Tesla Software updates - Australia

[moa999]

There's a few different stratifications of Tesla markets in terms of software rollout
US - home market. Gets everything. Only one with FSD beta
China - secondary plant. Different map and software integrations
Canada - surprisingly a bit behind US on most things
Europe - still LHD and another plant. Common road signs and main CCS2 market. Test market for all access superchargers.
UK - main RHD market.
Then pretty much everyone else.

 

[cafz]

Any idea why we haven't got it yet?

Probably their agreement for the data SIMs doesn't envision uploading giant videos from the cars on a regular basis.

 

[Chuq]

Probably their agreement for the data SIMs doesn't envision uploading giant videos from the cars on a regular basis.

There’s plenty of other content which only uploads/downloads when on wifi though. They could do the same thing with FSD feedback?

 

[moa999]

Personally I struggle to see many use cases, other than showoff purposes.
If my alarm goes off I'm going to go out to the car rather than look at footage which may or may not show something.

That said there have been lots of rumours and not a lot of facts. Best I've read is regarding Australia's CCTV laws which are frankly lacking and vary by state, but often come back to an expectation of privacy and certain exceptions.

 

[Priit]

Personally I struggle to see many use cases, other than showoff purposes.
If my alarm goes off I'm going to go out to the car rather than look at footage which may or may not show something.

That said there have been lots of rumours and not a lot of facts. Best I've read is regarding Australia's CCTV laws which are frankly lacking and vary by state, but often come back to an expectation of privacy and certain exceptions.

As for use cases, its not often but happens when it would be useful. At work our parking areas are about 5-10 ,minute walk from the offices and earlier this year with massive rains the did get flooded, so would have been useful to be able to check hourly if the water was reaching car or not instead of having to take a 10-20 minute break to walk there in rain and back. only to end up in 5cm deep water around the car before leaving and getting feet rather wet.

I dont see the relevance for this feature for the CCTV laws, as the feature to have the cameras on and recording is already active on cars, so ability to see it on the phone app should not make a difference as you can see it in car or later at home anyways from USB drive. If CCTV laws would prohibit it, those laws would prohibit sentry mode also.

 

[Vostok]

I suspect @cafz is on the right track. The deals large corporate customers get on IoT SIMs would be related to how much aggregate data volume they expect every month (upload plus download). Go over that, and there’s probably hefty excess charges.

Without Premium connectivity, SIM data in a Tesla (i.e. car is not on WiFi) is the bare minimum - comms with the car to wake it and get its current status with limited controls, notifications about new software downloads, and downloading only “critical” software updates over the mobile network. Whatever dollar amount Tesla pays Telstra for that, Tesla are absorbing.

Premium connectivity adds additional data load which is why you pay $10/mo for it - Tesla isn’t prepared to absorb that cost. I suspect remote viewing of Sentry video would be data load above whatever amount Tesla negotiated for Premium. So Tesla could potentially negotiate a “Premium+” connectivity package which costs even more to add Sentry video, or just not offer it.

Or I could be wrong and that’s not the reason at all

 

[Chuq]

There’s plenty of other content which only uploads/downloads when on wifi though. They could do the same thing with FSD feedback?

It's only when reading @Vostok's post that I realised I was on a complete different wavelength. Talking about FSD training data and not live sentry mode at all. @cafz post makes perfect sense!

 

[Priit]

I suspect @cafz is on the right track. The deals large corporate customers get on IoT SIMs would be related to how much aggregate data volume they expect every month (upload plus download). Go over that, and there’s probably hefty excess charges.

Without Premium connectivity, SIM data in a Tesla (i.e. car is not on WiFi) is the bare minimum - comms with the car to wake it and get its current status with limited controls, notifications about new software downloads, and downloading only “critical” software updates over the mobile network. Whatever dollar amount Tesla pays Telstra for that, Tesla are absorbing.

