So, does this mean we now have to run CARFAX-like searches on ANY new car we may buy? I guess, back in the day, ignorance was bliss. Good luck OP.
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BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
IMO Tesla is in the wrong regardless of numbers, percentages, legal requirements, etc. Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's right.
The intent for the "disclosure not required" is for minor scratches, door dings, cut tires, rock chips in windshields - normal "it happens" type of things that can occur during transport. Not things like the car falling off the truck or some asshat driving it into a wall.
I don't mean the car should never be sold. But if it was wrecked, sell it as used and knock $10K or some other reasonable amount (depending on the extent of the damage) from the price and disclose the extent of the damages. Someone will still want it.
The intent for the "disclosure not required" is for minor scratches, door dings, cut tires, rock chips in windshields - normal "it happens" type of things that can occur during transport. Not things like the car falling off the truck or some asshat driving it into a wall.
I don't mean the car should never be sold. But if it was wrecked, sell it as used and knock $10K or some other reasonable amount (depending on the extent of the damage) from the price and disclose the extent of the damages. Someone will still want it.
That is lesson I learned so far from this. Unless it has 0.00 miles on it, I will probably run a Carfax/Autocheck on it. I am naturally an optimistic person so to me it is very possible no one at Tesla intentionally did this, perhaps there was miscommunication internally or a breakdown of logistics. I have gotten a lot of, "I would never buy another Tesla again" comments from family/friends/coworkers I have told, but I am not naïve to the fact that this could potentially happen or has happened with every other Automaker.
Tesla in my opinion makes a superior vehicle to any other I have seen, however they are still a fairly new company relative to the auto industry compared to Ford/GM. Even though Tesla makes far better vehicles, there is the whole other side of being an auto manufacturer where they are still growing and learning. Especially as it relates to customer service, resolution management, etc.. Ford, GM, etc. have been around over a century and have had time to iron out all of the kinks in their processes in that side of their business.
Another part of it is I live in the suburbs of Houston where it is upwards of 70% conservative folks. Owning a Tesla out here is kind of wild. It is not uncommon to be driving down the road and have someone for no reason just flip my the bird in a jacked up pick up truck, or if I stop at a corner store getting some nasty political comments. So owning a Tesla here is almost like I have to defend my purchase to people, which I think leads to my patience in having them resolve this issue because I am "bought in". However, loyalty only goes so far.
I understand things happen, but they have an opportunity to fix it and still have a happy customer.
Wait, not to go too far into the o/t, but...what? Do you mean "superior ELECTRIC vehicles"?
Golf8621204
Member
It is completely normal for a brand new vehicle to have an average of about 5 miles on it at delivery. The odometer will never say 0. I worked for one of the Big 3 in QC/inspection. Long story short: Car driven off the line to DVT (Dynamic Vehicle Testing). Roll test to about 60MPH on a dyno test to ensure all systems pass are operating normal. Up to 1-2 miles is accumulated. Then suspension and alignment is checked and set nearby. Driven to quality area on another line. If it passes final inspection, it will then be driven out to staging area awaiting shipping. Depending on the manufacturer, all or some cars are put in a water test to check for leaks. To/from and On/Off the car carrier/train, etc. add another 1-2. If you have more than 5 miles, it may have not passed all QC checks on the first go-around and had to be driven to be repaired, then re-inspected, then parked in the staging area, adding mileage. Anything more than 10, your car was likely randomly given a road test at the test track at the factory, test driven by a customer already (non Tesla's), or was a real lemon going through production. The higher the odometer, the more meticulous you need to be, although under 10 miles everything likely is OK.
Yeah so here is where it stands right now. Tesla got back to me and admitted that the car was indeed wrecked and the only reason it is showing up on the Carfax is because the test driver had to file an insurance claim because they could not cover the damage. They told me normally Tesla would just fix it and no one would know about it so the value would have been normal. They also confirmed that I did not sign a damage disclosure form. I let them know I wanted the market value for my vehicle had it not been wrecked (46-50k), in addition to my taxes I paid for the vehicle. I also let them know I wanted to get a Model Y. So they came back and have offered to buy my car back from me for the original amount I paid (42k). Then they I can go place an order for a 2022 Model 3 online with whatever options I like and they would give me the price it was last year for the same vehicle. Problem is I want a Model Y, but they told me they cannot let me purchase a Model Y for something to the effect of "accounting, bookkeeping reasons".
