would dispute this. My record is over 4 months, but others have gone years without updating.

As for safety recalls, though, yes, those are pushed over LTE.

 

[Supcom]

And the remedy for waiting for an update to finish vs those other scenarios is usually quicker and easier. Tesla tells you the car will be inoperable for 45 minutes, but it's usually closer to 15 in my experience. Waiting for roadside service to get a jumpstart or deal with a flat tire (most cars don't have spares anymore) will usually take longer than waiting for an update to finish.

It's annoying, but rarely a serious problem.

There's a big difference between losing access to your car because of a failure vs. the manufacturer intentionally shutting it down with no prior notice. Even if there were no life-threatening emergency, who wants to come out of the house, restaurant or convenience store to a car that mysteriously started an installation?

If Tesla were going to 'force' an installation, one would certainly hope that they would warn you well in advance so that you could perform the installation at a convenient time of your choosing.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

The plot thickens (yesterday was our family Christmas so I was exhausted when I spotted the log and was focused only on that surprise).

Both the Tesla App and the top of Teslafi indicate I still have 2023.27.7 So the logging section on teslafi disagrees with the banner with the status of my car. Since the announcement of the recall, I've been watching which update the app has said that I had to see if it changed without our knowing (i.e. pushed and installed over LTE). As that had not been changing, I've just kept watching for car behaviours to see if something had changed without notification. Teslafi change log says

(and this morning I had a 12 hour old notification from the app that my tire pressure is low in one tire but the original notification that happened in the car happened 13 hours ago and I had opened the app 10 hours ago and not received any notice that there was a low tire. Teslafi still shows all tires are fine and at this point I'm too tired to go downstairs and pull out the tire air pressure gauge to measure by hand.)

For those that asked, here are the logs from Teslafi. The second one shows my 'current' version which conflicts with the information in the first log.

 

[zroger73]

There's a big difference between losing access to your car because of a failure vs. the manufacturer intentionally shutting it down with no prior notice. Even if there were no life-threatening emergency, who wants to come out of the house, restaurant or convenience store to a car that mysteriously started an installation?

My iPhone automatically installs updates overnight. I have picked it up during the night and been unable to use it because of this. Fortunately, it was only to check for messages and not to make an emergency call.

 

[MP3Mike]

Both the Tesla App and the top of Teslafi indicate I still have 2023.27.7 So the logging section on teslafi disagrees with the banner with the status of my car. Since the announcement of the recall, I've been watching which update the app has said that I had to see if it changed without our knowing (i.e. pushed and installed over LTE). As that had not been changing, I've just kept watching for car behaviours to see if something had changed without notification. Teslafi change log says

That looks like when Tesla pulled the offered 2023.44.30.2 version from your car, before they made 2023.44.30.5.1 available to you, that TeslaFi just marked 2023.44.30.2 as installed instead of pulled. So, a bug in TeslaFi.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Not having wifi or not isn't relevant to recall updates, which can download over LTE. Are you certain you haven't been careless about about accidental clicks of the schedule install (or install now) button because of this (you assuming any update would not download).

Yes. We are certain. We do regular installations, taking the car somewhere to hop on wifi and do a download so we are aware of what screens come up.

Especially in this case, as it was a full experiment of what tesla would do in the case of an OTA recall (the last one we chose to download and install.) This was the chance to answer that question.

Updates can't install while car is in motion, so something is wrong with your logging.

That's what I thought. That is logical. So that's why I looked up what was happening the day of the install and was shocked to see the timing corresponded to the car being driven. It was three short drives (to the post office with the car stopped for 3 minutes, to the store during which time the install happened but then the car was stopped for 9 minutes, home) and so while one might consider the car was awake so an install can happen, it makes no sense the install happened during a drive. Which is why I mentioned it.

I don't know how Teslafi works, but does it show the same lines even if you press the update now (instead of scheduling one for later)?

No. I thought that it went straight to installing without the Available, but that isn't true in all cases. That happens some times. Other times, the "Software Update Feed" is confusing with things showing installed there but not in the "Your Software Updates" log.

In the attached log from the summer you can see a download started unintentionally (I didn't want this update and forgot the car had the login for his wifi) at our son's and we just happened to drive off before it completed. It kept trying to download through the summer.

The "Your Software Updates" log shows I never installed 2023.7.20, instead jumping straight to installing .30 on September 11 (after downloading that unintentionally while at the cabin in August which has no LTE service so the car was connected to the wifi there.) So the install of 2023.7.20 only shows on the "Software Update Feed" section on Teslafi. The install date for .30 corresponds to the "Software Updates" section, but .20 install doesn't show at all in that section.

If anyone knows why the discrepancy between the Teslafi "Software Updates" and "Software Update Feed" sections, I'd appreciate knowing. To me, it feels like tesla is doing stealth updates that are not significant enough to be tracked at a full software update.

 

[Supcom]

My iPhone automatically installs updates overnight. I have picked it up during the night and been unable to use it because of this. Fortunately, it was only to check for messages and not to make an emergency call.

iPhones have (or had) a setting that will enable/disable automatic updates.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

That looks like when Tesla pulled the offered 2023.44.30.2 version from your car, before they made 2023.44.30.5.1 available to you, that TeslaFi just marked 2023.44.30.2 as installed instead of pulled. So, a bug in TeslaFi.

As I pointed out to u/stopcrazypp something similar happened over the summer where 2023.7.20 was shown as installed on August 31 (after spending all summer trying to download) the day 2023.7.30 was offered to me, and then that downloaded and I chose to install that in September. Yet, as far as I was aware (and the Your Software Updates log, which is different from the "Software Update Feed" log, shows) I never had 2023.7.20 at all.

The reason in this case for avoiding the update was I didn't want FSDb 11.4.4 so I was holding off until 11.4.7 was offered at the end of the summer.

Edited to make this readable. I'm still too tired from yesterday.

 

[MP3Mike]

If anyone knows why the discrepancy between the Teslafi "Software Updates" and "Software Update Feed" sections, I'd appreciate knowing. To me, it feels like tesla is doing stealth updates that are not significant enough to be tracked at a full software update.

Like I said it just appears to be a bug in TeslaFi, where when an update is taken away from your car, before it has been installed, that TeslaFi logs it as "installed" when it should log it as "pulled" or "removed." There are no "stealth updates" applied by Tesla.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Like I said it just appears to be a bug in TeslaFi, where when an update is taken away from your car, before it has been installed, that TeslaFi logs it as "installed" when it should log it as "pulled" or "removed." There are no "stealth updates" applied by Tesla.

Thanks but I was hoping for a response from TeslaFi, not supposition. My supposition is tesla is doing stealth installs on our cars without letting us know that we have a different version installed.