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People also seem to have forgotten that "Vision-only" is yet to achieve parity with the Vision + Radar feature set (90mph limit and 1-"car" follow distance setting). "Coming soon" . And that was technically an easier solution seeing as their cameras are much better positioned for regular AP/FSD sensing than for what the USS are positioned to do. I wouldn't hold my breath on Tesla Vision achieving parity with USS any time soon.Judging by their success so far (e.g. auto wipers), It will take a while until they solve it so that it is comparable to USS.
Even if they solve it, there is a sw maintenance cost that increases exponentially with complexity. I thing we could agree that measuring distance with USS is way less complex than measuring using TV.
Then, there is the opportunity cost. From an average customer perspective (who does not really care about USS vs TV until that becomes an issue) there are higher priority problems that need solving - auto wipers, auto high beams, phantom braking, etc. It is clear that Tesla is more interested in cutting cost than serving the customer.
The photon count bit is only related to 10-bit RAW images which give significantly higher dynamic range than the 8-bit processed images they were using previously.Technically you could detect individual photons with a photomultiplier tube, which can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars depending on what you're looking for... But yeah, they're not using those in Teslas, either. Bundling enough of them together to make even a low-resolution "camera" would probably bring the cost and size to at least the scales you mentioned. And it would be practically useless for the application anyway. Basically just a fancy saturated photodiode at normal light levels.
Yes, the signal is proportional, but considering the number of photons involved in a change of 1 part in 2^10 in signal intensity, that's like saying you're counting water molecules with a pipette. It's all a bit beside the point of the thread, but I can see why the terminology irritates some people, or at least makes them roll their eyes.The photon count bit is only related to 10-bit RAW images which give significantly higher dynamic range than the 8-bit processed images they were using previously.
"Upgraded generalized static object network to use 10-bit photon count streams rather than 8-bit ISP tonemapped images by adding 10-bit inference support in the Al compiler stack. Improved overall recall by 3.9% and precision by 1.7%."
FSD Beta 10.9 (2021.44.30.10) Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
The reason why that "photon count" terminology is used in relation to RAW images, is because the signal the image pixel gets is generally directly proportional to the amount of photons captured by the given pixel, which is then amplified and converted to a digital number that is saved into a RAW file.
Information Transfer – The ISO Invariant Case
The pixels in the 8-bit images used previously however have no direct relation to the number of photons that hit that pixel.
They aren't talking however about a device that actually counts each individual photon (as you point out, it doesn't really add any advantage to this application).
It is a BS. They are not “counting photons”; they are just using RAW HDR instead of compressed image - something they should have been doing from day one, anyway.The photon count bit is only related to 10-bit RAW images which give significantly higher dynamic range than the 8-bit processed images they were using previously.
"Upgraded generalized static object network to use 10-bit photon count streams rather than 8-bit ISP tonemapped images by adding 10-bit inference support in the Al compiler stack. Improved overall recall by 3.9% and precision by 1.7%."
FSD Beta 10.9 (2021.44.30.10) Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
The reason why that "photon count" terminology is used in relation to RAW images, is because the signal the image pixel gets is generally directly proportional to the amount of photons captured by the given pixel, which is then amplified and converted to a digital number that is saved into a RAW file.
Information Transfer – The ISO Invariant Case
The pixels in the 8-bit images used previously however have no direct relation to the number of photons that hit that pixel.
They aren't talking however about a device that actually counts each individual photon (as you point out, it doesn't really add any advantage to this application).
Well there's not another really good term that really fits that well to describe what the values in the RAW files ultimately measure as opposed to tone-mapped images which typically have a boatload of other processing done to it (to try to match how humans perceive images).Yes, the signal is proportional, but considering the number of photons involved in a change of 1 part in 2^10 in signal intensity, that's like saying you're counting water molecules with a pipette. It's all a bit beside the point of the thread, but I can see why the terminology irritates some people, or at least makes them roll their eyes.
Given this was mentioned in the context of FSD Beta release notes that generally look written by engineers instead of polished by marketing, I find it more likely they are using a description that more closely describes what I mention in the comment above instead of trying to purposefully sound "sophisticated".It is a BS. They are not “counting photons”; they are just using RAW HDR instead of compressed image - something they should have been doing from day one, anyway.
It is almost childish how they come up with “sophisticated” terms for everyday things, just to sound cool:
“Photon counting” for RAW HDR
Auto Pilot for Adaptive Cruise Control
Full Self Driving for … driver assistance lane keeping?