So now I am in kind of a pickle. If I agree to buy the 2022 Model 3 for $39,990, I would have to pay the taxes on that vehicle which in Texas is about $2,000, bringing the total to ~42k. The Carvana/Vroom sites are offering $49,900. Which would net me roughly 8k. However, I would have to go through the process of waiting on delivery for the Model 3, then waiting another 2 weeks for the paperwork to be able to pay the taxes (that I have to come out of pocket another 2k on) before I sell it. After all that I would be able to put it down on the Model Y.
I will say, the employee that called me first has been the one that I have talked to the entire time and he has been fantastic to work with. He has told me that he kept pushing to just take money off the Model Y because it is just a much easier process. Said he was told no a couple of times so he kept going higher and asking. He said he asked all the way up to 2 people below Elon. Obviously it could be made up but he does genuinely trying to help me. He also said that they would rush the new Model 3 to where it would only be 1-2 weeks, in addition to bumping the Model Y delivery time as well.
On one hand I feel like I get my $8k in market value but in a real inconvenienced way, but it resolves the situation. On the other hand, they have admitted that they sold me a wrecked car that they did not tell me about which is fraud lol. Now, to what level of fraud that is and how much leverage I actually have from a legal standpoint I do not know. Is taking the 2022 Model 3 and flipping it for 8k profit the biggest way of squeezing as much juice out of the lemon (pun intended) as possible? What do you guys think?
Ugggghhh, what a tough situation. I am happy Tesla at least offered a solution but on the other hand WTF. You are telling me there are some who are probably rolling around in repaired “new” Teslas?
Personally, I would not go the legal route if all I wanted was the market value. I would order the Model 3 at the same time as a Model Y. Get the 3, flip it and then get the Y.
The big problem for you right now is this $7500 POS discount. Will the used market keep paying these crazy prices especially with gas prices starting to plummet.
wiltoking
Member
Take the Model 3, flip it and get the Model Y quickly with the help of their good will. I think it's a win-win.
pl8dlikafiddle
Member
Tesla is willing to replace your $39,990 Model 3 (that you've been driving for X months and X miles) with a brand new Model 3. Depreciation over the ownership span will be wiped clean, and you gain the difference in value of the car.
Like many here - I'd take the new Model 3. You walk away having driven a 2021 Model 3 for free (minus energy costs) and you gain the market value of the new car, less taxes paid. You can either choose to flip the car and get into a more expensive Model Y, or enjoy your new Model 3.
Could it have gone better for you? Sure...but what Tesla offered you isn't a bad deal, and is a reasonable one - they are replacing your car on their dime with an equivalent unit. You're coming out ahead here.
Like many here - I'd take the new Model 3. You walk away having driven a 2021 Model 3 for free (minus energy costs) and you gain the market value of the new car, less taxes paid. You can either choose to flip the car and get into a more expensive Model Y, or enjoy your new Model 3.
Could it have gone better for you? Sure...but what Tesla offered you isn't a bad deal, and is a reasonable one - they are replacing your car on their dime with an equivalent unit. You're coming out ahead here.
Yeah this is the way I am leaning as well. I just wanted to get as many eyes and opinions on it as possible. I guess I could order and take delivery of both. I wonder if Chase Bank would allow me to modify my loan once I got the check from my equity in the wrecked M3 and the sale of the 2022 M3. I have about 11k in equity from the buyback and then another 8k from the 2022 M3. If I went to Chase in a month and said I have 19k in cash, can I modify my loan to lower my payment $350-$400 per month?
After all this, leasing starts to make more sense to me now. Thank lord it was Tesla's fault but if I buy a Model Y and it is in an accident. The market value of ~75k would drop to probably 45-50k. With a lease I would not have to worry about the diminished value. Now if it is the other parties fault, I can probably go after them for diminished value but if it were somehow my fault...I am out 25k of value. I wish insurance companies sold diminished value insurance in case it is my fault lol.