Premium connectivity adds additional data load which is why you pay $10/mo for it - Tesla isn’t prepared to absorb that cost. I suspect remote viewing of Sentry video would be data load above whatever amount Tesla negotiated for Premium. So Tesla could potentially negotiate a “Premium+” connectivity package which costs even more to add Sentry video, or just not offer it.

Or I could be wrong and that’s not the reason at all

Since the start of the premium connectivity option on Tesla in Australia, there has been a massive increase in the included data allocations to all other phone plans. My Telstra plan in 2019 had 15GB data per month included and the same plan now has 40GB included, I wonder if Tesla is waiting for the inclusion in their specific plan to increase also, though as previously noted the occasions where one would use that remote viewing would be rare. Tesla would have statistics on that from the markets where its enabled, so overall data usage growth over the fleet would be tiny. I suspect the Netflix, Spotify, streaming radio and video services and other services would still be the majority of data usage on that plan.

 

[cafz]

I suspect the Netflix, Spotify, streaming radio and video services and other services would still be the majority of data usage on that plan.

Upload bandwidth is far more scarce than download (and hence more costly to use), because the mobile networks are built that way, since that's how most people use their mobile terminals.

 

[Candleflame]

Since the start of the premium connectivity option on Tesla in Australia, there has been a massive increase in the included data allocations to all other phone plans. My Telstra plan in 2019 had 15GB data per month included and the same plan now has 40GB included, I wonder if Tesla is waiting for the inclusion in their specific plan to increase also, though as previously noted the occasions where one would use that remote viewing would be rare. Tesla would have statistics on that from the markets where its enabled, so overall data usage growth over the fleet would be tiny. I suspect the Netflix, Spotify, streaming radio and video services and other services would still be the majority of data usage on that plan.

So a) you are completely correct that since 2019 or so australia has moved with the times and data has been much much cheaper. Like in the uk unlimited data has been standard since 2011 or so but its now coming in aus too. My old 4gb tarriff for my phone is like 25gb now just to put it in perspective.

However... B) in australia we already pay 50% of what everyone else pays for premium connectivity. I think this was due to a misunderstanding with elon musk over twitter where he thought the usd equals the aud.

So even countries with laughably cheap data (i.e. Uk and usa) pay more for connectivity than countries with historically expensive data (australia, germany etc)

 

[Priit]

Upload bandwidth is far more scarce than download (and hence more costly to use), because the mobile networks are built that way, since that's how most people use their mobile terminals.

I would argue that on my mobile phone uplink is used more than downlink, as it does auto sync all videos and photos to both my google drive and OneDrive, yet I never use my phone to watch YouTube or other videos. Looking at my usage graph on Telstra website I average between 3-4GB actual usage monthly and close to 2GB of that is uploads of pictures and video taken by my phone of my kid.
I know I might not be the average user on that, but from technology point they can configure uploads and downloads to run same speeds if they want, they just have chosen to give more bandwidth to downloads as overall usage leans that way but the combined throughput capacity on the hardware is the same regardless if they configure it to run symmetric uploads and downloads or asymmetric leaning towards downloads.
Most telcos are now also selling data plans to compete with home broadband links with no data limits or limits in TB ranges, so mobile data is not that expensive even for uploads.

 

[moa999]

I dont see the relevance for this feature for the CCTV laws, as the feature to have the cameras on and recording is already active on cars, so ability to see it on the phone app should not make a difference as you can see it in car or later at home anyways from USB drive. If CCTV laws would prohibit it, those laws would prohibit sentry mode also.

While the car is always monitoring - it only records if it detects an event - so arguably being done only for protection of property.

Very different if you position the car so the cameras see an area where people may have an expectation of privacy, and can effectively watch it 24/7.

As for the Telstra IoT stuff, I don't think anyone has access to the Tesla-Telstra contract so it's all speculation.

 

[Priit]

While the car is always monitoring - it only records if it detects an event - so arguably being done only for protection of property.