The Kia offered a "special edition". Equipment removed was:The Kia uses HDA 2 just like the Hyundai above, presumably they still have HDA (which keeps the front radar)?
That sounds like an upstream chip that controls both. Are they bundled in a package? Do they still offer features that still use the radar (like FCW and AEB)? The BMWs seem to do that. Do you know if they actually removed the radar unit?
If you do want to get into the physics... The best justification for calling it a "count" would be that the number of electron-hole pairs created in the semiconductor lattice of the CCD pixel would be proportional to the number of incident photons over a certain energy threshold (but reduced by the finite cross-section of the reaction). This is in contrast to, for example, the total absorbed energy or the strength of the EM wave (macroscopic quantities that would be more analogous to the water-measurement example I gave). So in that sense, it's counting, but it's counting such an enormous number that in practical terms you might as well be dealing with a continuous variable when you actually go to design the circuits and write the software. It's also not unheard-of for engineers to frame things in a way that they know will sound buzzier for the management & marketing teams, so when there's a loose justification for calling it "photon counting" they very well could choose to do so. Even if it's not how they would look at the problem on a practical level.Well there's not another really good term that really fits that well to describe what the values in the RAW files ultimately measure as opposed to tone-mapped images which typically have a boatload of other processing done to it (to try to match how humans perceive images).
If talking about measuring water, you can talk about the "volume" of water (for example one gallon) or you can talk about the "mass" of water (for example 1 kg of water). You can get an approximation of how many molecules there are either way. However photons have neither volume nor mass, so can't really be described in such terms. I'm guessing that is why they described it as "count" (even though it is only an approximation).
I'd pat them on the back for counting vegan photons in batches of 10 million if they'd just install ultrasonics on my car.I also think that "photon count" is essentially correct but an unnecessary descriptor, possibly trying to sound Innovative or sophisticated, but ends up sounding forced. Kind of like saying "Infrasonic Rythmic Perception" instead of "Feeling the Bass".
The established and well-understood term here is simply "raw video". I can imagine that the "photon count" term might have been used in a meeting of the engineers, just to clarify to Elon or someone else who is technical but perhaps not particularly versed in the jargon of camera image processing. Then Elon liked it, picked it up and used it in one or two interviews and now it's all over the Tesla user community
Along similar lines @daktari just reminded me of "Vegan Leather" which seems to have become a popular term for synthetic leather upholstery inTeslas and all sorts of other products. To me, this is also an unnecessary name, a trendy but imprecise term for something that has other long-established names. I don't see anything "vegan" about it, other than it may contain some plant cellulose byproducts for body and texture, mixed in with the the petroleum-based thermoplastics, pigments, stabilizers and so on.
But hey, I can get used to Vegan Leather, Photon Counts and Ego Yaw-Control Planning if it gets me around the corner in comfort and safety.
A hopeless wish, I'm afraid. But do not feel alone. It will not be long before all of our Ultrasonics will have chirped their last.I'd pat them on the back for counting vegan photons in batches of 10 million if they'd just install ultrasonics on my car.
All that being said, I think CCD physics is actually beside the point, because the human-friendly image form of the data is just another representation of the same data that could be obtained as a flat array or 2D array directly from the sensor. It's no more or less of a photon count. Wasn't the original point something about the ML algorithms being trained on the raw feed from the sensor, thereby eliminating the need for some real-time image-processing steps? Seems like a separate issue from whether it is or isn't counting photons.
Coursework (not mime) on it showing transfer curves.Upgraded generalized static object network to use 10-bit photon count streams rather than 8-bit ISP tonemapped images by adding 10-bit inference support in the Al compiler stack.
Except that (to the public) raw video can mean unedited footage, versus the industry meaning of unprocessed. In that sphere, saying raw video adds nothing to their understanding.The established and well-understood term here is simply "raw video". I can imagine that the "photon count" term might have been used in a meeting of the engineers, just to clarify to Elon or someone else who is technical but perhaps not particularly versed in the jargon of camera image processing. Then Elon liked it, picked it up and used it in one or two interviews and now it's all over the Tesla user community
They said they wouldn't disable the sensors on those cars. Yet.I wonder if the previous Tesla with utra sonic sensors will get a new software update
to replace the use of the sensors with cameras, as this happen for the radar?
That makes it even scarier - engineers using inaccurate terms.Given this was mentioned in the context of FSD Beta release notes that generally look written by engineers instead of polished by marketing, I find it more likely they are using a description that more closely describes what I mention in the comment above instead of trying to purposefully sound "sophisticated".