Unless you are buying with the mind of selling in 2-3 years, leasing doesn't make AS much sense in Texas. We have to pay the sales tax for the entire transaction, vs just the value of the vehicle used. PLUS Tesla leases don't save you much, if anything at all, vs a loan. So after 3 years, you have spend X dollars with nothing to show for. Even a wrecked Tesla with diminished value is probably worth more because, well it's yours. How many times have you gotten in an accident in the past 10 years? To go into a poor value lease because of something that MIGHT happen, is not really the best choice IMO. Additionally, if the used value of Tesla continues to stay high (because of price increases, etc), if you lease, Tesla isn't going to give you that extra money in a lease return. Now if you crash on average once a year or something like that, then, ok... I get your point.
.My understanding is that the leasing company can hold you responsible for the diminished value. (Just like they can hold you responsible for scratches, dents, etc.)
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
As others point out, this seems like pretty much the best possible outcome they can get you. Basically they made you whole again on a new Model 3 (which is likely worth more than your original), and although it would be easier for you just to get a discount on the Model Y, I can also understand why they don't want to do that (does not directly clear out the issue with the Model 3).
The only gamble is if used car value craters before you take delivery of the Model 3 and flip it, but it sounds like they are willing to expedite it for you given your special case. Them willing to bump up your Model Y delivery also is just even better.
You could push the fraud angle on principle, but be prepared to waste a lot more time and energy on this and not necessarily get a much better deal. It sounds like the thing getting reported to Carfax was just an unfortunate part of the circumstances (test driver insurance).
As always none of us here are offering true legal advice, just common sense, but you can always consult a lawyer to see if you are entitled to more.
I think the fact the rep is either unaware of laws surrounding new cars and damage prior to being sold or admitting Tesla doesn't report damage as per some state laws is a bigger deal here that shouldn't be ignored.
I saw this disclosure when shopping around on teslas site. Shoulda been something they posted on the site but didn’t.
If it was me…I would take their offer but again everything depends on your personal situation. I would go Y though….more cargo room
Now this might be an option. Take the model 3 from Tesla. Brand new. Then immediately go and trade it somewhere that has a Y. You should be able to net gain without waiting for a Y but having a brand new 3 which should be in your possession immediately…I hope. Taxes should be a wash.
If it was me…I would take their offer but again everything depends on your personal situation. I would go Y though….more cargo room
Now this might be an option. Take the model 3 from Tesla. Brand new. Then immediately go and trade it somewhere that has a Y. You should be able to net gain without waiting for a Y but having a brand new 3 which should be in your possession immediately…I hope. Taxes should be a wash.
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Do you have to pay the full taxes up front on the lease as well in Texas? I was under the impression the Sales Tax on a lease is factored into the lease price. The reason I was going to go with the lease and put $11,440 down and pay $745 per month, while putting $8,500 in investments. If I end up with 20k from my positive equity and buying flipping new Model 3, I made a little chart with what it would look like. My current payment is $591. Any loan that I do would be a $400 increase per month in addition to coming $4,500 in cash for taxes when a lease it is factored into the lease payment. Thats when the wife enters the chat lol. I just don't see another path to buying the Model Y without paying 1k per month. What would you guys do?Unless you are buying with the mind of selling in 2-3 years, leasing doesn't make AS much sense in Texas. We have to pay the sales tax for the entire transaction, vs just the value of the vehicle used. PLUS Tesla leases don't save you much, if anything at all, vs a loan. So after 3 years, you have spend X dollars with nothing to show for. Even a wrecked Tesla with diminished value is probably worth more because, well it's yours. How many times have you gotten in an accident in the past 10 years? To go into a poor value lease because of something that MIGHT happen, is not really the best choice IMO. Additionally, if the used value of Tesla continues to stay high (because of price increases, etc), if you lease, Tesla isn't going to give you that extra money in a lease return. Now if you crash on average once a year or something like that, then, ok... I get your point.
You don’t have to pay the tax upfront, but the tax is on the full price of the vehicle not portion based on the lease, the dollar amount is included in the lease payment calculation.
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