Tesla stock falls 7%

[kort677]

Bluntly, if one doesn't buy the Tesla mission one might as well read Montana Skeptic, even though said individual does serious disservice to skepticism.

I didn't by the "mission" I bought a car.
what publications I peruse and what my political sway is, is quite irrelevant.
only one side of the spectrum seems to think that being in lockstep is necessary, and IMHO they are the intolerant ones.

 

[kort677]

planning yes, but your planning is poorly executed. If I might be so bold as to suggest to you that you consider consulting with people who are professionals in the planning field before implementing any more of your financial planning.
as another responder noted you heaped some huge tax consequences onto your heirs with your "planning".
[I hope my grammar passes muster]

Mr Qbenjamin would you care to elaborate on the root of your posting a dislike for this comment?
is it factually inaccurate or is this of a personal nature?

 

[Qbenjamin]

I don't think that the majority of owners except for the most extreme really put such a high priority of the emissions aspect of the equation. For me the lack of directly using "gas" to power the car was at least secondary and lessening the environment impact ranked after that. most tesla buyers are buying into the "cool" factor.
as for the implications of removing incentives. the case in GA wasn't good. their road use fee is nothing less than onerous because it doesn't reflect reality and in the case of HK. the incentives amounted to almost 1/2 of the cost to the consumer of the car, so that impact was out sized and really wouldn't translate into the loss of the $7500 that in reality not every buyer could make use of.

Wow, I actually agree with you on something. The environmental impact was pretty low on my list when it came to selecting my S.

 

[T34ME]

You put your daughters names on the property? I had a client who did that, he had no idea what a step up in basis was. Unfortunately this left his kids with a $100,000 tax liability when they sold it.

True, but I didn't give you all the details, and I have it covered. But thanks for your concern.

 

[comanchepilot]

Yes, I'm aware of that. However Musk & Tesla fans have continued to insist that Tesla does not need the EV tax credit to thrive. We will soon find out it seems.

Yes, there is that, but perhaps it is also because Orange Hitler doesn't seem to have any legislative experience.

oh geeze - grow up

 

[jbcarioca]

I didn't by the "mission" I bought a car.
what publications I peruse and what my political sway is, is quite irrelevant.
only one side of the spectrum seems to think that being in lockstep is necessary, and IMHO they are the intolerant ones.

I repeat, buying TSLA shares is implicitly buying the mission, otherwise there are less difficult investment options.
Buying the car is likely to have little to do with the mission. We buy the cars because we like them.
Please remember this thread is about the share price, not car buying motivations, except to the extent that buying Tesla cars is motivated by tax benefits.
My stated opinion is that for TSLA purposes car purchase timing may well be motivated in part by tax benefits, but probably not purchase decisions.
OTOH, penalties for not buying BEV's or non-financial perks might well influence the purchase.
Have I suggested that anything I said was about why I or anybody else buys a Tesla? If I had suggested that we were anything other than mostly pretty well off people indulging in a pretty cool purchase I really apologize. I never intended to suggest otherwise. Considering the Tesla I own I'd be pretty delusional if I thought otherwise.

 

[kort677]

I repeat, buying TSLA shares is implicitly buying the mission,

maybe social justice causes drives your investment decisions, I put my money into investments with only one goal in mind which is to generate income and growth,

 

[jbcarioca]

maybe social justice causes drives your investment decisions, I put my money into investments with only one goal in mind which is to generate income and growth,

I'll keep trying to explain this because I don't find it easy to imagine we'd really disagree.

If one does not believe that moving to renewable sources of energy and non-ice vehicles is not the direction the bulk of the world markets are headed, then it follows logically that one does not think there is a bright future for a company built on that premise, as Tesla is.

Is that so hard to understand? We buy TSLA because we think the share price will rise. if we think the share price will rise we probably also think large world markets are headed towards requiring things like TSLA produces to be adopted more widely.

My shorthand was too state that is that one should buy into the Tesla mission to own the stock. If one does not buy the mission, one might deal in TSLA, probably as a short. That brought me back to the offering of a prominent bear.

Can you really disagree with that? This is enlightened self interest in my view.

FWIW the vast majority of my holdings are less speculative than is TSLA.
Social justice has nothing to do with this. I never remotely implied such a thing.

 

[dss33]

The length of time cannot be longer than 6 months. The full credit expires at the end of the quarter following the quarter that they hit 200K US sales in. So, even if they hit it on the first day of a quarter, the longest it could be is 6 months minus one day.

That's what I thought at first too. But, let's assume they don't hit 200k until 1 April. That means people are getting the full tax credit Jan, Feb, Mar, then Apr, May, Jun, and finally Jul, Aug, Sep. So in that very likely scenario, nine more months of the full tax credit. And actually 11 more months (from today) if you count Nov and Dec ;-)

Perhaps slightly more likely than not, the program goes away 1 Jan 2018 so only X, S, and a small number of 3 buyers actually get it anyway.

 

[LCR1]

Load up then. Borrow on your house and credit cards. Well at least the credit cards. Your probably a renter.

Isn't the mortgage credit only effecting homes in excess of 500K?

