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Tesla Semi delivery event, 1 December 2022

Elon clearly stated that the CT will use the MW charger.


The new V4 chargers are the MW chargers. You need to go back review the Semi presentation.
No they are not. The V4 design in drawings do not have the MCS charger cord or handle. They use the existing Tesla handle and V3 type cord. If it is as you say, all the new SC planned to use V4 would be incompatible with ALL current Tesla vehicles except the semi. Why would they build 12 stall chargers with passenger vehicle size back in spaces for Semis?

Like Rocky pointed out, it’s about the 1000V and MW architecture and necessarily the charging standard.

Assuming the same power capacity of V3 but changing to 1000V architecture means V4 chargers get 625kw top end charging rate vs 250kw of V3. This would require no change in current wiring because the current draw would remain the same. It would allow the Cybertruck battery to be up to 2.5x larger (200kwh) and still charge in the same amount of time as a MY/M3. They have done the same thing with SR vs LR vehicles. LR has 50% larger battery (82 vs 55) but 50% faster charging (48A vs 32A and 250kw vs 150kw) so charging times are roughly the same. This looks to carry over with the CT.
 
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They use the existing Tesla handle and V3 type cord.
Not the same cord, no. The V4 can handle up to 900A and 1 MW. I'm pretty sure V3 could not.
If it is as you say, all the new SC planned to use V4 would be incompatible with ALL current Tesla vehicles except the semi. Why would they build 12 stall chargers with passenger vehicle size back in spaces for Semis?
OK
 
No they are not. The V4 design in drawings do not have the MCS charger cord or handle. They use the existing Tesla handle and V3 type cord. If it is as you say, all the new SC planned to use V4 would be incompatible with ALL current Tesla vehicles except the semi. Why would they build 12 stall chargers with passenger vehicle size back in spaces for Semis?

Like Rocky pointed out, it’s about the 1000V and MW architecture and necessarily the charging standard.

Assuming the same power capacity of V3 but changing to 1000V architecture means V4 chargers get 625kw top end charging rate vs 250kw of V3. This would require no change in current wiring because the current draw would remain the same. It would allow the Cybertruck battery to be up to 2.5x larger (200kwh) and still charge in the same amount of time as a MY/M3. They have done the same thing with SR vs LR vehicles. LR has 50% larger battery (82 vs 55) but 50% faster charging (48A vs 32A and 250kw vs 150kw) so charging times are roughly the same. This looks to carry over with the CT.
@TSemi i edited this after you disagreed so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt to change it but you seem to Be doubling down that you are the only person who knows anything about the Semi and your word is gospel. There have been lots of holes and contradictions pointed out and you have yet to acknowledge that you were wrong.
 
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The slide says 1MW+. So they allude to more than a MW. They just didn't provide many details. But we can figure it out from what they have said.

  • Elon said the truck is 1.7kWh per mile.
  • 500 mile range means the battery is ~850kWh.
  • The site says "Recover up to 70 percent of range in 30 minutes using Tesla’s Semi Chargers."
  • You have to be able to charge 350 miles, or 595 kWh, in 30 minutes.
  • That means that it has to average 1.2MW over the 30 minute 70% charge.
It seems highly unlikely that it will hold 1.2MW for 30 minutes, so it is likely to start at ~1.6MW and ramp down as the SoC increases.

Of course that claim is for when charging a "Semi Charger", not at a Supercharger.

tl;dr: With what they have shared 1MW would not meet the claims that they have made. (It would only give you ~290 miles of range in 30 minutes, or a ~58% charge, and that is if it held 1MW for the entire 30 minutes.)
I looked at the video on the Tesla Semi website and watched it closely and it does look like the charger handle is a MCS connector.
 
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but you seem to Be doubling down that you are the only person who knows anything about the Semi and your word is gospel.
My apologies if I come across that way. I do tend to argue like a trail lawyer...:D
There have been lots of holes and contradictions pointed out and you have yet to acknowledge that you were wrong.
Well ok.
 
Can you please site your source for 900A and 1mw? The only thing I have seen is “expected to be 350kw”.
Yes.

Better link: Tesla confirms its Supercharger is way more powerful than previously thought

"Tesla has successfully operated the North American Charging Standard above 900A continuously with a non-liquid cooled vehicle inlet."