Very different if you position the car so the cameras see an area where people may have an expectation of privacy, and can effectively watch it 24/7.

As for the Telstra IoT stuff, I don't think anyone has access to the Tesla-Telstra contract so it's all speculation.

Yet, there is no regulation saying that I cannot purchase a 3rd party dashcam, put it on my car window, park that car wherever cars are allowed to park and have it continuously recording.

 

[moa999]

Yet, there is no regulation saying that I cannot purchase a 3rd party dashcam, put it on my car window, park that car wherever cars are allowed to park and have it continuously recording.

As I said the law is very messy in Australia and not particularly clear, with interactions of Privacy Acts and state Surveillance/Listening Devices Acts.
I'd very much doubt you'd get a lawyer to say parking in front of a school, a playground or your ex's house with a 3rd party dashcam is legal either.

It's also an area where you could quickly get some very negative publicity so suspect Tesla is being cautious. They have enough publicity issues with Autopilot.

 

[brainrevisited]

downloading only “critical” software updates over the mobile network

I'd love for Premium Connectivity to allow updates over LTE. As of now, the value proposition is pretty bad, and it would be great for folks like me that park in a basement without WiFi.

 

[Priit]

I suspect @cafz is on the right track. The deals large corporate customers get on IoT SIMs would be related to how much aggregate data volume they expect every month (upload plus download). Go over that, and there’s probably hefty excess charges.

Without Premium connectivity, SIM data in a Tesla (i.e. car is not on WiFi) is the bare minimum - comms with the car to wake it and get its current status with limited controls, notifications about new software downloads, and downloading only “critical” software updates over the mobile network. Whatever dollar amount Tesla pays Telstra for that, Tesla are absorbing.

Premium connectivity adds additional data load which is why you pay $10/mo for it - Tesla isn’t prepared to absorb that cost. I suspect remote viewing of Sentry video would be data load above whatever amount Tesla negotiated for Premium. So Tesla could potentially negotiate a “Premium+” connectivity package which costs even more to add Sentry video, or just not offer it.

Or I could be wrong and that’s not the reason at all

Looks like Tesla got your message and has put in place a mechanism to stop absorbing that standard connectivity cost after a few years on cars purchased after 20/7/20222:

New Tesla orders no longer include Standard Connectivity for life

Tesla's Standard Connectivity feature will now expire after eight years of ownership. It affects orders placed after July 20, 2022.

www.teslarati.com

 

[Vostok]

Looks like Tesla got your message and has put in place a mechanism to stop absorbing that standard connectivity cost after a few years on cars purchased after 20/7/20222:

I didn’t know about this … honest!

Standard connectivity for 8 years is pretty good though. It is unclear if this only affects the USA at present, but what happens there soon happens here (Exhibit A: UMC no longer standard). I wonder which bits of the nav would stop working without mobile data? Maps are downloaded when on WiFi, GPS is receive-only and requires no subscription…

 

[doggy1]

I wonder which bits of the nav would stop working without mobile data?

Traffic jams and road closures perhaps.

 

[RichardV]

I didn’t know about this … honest!

Standard connectivity for 8 years is pretty good though. It is unclear if this only affects the USA at present, but what happens there soon happens here (Exhibit A: UMC no longer standard). I wonder which bits of the nav would stop working without mobile data? Maps are downloaded when on WiFi, GPS is receive-only and requires no subscription…

Although you don't get the green/red/orange bars on the road indicating current traffic conditions navigation does take into account current traffic conditions. So currently with standard connectivity mobile data is used for routing including time of arrival. I was thinking the other day, 'Silly tesla why are you routing me through there, it is much more direct if I go this way.' Road was closed due to flood water. Will also affect supercharger selections, when we have enough, based on charger availablity and presumably battery on arrival based on weather conditions.

 

[Wol747]

>>I wonder which bits of the nav would stop working without mobile data? <<

Voice commands? Not that I use them.