 

[Shygar]

Isn't the mortgage credit only effecting homes in excess of 500K?

That's the new proposal as of today. I think the current one is for 1 mil. And I think it's the mortgage value, not the home value.

 

[LCR1]

That's the new proposal as of today. I think the current one is for 1 mil. And I think it's the mortgage value, not the home value.

So if I have a home with a 600K mortgage I'd get to deduct interest on 500K of it? Seems fair. If this is about helping the middle class not many people in the middle class have homes over $500K. Only one state has an average home price over $500K and it's not Cali.

 

[kort677]

Isn't the mortgage credit only effecting homes in excess of 500K?

I believe that is what is being proposed

 

[Shygar]

So if I have a home with a 600K mortgage I'd get to deduct interest on 500K of it? Seems fair. If this is about helping the middle class not many people in the middle class have homes over $500K. Only one state has an average home price over $500K and it's not Cali.

That's my understanding and yea I agree it's fair in some ways. Biggest problem I see is places like the bay area where you can't buy a house for less than $600k in any condition. If someone is just barely able to afford it because they're counting on that full mortgage interest deduction, then they may be screwed. I heard somewhere it will be for new loans, but I really don't know.

 

[LCR1]

It's just one of those things that is going to have to suck for someone when you're trying to tax an entire country. Here's what 600K gets you around my area

1918 Lake Fountain Dr, Katy, TX 77494 | MLS #19640416 | Zillow

11110 Fm 1489 Rd, Wallis, TX 77485 | MLS #44855543 | Zillow


And back home

2304 Pirtle Dr, Salado, TX 76571 | MLS #327211 | Zillow

3380 County Road 211, Bertram, TX 78605 | MLS #8494543 | Zillow


No one around here feels sorry for people buying the above houses.


Here's what you get where family lives.

7209 Fermo Pl, Alta Loma, CA 91701 | MLS #PW17248186 | Zillow

This home it's harder to take a hit, but unfortunately you have to draw the line somewhere and the vast majority of homes aren't in areas like SoCal or the Bay. For the 10 million people complaining about the possible decrease to 500K there's 150 million happy for it.

 

[buttershrimp]

1 minute 05 seconds in the video, turn the volume up to 11

 

[buttershrimp]

Invoking Godwin's law on my post? That sure seems like something a Nazi would do

At least @DrivingRockies appreciates a good joke even if we have different political opinions...

 

[buttershrimp]

That's my understanding and yea I agree it's fair in some ways. Biggest problem I see is places like the bay area where you can't buy a house for less than $600k in any condition. If someone is just barely able to afford it because they're counting on that full mortgage interest deduction, then they may be screwed. I heard somewhere it will be for new loans, but I really don't know.

Does anyone else think that decreasing the deduction from 1 million to 500,000 would tank the economy? Can't imagine that not messing everything up if it was done instantly.

So many folks are strrrretching to pay that high end mortgage and to have the axe drop on deducting the interest on up to $500,000 would cause a lot of folks to stop spending. People probably don't depend on receiving an EV tax credit in the same way that they depend on being able to deduct that interest.

My thought is they'll have to really phase it slowly.... even if it clearly makes sense in the long run.

Is it just me or are these tax ideas impacting the middle class and lower upperclass folks without asking anything of the super wealthy? That's mind blowing to me. Off topic, yes, but mind blowing nonetheless. What the hell happened to moderates?

 

[LCR1]

Does anyone else think that decreasing the deduction from 1 million to 500,000 would tank the economy? Can't imagine that not messing everything up if it was done instantly.

So many folks are strrrretching to pay that high end mortgage and to have the axe drop on deducting the interest on up to $500,000 would cause a lot of folks to stop spending. People probably don't depend on receiving an EV tax credit in the same way that they depend on being able to deduct that interest.

My thought is they'll have to really phase it slowly.... even if it clearly makes sense in the long run.

Is it just me or are these tax ideas impacting the middle class and lower upperclass folks without asking anything of the super wealthy? That's mind blowing to me. Off topic, yes, but mind blowing nonetheless. What the hell happened to moderates?

Vast majority of people across the country live in homes under 500k

 

[buttershrimp]

You are obsessed with quotes. That is very telling. As is your comment about names you called Trump. I understand many folks don’t like the President. But to disrespect the office by calling him names like Hitler or similar is a disgrace. It is a slap in the face to our country and to those who served to give us the freedom to vote or not vote for a candidate. Shame on you.

Not to get all Godwinian on you guys, but Hitler also rose to power by being elected... I'll have to be satisfied with telling my children how I learned to respect Republicans by watching some of them (war hero John McCain even though he was captured) for calling out that god awful idiot.... how an evangelical can vote for him is beyond me.

Vast majority of people across the country live in homes under 500k

Absolutely, I understand that and I agree with your post.... no one is going to feel sorry for any of those individuals in that bracket.... But for the sake of my point, imagine what the effect would be on the economy if they eliminated the deduction for the individuals who owned less than 500k homes as well? Wouldn't that mess stuff up? I've always thought that deduction will need to go eventually, but doing it all at once? Very surprised it was put out there like that.

Final Though Before I get banished to snippiness....

In reasonable moderates I trust....