"With more than a decade of use and 20 billion EV charging miles to its name, the Tesla charging connector is the most proven in North America, offering AC charging and up to 1 MW DC charging in one slim package. It has no moving parts, is half the size, and twice as powerful as Combined Charging System (CCS) connectors."
 
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Interesting. Jaan seems to agree with me about the V4 Superchargers. Again, the V4 Superchargers ARE the Megachargers.



Charging

To charge the Semi, Tesla developed a MegaWatt-class charger (V4), which has a liquid-cooled cable, as the high voltage conductors are immersed in coolant return tubes:
 
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Tesla V4 Supercharger design confirmed: Megacharger look-alike​

July 19, 2022 Darryn John Supercharger 0 Comments
v4 supercharger



v4 vs megacharger

V4 Supercharger (L), Megacharger (R)
 
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The slide says 1MW+. So they allude to more than a MW. They just didn't provide many details. But we can figure it out from what they have said.

  • Elon said the truck is 1.7kWh per mile.
  • 500 mile range means the battery is ~850kWh.
  • The site says "Recover up to 70 percent of range in 30 minutes using Tesla’s Semi Chargers."
  • You have to be able to charge 350 miles, or 595 kWh, in 30 minutes.
  • That means that it has to average 1.2MW over the 30 minute 70% charge.
It seems highly unlikely that it will hold 1.2MW for 30 minutes, so it is likely to start at ~1.6MW and ramp down as the SoC increases.

Of course that claim is for when charging a "Semi Charger", not at a Supercharger.

tl;dr: With what they have shared 1MW would not meet the claims that they have made. (It would only give you ~290 miles of range in 30 minutes, or a ~58% charge, and that is if it held 1MW for the entire 30 minutes.)
Nice work here, You are on it but a few tweaks if you please. The Battery is more than 850kWh, likely closer to 950. There was more before and after the trip. The charge rate will start between 2MW and 3MW using the MW Charger (Semi Charger) and taper as you stated. This is a commercial application and taper is good for the long term battery health and will be maximized. As Tesla's first new connector in a few years you can bet the engineering team has some serious specs for this including some headroom for future increases in volts and amps to be announced as time goes on. (like the V1,V2,V3,V4 progression) There is no way it is 1MW, it is "MW" but the thunder will be how many... We shall see...
 
Interesting. Jaan seems to agree with me about the V4 Superchargers. Again, the V4 Superchargers ARE the Megachargers.



Charging

To charge the Semi, Tesla developed a MegaWatt-class charger (V4), which has a liquid-cooled cable, as the high voltage conductors are immersed in coolant return tubes:
If they were the same why would they show the new connector installed at Frito-Lay shipping dock and how will they get to a high enough charge rate to replenish 70% in 30 min. V4 is a different connector than the MW Semi charger connector. The Semi charger will be 2-3 MW and will be increased from there over time. The Semi will charge at a V4 for emergency use with a passive adapter in my opinion. we will see soon.
 
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MP3Mike

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Feb 1, 2016
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Nice work here, You are on it but a few tweaks if you please. The Battery is more than 850kWh, likely closer to 950. There was more before and after the trip.
You are making the assumption that the 1.7kWh/mile Elon stated was for the sample trip. We don't know that that is the case.

My guess is that the 1.7kWh/mile figure that Elon gave us is the average when loaded and how they calculate the rated 500 mile range.

Due to traffic/wind/speed/etc. the consumption could have been lower on their sample run, maybe it was only 1.55kWh/mile for their sample trip... (Why there was energy left in the battery after 500 miles.)

As Tesla's first new connector in a few years you can bet the engineering team has some serious specs for this including some headroom for future increases in volts and amps to be announced as time goes on.

My guess is the Semi will use the MCS connector. Which Tesla helped design, but is an industry standard.
 

Rocky_H

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Feb 19, 2015
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My guess is the Semi will use the MCS connector. Which Tesla helped design, but is an industry standard.
The Megachargers Tesla put in at the Frito-Lay site do have the MCS connector, but a slightly older version of it, V2.


It is not the newest version, which has the triangle shape. Apparently that new version is not quite finalized yet. You can see both versions in this Wiki article on MCS.

 
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MP3Mike

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Feb 1, 2016
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The Megachargers Tesla put in at the Frito-Lay site do have the MCS connector, but a slightly older version of it, V2.


It is not the newest version, which has the triangle shape. Apparently that new version is not quite finalized yet. You can see both versions in this Wiki article on MCS.

While the final specs aren't due until 2024, I'm pretty sure the triangular connector is finalized, and they have already started installations of it. They had a testing event a little bit ago in Portland, OR where there is a MCS charger installed: CharIN Launches Megawatt Charging System (MCS) In North America

They showed the inlet side of the connector:
1670515620701.png


I wouldn't be surprised if the Frito-Lay site has already had the cables replaced with the new connector.
 
My guess is the Semi will use the MCS connector. Which Tesla helped design, but is an industry standard.

Tesla appeared to recently change their mind and published their connector as the NACS standard much to the dismay of their fellow CharIn members, maybe they changed their minds on MCS too? Having said that it appears that MCS is capable of at least twice and maybe 3 times the power of NACS, which according to some of the above analysis would be required by Semi. As mentioned we have to distinguish between voltage levels and signaling from physical connectors. Sure Cybertruck can accept the same 1000V as Semi but it could be delivered via NACS and MCS consecutively and Semi could still get a good charge at V4 with an adapter as Ericna suggests.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,445
51,938
Oregon
Tesla appeared to recently change their mind and published their connector as the NACS standard much to the dismay of their fellow CharIn members, maybe they changed their minds on MCS too?
Highly unlikely.

Sure Cybertruck can accept the same 1000V as Semi but it could be delivered via NACS and MCS consecutively and Semi could still get a good charge at V4 with an adapter as Ericna suggests.

One thing about MCS is that it is for DC charging only. If you want AC charging you would need to have a J-1772, NACS, or Type 2 inlet as well. So, I expect the Semi to have both MCS and NACS inlets, so no adapter should be needed to use a Supercharger. (Not that that is going to be a normal way a Tesla Semi charges, it may even be discouraged because of space constraints.
 
Event was pretty disappointing, imo.

-No mention of price
-No mention of weight, which of course, impacts how much each semi can haul in cargo
-No mention of Autopilot (which is supposed to be standard) or FSD -> convoy tech Elon said could be performed "now" in 2017 at 10x safer than a human
-No mention of 4680s being used
-No mention of dropping from quad motor to tri motor
-No mention of 1m mile guarantee
-No mention of pre-emptive diagnostics
-No mention of automatically alerting safety authorities when needed or if driver is unresponsive

But we did hear about the cup holders they tested, wireless charging, and ability to change in the cab if the driver gets dirty.

So much hype and promise at the event in 2017, but the delivery event seemed to fall kind of flat. We don't know if the promises from 2017 are being kept (we know a couple have been downgraded -> the number of motors and the miles gained charging in 30 mins). We didn't even get the number of Semis that were delivered to Pepsi/Frito-Lay or when the next customers can expect theirs.
 
One thing about MCS is that it is for DC charging only. If you want AC charging you would need to have a J-1772, NACS, or Type 2 inlet as well.

Interesting to know though with such a large battery even the strongest 20kw Level 2 chargers would only get it about 1/4 full in 12 hours overnight. With the current Tesla Wall connector you get 11.5kw so only add about 70 miles of range overnight and your typical public 24A Chargepoint half of that, so will Tesla even bother with AC charging? I guess it could be used like shore power on a boat or RV to keep the heat and lights on overnight, though there is no sleeper version of Semi.
 
-No mention of dropping from quad motor to tri motor
I thought that was interesting too. Adding a clutch for the second and third motors flies in face of Elon's "the best part is no part" guideline, which implies Tesla really prioritized efficiency to make the range goal with a manageable battery.

As many here know, permanent magnet motors are more efficient than induction but can not coast/freewheel and their analysis must have shown there was sufficient benefit to running one motor at higher power than multiple at low to justify the additional cost and complexity of the clutch.
 

MP3Mike

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Feb 1, 2016
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Oregon
The V4 Superchargers WILL fit the Tesla Semi charging port. This is where your confusion lies.

Here is a capture from a drone video of a Megacharger install, where a Semi is actually plugged in:

1671129963927.png


That pretty much shows us that a Semi will never be able to use a standard Supercharger installation, as even with the longer cable on the V4 chargers it just wouldn't reach the middle of the truck where the inlet is. (At least not without blocking 4+ stalls by parking sideways across the stalls.)
 
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